No problem. This thread has created a lot of arguing. Most things related to Christians or Christianity do.

We know that women were treated much more harshly in Judaic culture during this specific time period. That does not make it right. Basing your holy book on it doesn't either. It makes it all the worse.

It sounded as if you were attempting to infer that the Winter Solstice or Yule was no longer in existence and no one actually recognized it as such anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth. I myself celebrate Yule and have for the past 10 years as do many people that I know. Christmas is the Christian designation of the appropriated Yule Winter Festival. If that is all you meant by your comment, then so be it.

I would need to agree with your grandfather on that. However, if a woman was forcing you to wait and wait and wait and was not allowing even the slightest sample of affection like a kiss or a hand, then I would probably ask her what was happening. That seems only fitting and there would probably be a reason for it. Usually early on in a relationship there is an overall sense of how things are going.

And you are basing that on??

Do you like eggnog? I cant get myself to like it. It has a funny taste but everyone else seems to love it.

Just out of curiosity. How many dates do the men feel are appropriate before intimate contact should begin to take place and how many dates would a woman feel should happen before touching and kissing is permissible?

I figured this might give us a gauge of sorts.

That is the quickest conversion I have ever witnessed.

No comment in Italian.

Was Yamin always Jewish? Im confused. Jews dont celebrate Christmas and she was complaining that Christmas was Pagan in origin (which is true) so...

I used Chantix to help me quit and its been about 9 months now without one and I dont think about it either. I was a light smoker though, a pack might last me a week. Chantix does help the cravings though.

I know. Im just kidding myself. Then god goes and kills every man woman and child and infant in the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by pouring hot sulfur on them or something from the sky. Nice. Its also never really made clear what their crimes were exactly.

A couple guys on the thread even mentioned their distaste for it. I think men that generally have a caring or protective nature dont like the abuses of women in the bible.

Some men have no problem with these issues as it relates to the typical treatment of women in the scripture because they are simply insensitive to it and it doesn't effect them. They are male and men take center stage throughout the bible.

Many men clearly pick up on it and it bothers them however.

Thats what the quote feature is for. So you can begin your own argument while we continue to bicker about something else. Just kidding. This thread has remained pretty much civil.

Yes its going well here. We did have a nasty ice storm about 3 weeks ago and a large portion of New England was declared a disaster area because if people lose power, they cant keep themselves warm and it becomes a huge problem. Old people and babies especially are susceptible to hypothermia.

Ive been doing okay though. Ive lost my power several times but it always comes back before I need to start the generator. That's a hassle and it stinks up the joint like gasoline and its loud. So far so good. Hope you are doing well also and Happy Holidays and so forth.

With you I generally consider it passive/aggressive argumentation yet I do respect your ability to form cohesive sentences and respond to me in an intelligent, thought provoking manner.



Good save but no dice. You were clearly called on it. Its not a HUGE infraction yet the implication was that "good old fashioned" courtship revolved around some sort of Christian sense of morality. I accept your apology and it is not a huge concern.

Yes I did interpret the origional poster's comment to be in reference to "modern day courtship" ritual. I did so because the activities that she distinctly referred to were customs that one would associate with every day courtship and not any of your cited examples, which though interesting, have no bearing nor relevance on the topic at hand.

I apologize if I was unclear.

I can not speak for men and that would be you. I am only speaking for myself. .

I will remind you.



Twice there you mentioned "Church" related activities which would denote Christianity.



This would for whatever reason imply that you assume that non Christians are more promiscuous. Im not sure why you would think that exactly. You can explain on your next post.

Im not sure what point you are attempting to make. The OP was referring to "courtship" as it would apply to a modern day setting. What you referred to as "dating" would be considered courtship by many women of today.

Na, there is no point in arguing this. Its simply how we view this issue. As I initially stated, if a man feels it necessary to enforce his sexual agenda on me sans courtship, I will not chastise, simply reject and walk away. We will not be compatible. That only applies to me and not to anyone else on this thread.