I've already shown you verses where Jesus proclaims that he will not judge those who do not believe him.

You spit in the face of Jesus and use the Bible as a battering ram to scrap up all the hateful verses that you possibly can muster.

You do this in general with everyone, not just with me.

You are a very hateful person who apparently loves to use Jesus as an excuse to spread hatred toward other people.

That's my perception of your behavior.

Like I say, I forgive you because you are probably somehow totally ignorant of what you do. If you are actually doing it purposefully and knowingly then you truly are a despicable person. That's all I have to say.

I just go by what the fables say Miles.

These fables have Jesus proclaiming that the path is straight and the gate is narrow that leads to the Kingdom of God and eternal life, and only FEW will make it.

Well, if only FEW will make it, that leaves the vast majority not making it.

It doesn't take differential calculus to figure that one one.

So this is Jesus' proclamation according to the fable.

Jesus also says that those who do not make it into eternal life will be sent into everlasting punishment.

So if Jesus is a man of his WORD, and the Bible is the WORD of Jesus and we are supposed to believe the WORD, then the WORD proclaims that the vast majority of people will be condemned into a state of everlasting punishment.

So I'm just going by what the fables claim Miles.

If the fables are false then I'm not surprised.

I figured that they were fables all along anyway.

I failed at nothing Cowboy.

There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that I should believe such nonsense.

Those ancient Hebrews did not conduct themselves in a way that merit belief. They were male-chauvinist pigs who proclaimed that God supported their male-chauvinism.

Today they would be viewed as the Taliban.

Would you TRUST the Taliban to speak for God?

I sure wouldn't.

There is absolutely no righteous reason why I should believe anything those ancient Hebrews had to say. They were clearly a sick demented society.

If you believe their hateful bigotry represents the "Word of God" then that's your naive failings.

Not mine.

Apparently you do believe that God is as sick and demented as those ancient Hebrews.

I see no reason to believe that the creator of humanity could be that sick and perverted.

Evidently you don't hold such high standards for what you expect God to be like. You'll apparently accept the claims of a sick perverted society like the Taliban, simply because they claim to speak for God.

How naive is that?

If Hitler claimed to be God's Son would you believe that too?

Apparently all he would need to tell you is that God confirmed this by speaking from a cloud and you'd be convinced.



I realize that some people are easily led, but gee whiz Cowboy there comes a time when you need to actually think for yourself once in a while and question these claims from perverts.

If there is only one God then it isn't possible to worship other gods because other gods don't exist.

Therefore the Canaanites could not have been worshiping a 'false' God.

If they were sacrificing their babies to God it had to be this God.

Because according to you, there are no other Gods.

Clearly the Canaanites were attempting to worship "GOD".

So to claim that they refused to worship "GOD" is nonsense.

If they got it all wrong, that could only have been Gods's fault for not clarifying to them what he expected from them.

If they were sacrificing their babies to HIM (which they had to have been doing if he's the ONLY God), then it would be up to HIM to appear before them in person and say, "No, that's not what I want".

If he failed to do that, then he was allowing them to believe that they were worshiping HIM (i.e. their creator and the ONLY God that exists), and allowing them to go about it all wrong.

So that whole deal with the Canaanites would be entirely God's fault for not stepping up to the plate and making it known that he did not want babies to be sacrificed to him.

So the fables themselves are a gross contradiction concerning the behavior of this supposed single God who is jealous of himself.

If I attempt to worship the CREATOR of this universe and He FAILS to show up, then that's HIS FAULT and no one Else's.

Actually this first commandment clearly shows that these commandments were not written by any God at all.

These were clearly the made-up commandments of a society that was trying to build a religion that would trump the religion of their neighbors.

That's what these cultures in the Mediterranean region did.

The Greeks had Zeus as "The God of Gods".

So the Hebrews created Yahweh, and have him proclaiming that no other God's shall be placed before him.

This is what these people did back then. They were all trying to create a religion with a God that was more important than their neighbor's Gods.

That's precisely why this is written like this and tells us clearly that these things were indeed written by men.

No real God would have commanded such a foolish thing. Especially if it was the only God that existed. It would have been utterly stupid to demand that no other Gods be placed before it if there are no other Gods.

An all wise God would have just stated. I am the only God there is.

So we caught the mortal men in their lies right in the Ten Commandments themselves.

Truly,

All the different denominations of Christianity prove that the no one can agree on what the "laws" of God are.

In fact, if they were that clear everyone would still be Catholic and there would be no protesting Protestants.

Protestants have protested against Catholicism because they disagreed with the Pope's interpretation of what "God's Laws" are.

The Jews disagree that Jesus was the messiah.

The Muslims believe that Mohammad was the last prophet of God and therefore has the "Last Word".

~~~~

When I read the Bible seeking to understand "God's Laws" it instantly becomes crystal clear to me that there isn't any reason to believe those foolish fables have anything to do with any God.

It's crystal clear to me that they are nothing more than the opinions of men. Often times expressing highly bigoted and ignorant views, not the least of which is to support male chauvinism which I doubt any genuine God would support.

These fables also contain many threats of spiritual terrorism toward anyone who refuses to cower down to them. I don't see how a supposedly "all-wise" God could possibly use such an ignorant tactic.

That's the kind of tactic I would expects from mentally sick mortal men like Hitler, etc.

So if you ask me to read the Bible in search of "God's Laws" my answer is that I already have read it and I conclude that that it doesn't contain anything from God. Much less any "laws" from God.

Even the rumors in the New Testament clearly show that even Jesus rejected the teachings of the Torah as being immoral and ungodly.

It's crystal clear to me that Jesus rejected the Torah and instead taught the far higher moral values of Buddhism.

So if I get any "laws" from the Bible it would be the teachings of Jesus which are basically to reject the Hebrew fables and try to live up to the moral standards taught by Buddha instead.

I guess so.

If you don't believe in the creator of the natural world and all the mystical magical things in it, then you must believe in a different God than I do.

In fact, I say this quite often. I worship the creator of this universe. Therefore I can't be wrong. I don't pretend to name it or proclaim what it is like. Much less tell other people that it will hate them if they refuse to accept my personal understanding of it.

It seems to me that only the Abrahamic religions are the ones that try to copyright God and take ownership of God and proclaim to everyone else who God will like and who God will hate.

Well, there may be other religions that have tried to do that too, like possibly Greek mythology (back when it was still viewed as an actual religion) I think they tried to proclaim who Zeus might like or not like too.

But no, I don't believe in those fictitious fables of jealous personified gods that have been created by men and used for spiritual terrorism.

I don't need any mortal man's permission to get along with God.

I get along with God quite well. God and I are best friends.

It's people like Cowboy who pass judgments on my relationship with God that I don't get along with very well.

Cowboy is a troublemaker. He goes around trying to convince people that God will hate them through Jesus as the Christ if they refuse to accept Cowboy's gloomy interpretations of Hebrew dogma.

I forgive him though because he knows not what he does.

I agree with Jesus on that point. It would be foolish to condemn people for doing wrongful things when they have no clue that what they are doing is indeed wrong.

I still find it frustrating and ignorant that Cowboy continues to do this. I'd think he should know better by now, but I allow for the possibility that he truly is ignorant of his wrongdoing.

It's a shame that he makes Jesus out to be such a Jerk.

For someone who claims to love Jesus he sure doesn't act like it.

Even if Jesus was a Bodhisattva who had taken on disciples, it still wouldn't be right for them to make things up about him.

These rumors don't even claim that Jesus actually claimed to be the only begotten son of God.

On the contrary, they claim that Jesus' actual claim was that he and the Father are ONE!

So these rumors aren't even consistent within their own claims.

Is a punishment to the entire world.

You confess this yourself.

Yet you had just proclaimed:


But that can't be true because women still suffer in painful childbirth. If we had been forgiven that sin we would no longer be punished for it.

So your interpretations of these fables doesn't hold water.

The man that sparked the rumors of Jesus was most likely a mortal man who's blood couldn't wash away anything other than his own sweat.

The crucifixion of Jesus did not wash away any mythological "sins".

Again, you're making things up.

Did John state that he was relaying a message?

No.

Does it state anywhere in these fables that Jesus told John to tell people that he claims to be the only begotten son of God?

No.

This is clearly just an author of these rumors making things up and/or voicing his own personal opinions.

Nowhere in these scriptures do any of these authors actually report that Jesus himself ever proclaimed to be the "only begotten son of God".

John doesn't even claim that Jesus said this. Nor does he claim that Jesus told him to say it.

John just states this as a narrative opinion of his own making.

No Cowboy you are denying the fables.

It does not state in the fables that women will suffer childbirth merely because they are no longer in the garden of eden.

Why do you make things up? That is not what these fables say.

Do you realize that making up fibs like you do is indeed LYING?

No, that's not what the biblical fables claim. You are lying about that.

What the biblical fables claim is that Eve is being punished with this curse for her disobedience. And the Serpent is punished by making him craw on his belly for the rest of the days of his life.

And that's supposedly why snakes crawl on their bellies.

These fables say nothing about this being a mere consequence of just being kicked out of the garden of Eden.

Why do you feel justified to lie about scriptures?

Lying is lying.

Besides, you shouldn't have to lie. If the scriptures make sense you should be able to justify them for what they actually say. The mere fact that you do make things up and lie about what they actually say only shows that even you realize that they can't be supported in their actual form.

No, he's not that consistent. He uses Jesus to support all of the bigotry, hatred, and male-chauvinism of the Old Testament.

Even even renounced Gay Marriage in Jesus' name, even though Jesus never even addressed this issue.

He also uses the ENTIRE NEW TESTAMENT as though it speaks for Jesus, including all the writing of Paul. But most of what Paul actually wrote was references to the Old Testament Dogma dredging all that up in Jesus' name.

In fact, Jesus isn't even in the New Testament at all really.

There is not a single solitary word in the New Testament that was written by Jesus. Not one single solitary word.

It's all hearsay rumors.

And much of what is being attributed to this man named Jesus was never even attributed to Jesus at all. Much of it was just the opinions of the authors of the New Testament.

For example.


John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


John isn't even proclaiming that Jesus ever said this. On the contrary this is clearly being stated as John's opinion. It's not even being claimed to be a quote of Jesus.

The most famous verse in all of Chrisitanity didn't even come from Jesus!


John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Jesus didn't say this. John did!

This is just John's opinion.

Jesus didn't even say this!

Jesus never claimed to be "The only begotten son of God".

On the contrary, when Jesus is actually claimed to be quoted he says that "I and the Father are one".

That's not a proclamation that he's the SON of God. That's a pantheistic proclamation that he is ONE with God.

Moreover when he was accused of blaspheme for having said this he replied, "Is it not written in your law, ye are gods?"

Jesus wasn't claiming to be any different from anyone else.

You are wrong Cowboy.

The original Old Testament mythologies have clearly proclaimed that all women shall suffer in childbirth as punishment for Eve's sin.

Your claim that this has been forgiven through the blood of Christ, is clearly wrong. Women still suffer in the pain of childbirth to this very day. Thus Christ's blood would have washing away that curse of original sin.

So your interpretation can't stand.

It simply doesn't hold true.

So it's no doubt a myth that the blood of Jesus washed anything away other than his own sweat when he was crucified.

He was probably crucified by people like you who refused to accept his rejection of their dogma.

Had you been an obedient devoted Pharisee in the days of Jesus you would have viewed Jesus just as you view me. As someone who simply rejects your extremely dogmatic view of the God of Abraham.

Jesus would be in agreement with me, not with you.

You would have Jesus and me nailed to the pole side-by-side proclaiming us both to be blasphemers and heathens who reject your dogma of GOD!

If that were the actual situation it wouldn't be absurd.

But in the Christian religion everyone is proclaimed to born a sinner.

So you are stuck in a situation where you must ask for forgiveness
for things that you didn't even do.

See:


So you see that's the absurdity.

The Christian dogma and the Bible in general
proclaim everyone to be guilty even before they
have done anything.

That should tell you right there that this dogma
was written by men who are trying to pin crap
onto you before you are even born!

You need to actually do something horrible yourself
before you should need to fear the wrath of any God.

This is why we can easily see that these fables
are nothing more than the devious works of men
who have done nothing more than create a religion
that automatically proclaims that everyone is in
need of being 'saved'.

No truly righteous deity would ever be involved
in such dastardly emotional terrorism.

This religion has people like yourself going around
accusing other people of being 'sinners' simply because
this dogma has brainwashed you into believing that this is true

But the fact is that it's utter nonsense.

This dogma leaves you NO CHOICE but to judge all men
as being sinners, because that's what this dogma proclaims to be true!

But it's nonsense.

It's a lie made up by emotional terrorists who are attempting
to frighten people into worshiping their dogma as the "Word of God".

And they threaten everyone who refuses to worship their dogma with
certain damnation by this totally unrighteous terrorist Godhead
that they have created in their dogma.

The whole thing is a blatant lie.

The only people who are gullible enough to believe it are people
who obviously believe that they have indeed rejected God and have
sinned against God.

The GOOD people have no reason to believe such utter nonsense
and therefore it's easy for them to see through this emotional
terrorism for precisely what it is.

Well, then those are your only sins and the only person you need to seek forgiveness from is yourself.

Obviously, if you're sins included offensive or harmful actions that adversely affect other people then you'd have to seek their forgiveness too.

But since your sins are solely sins of the self, you have no need to seek forgiveness from anyone beyond yourself. And if you forgive yourself then your sins are washed away.

However, keep in mind that the karma of the junk food lingers on.

In dogmatic religions "sin" is simply disobedience of what the dogma demands.

I agree with Ladylid that in terms of spirituality the time 'sin' doesn't even apply. Unless it is used loosely as an abstract concept define below:

As an abstract concept, "sin" can be thought of as anything a person deems to be unethical, immoral, or basically harmful.

I could be considered to be a "sin" to eat a chocolate bar whilst on a diet because that is "harmful" to the purpose of the diet.

Using the term 'sin' in this loosely abstract way, we might also say that a "sin" could simply be to do something that you really don't want to do. Going against your own moral values and higher purpose for the sake of giving into some instant gratification.

That could be considered to be a 'sin' against your higher purpose, because it is harmful to your higher purpose.

You want your lawn mowed, but instead of getting off your butt and mowing the lawn, you sit on your butt typing into religion forums.

That's a sin.

Well, it's only a sin if your higher purpose is to mow the lawn.

Truly.

The prophecies of the Old Testament state that the messiah will be handed the throne of King David by God.

Yet Jesus was never handed any throne and was never officially proclaimed to be the King of the Jews.

Therefore it is simply false to claim that all prophecies had been satisfied 100%.

The Jews themselves reject that Jesus was the messiah for this very reason, along with some others.

It's a Christian lie that Jesus fulfilled all the prophecies about a supposed messiah. The Jew have never accepted that lie.

Planet Earth could not even begin to support that many people.

All you've done is post crystal clear evidence that whoever wrote Genesis had absolutely no clue how many stars there are in the universe.

Obviously the author was trying to be poetic and had no clue about either the limited size of Planet Earth nor the actual expanse of the universe.

The very fact that you think this verse somehow proves that the Bible is reliable just shows that you have absolutely no clue what you are even talking about.

I trust that you do indeed feel much the same way I do concerning this.

And it is indeed a shame. It's a sad situation for you just as it is for me, because it tends to pit "Christianity against the world", which I'm sure is not your view.

In truth Old Hippie, I highly respect the fact that you think of Jesus before you make any decision. That is indeed a very good way to live your life. I do not question that at all.

When it comes to actual moral values, I'm in total agreement with just about everything that has been associated with Jesus.

Jesus never taught anyone that they must uphold the entire Torah as the "Word of God".

Also Jesus could not have possibly taught anyone that they need to believe in the New Testament or anything that came after it, since those things hadn't even been written at the time Jesus lived.

~~~~~

In truth, I respect "Jesus" as a Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva who actually rejected the immoral teachings of the Torah.

So in a very real sense, I value Jesus' opinions probably as much as you do.

I just view Jesus himself in a totally different way.

MsHarmony,

I can certainly accept your views that different people interpret things differently. But how far can that ideal be stretched?

Here's my interpretation of the whole Biblical story.

1. The Old Testament has no more merit than the Greek Mythology of Zeus.
2. Jesus was most likely a mortal Jewish Mahayana Buddhist Bodhisattva
3. The New Testament is nothing more than a collection of superstitious rumors.

That's a valid interpretation of the whole biblical cannon.

All I ask is that it be respected as such.