Topic: Phoenix Mars Lander Found Liquid Water
Atlantis75's photo
Tue 03/10/09 04:14 PM
During its more than five-month stint on Mars last year, NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander found evidence that liquid water existed at the spacecraft's landing site, some Phoenix team members say.

Water is key to all forms of life as we know it and the discovery of liquid water would suggest a greater opportunity for biology on the red planet.

The new but controversial conclusion comes from observations of a set of "little globules" attached to struts on the lander's legs that were photographed by Phoenix's robotic arm camera over the course of the mission, as first reported at Spaceflight Now.

These globs were seen to apparently move and grow between snapshots, and 22 members of the Phoenix team, including principal investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona in Tucson, think that this behavior combined with other Phoenix findings indicates that these blobs might have been liquid water that was splashed up onto the spacecraft as it landed.

The paper making the case for liquid water will be presented on March 23 at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston. But not all of Phoenix's team members agree with the paper's interpretation of the globs.

"It's a bit controversial," Smith told SPACE.com. But "obviously they came from somewhere ­­— they weren't there when we launched," he added.

Phoenix touched down at its landing site in the Martian arctic on May 25, 2008. The stationary lander's mission was to search for signs of potential habitability on the red planet, namely, signs that water ice just below the surface was once liquid.

On July 31, 2008, Phoenix confirmed that the hard material it encountered underneath the clumpy surface dirt was indeed water ice. Analyses of dirt done in the lander's onboard instruments also indicated that this ice was likely once liquid and had interacted with the Martian regolith, or dirt, at a period of time in Mars' history when its climate was warmer.

But finding liquid water on the present surface of Mars, which sees temperatures between -20 and -80 degrees Celsius (-4 and -112 degrees Fahrenheight) even in the summer, is a whole different ball game. It was expected that any water ice exposed to the atmosphere would immediately sublimate, or turn to vapor. The Phoenix team saw signs of this when they exposed underground ice in the trenches dug by the spacecraft.

The new report's main author, Phoenix team member Nilton Renno, proposes that perchlorate salts, discovered in the Martian dirt by Phoenix's wet chemistry lab, were concentrated enough in a patch at the spacecraft's landing site that they could lower the freezing point of the water ice, causing it to melt into a salty brine (this is the same phenomenon that causes sidewalk salt to melt down snow and ice in the winter). Nilton and his co-authors think the brine could have been splashed up onto the lander leg when Phoenix touched down.

Of course, Phoenix didn't get any samples of this material and any investigation of the blobs relies on the images taken by Phoenix and knowledge of how perchlorate behaves.

"There's a matter of belief at some level," Smith said.

Smith cautions that the case isn't solved for sure. As Phoenix descended to the surface, its thrusters created a high-pressure, high-temperature environment and blasted ammonia which could have affected the surface below it. There could also be other constituents in the dirt that could affect its chemistry, he said.

But the case for liquid water is compelling, Smith said. Though he added, "I can't say I agree with every statement in the paper."

Michael Hecht, the lead scientist for the instrument that discovered perchlorate, thinks that while the idea of this splash of liquid brine isn't physically impossible, it is "far less likely than simpler explanations," he told SPACE.com.

The imaging of the globules is low resolution, which Smith also pointed out, and some of the apparent changes seen in them could be attributed to changing shadows, Hecht said.

And while perchlorate is an excellent sponge, sucking up water if the surrounding air is warm and dry enough, the temperatures required of the lander mentioned in the paper are too warm and "you would not get liquid droplets of perchlorate brine," Hecht explained.

A more likely explanation, Hecht contends, is that water vapor released by the ground ice stuck to the legs.

The legs would likely be relatively cold compared to the ground during the day, Hecht explained. When sunlight fell on the patches of ice exposed at the landing site, some of that water would sublimate. As that water vapor traveled up through the air, it might encounter cold patches of dirt stuck on the lander legs from the landing and stick.

And "once there's ice there, [other water vapor molecules will] go to the places where there's ice," eventually forming the blobs seen in the photos, Hecht said.
......Some Scientists Think


There are circumstances where perchlorate could create liquid brine on Mars though, Hecht said. During periods when Mars might have just a few degrees warmer, perhclorate rinds could melt water ice. Another paper being presented at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference posits that perchlorates could seep down beneath Mars' polar ice caps, forming a lubricating sludge that lets the ice caps flow.

But these situations are different than the briny blobs described by Renno.

Hecht acknowledges that he could be wrong and the globs on Phoenix could be liquid brine, but "I just don't think it's the likely explanation," he said. "It's just plain old frost, nothing more."

Hecht thinks that the true nature of these blobs will be hashed out over time by the Phoenix team and by reviewers of Renno's paper. (Hecht and Renno, as well as other Phoenix team members, have corresponded at great length over the topic.)

"It hasn't been in front of the jury yet," Hecht said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20090310/sc_space/phoenixmarslanderfoundliquidwatersomescientiststhink

MirrorMirror's photo
Wed 03/11/09 05:18 PM

During its more than five-month stint on Mars last year, NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander found evidence that liquid water existed at the spacecraft's landing site, some Phoenix team members say.

Water is key to all forms of life as we know it and the discovery of liquid water would suggest a greater opportunity for biology on the red planet.

The new but controversial conclusion comes from observations of a set of "little globules" attached to struts on the lander's legs that were photographed by Phoenix's robotic arm camera over the course of the mission, as first reported at Spaceflight Now.

These globs were seen to apparently move and grow between snapshots, and 22 members of the Phoenix team, including principal investigator Peter Smith of the University of Arizona in Tucson, think that this behavior combined with other Phoenix findings indicates that these blobs might have been liquid water that was splashed up onto the spacecraft as it landed.

The paper making the case for liquid water will be presented on March 23 at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston. But not all of Phoenix's team members agree with the paper's interpretation of the globs.

"It's a bit controversial," Smith told SPACE.com. But "obviously they came from somewhere ­­— they weren't there when we launched," he added.

Phoenix touched down at its landing site in the Martian arctic on May 25, 2008. The stationary lander's mission was to search for signs of potential habitability on the red planet, namely, signs that water ice just below the surface was once liquid.

On July 31, 2008, Phoenix confirmed that the hard material it encountered underneath the clumpy surface dirt was indeed water ice. Analyses of dirt done in the lander's onboard instruments also indicated that this ice was likely once liquid and had interacted with the Martian regolith, or dirt, at a period of time in Mars' history when its climate was warmer.

But finding liquid water on the present surface of Mars, which sees temperatures between -20 and -80 degrees Celsius (-4 and -112 degrees Fahrenheight) even in the summer, is a whole different ball game. It was expected that any water ice exposed to the atmosphere would immediately sublimate, or turn to vapor. The Phoenix team saw signs of this when they exposed underground ice in the trenches dug by the spacecraft.

The new report's main author, Phoenix team member Nilton Renno, proposes that perchlorate salts, discovered in the Martian dirt by Phoenix's wet chemistry lab, were concentrated enough in a patch at the spacecraft's landing site that they could lower the freezing point of the water ice, causing it to melt into a salty brine (this is the same phenomenon that causes sidewalk salt to melt down snow and ice in the winter). Nilton and his co-authors think the brine could have been splashed up onto the lander leg when Phoenix touched down.

Of course, Phoenix didn't get any samples of this material and any investigation of the blobs relies on the images taken by Phoenix and knowledge of how perchlorate behaves.

"There's a matter of belief at some level," Smith said.

Smith cautions that the case isn't solved for sure. As Phoenix descended to the surface, its thrusters created a high-pressure, high-temperature environment and blasted ammonia which could have affected the surface below it. There could also be other constituents in the dirt that could affect its chemistry, he said.

But the case for liquid water is compelling, Smith said. Though he added, "I can't say I agree with every statement in the paper."

Michael Hecht, the lead scientist for the instrument that discovered perchlorate, thinks that while the idea of this splash of liquid brine isn't physically impossible, it is "far less likely than simpler explanations," he told SPACE.com.

The imaging of the globules is low resolution, which Smith also pointed out, and some of the apparent changes seen in them could be attributed to changing shadows, Hecht said.

And while perchlorate is an excellent sponge, sucking up water if the surrounding air is warm and dry enough, the temperatures required of the lander mentioned in the paper are too warm and "you would not get liquid droplets of perchlorate brine," Hecht explained.

A more likely explanation, Hecht contends, is that water vapor released by the ground ice stuck to the legs.

The legs would likely be relatively cold compared to the ground during the day, Hecht explained. When sunlight fell on the patches of ice exposed at the landing site, some of that water would sublimate. As that water vapor traveled up through the air, it might encounter cold patches of dirt stuck on the lander legs from the landing and stick.

And "once there's ice there, [other water vapor molecules will] go to the places where there's ice," eventually forming the blobs seen in the photos, Hecht said.
......Some Scientists Think


There are circumstances where perchlorate could create liquid brine on Mars though, Hecht said. During periods when Mars might have just a few degrees warmer, perhclorate rinds could melt water ice. Another paper being presented at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference posits that perchlorates could seep down beneath Mars' polar ice caps, forming a lubricating sludge that lets the ice caps flow.

But these situations are different than the briny blobs described by Renno.

Hecht acknowledges that he could be wrong and the globs on Phoenix could be liquid brine, but "I just don't think it's the likely explanation," he said. "It's just plain old frost, nothing more."

Hecht thinks that the true nature of these blobs will be hashed out over time by the Phoenix team and by reviewers of Renno's paper. (Hecht and Renno, as well as other Phoenix team members, have corresponded at great length over the topic.)

"It hasn't been in front of the jury yet," Hecht said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20090310/sc_space/phoenixmarslanderfoundliquidwatersomescientiststhink
bigsmile coolbigsmile

willy_cents's photo
Wed 03/11/09 05:23 PM
noway DON'T DRINK IT!!!!! It's yellow:laughing:

MirrorMirror's photo
Wed 03/11/09 10:57 PM

noway DON'T DRINK IT!!!!! It's yellow:laughing:
laugh laugh laugh laugh

Atlantis75's photo
Thu 03/12/09 11:42 AM
They also found this card, laying not far from the landing site, taped to a piece of rock:


no photo
Thu 03/12/09 03:11 PM
Did they ever find the missing moons of mars? (at one point someone claimed that the moons went missing.)

Here is a tidbit of alien rumor:

The moons of mars are not natural formations, but some kind of alien technology, satellite or space ship.

********************************************



ABOUT THE MOONS OF MARS
by Bart Jordan

Bart Jordan is a classical guitarist who studied with Andre Segovia in Spain. He also has a degree in comparative literature, and has initiated research regarding the art and science of prehistoric humankind. An extraordinary mathematical ability led him, at a very early age, into an audience with Einstein. After reading Gulliver's Travels in which Swift, although writing fiction, had accorded two moons to Mars, Jordan wanted to know the exact revolutions and distances of the moons because he thought they might hold a key to their actual dimensions. In 1944, aged seven, he calculated the distances of Phobos and Deimos from the center of Mars. These were later published by Encyclopedia Britannica during the sixties. In the following article, he provides mathematical evidence for his theory that the moons of Mars were culled from the Asteroid Belt between Jupiter and Mars. His Cesium Second Equation is the most spectacular of all his evidence, suggesting that Man was clearly the author of this event.

Asaph Hall, a Naval Observatory astronomer, discovered the two Martian moons in 1877. He named them after the "moonsteed" sons of the Greek war god Ares (Mars): Phobos ("Fear") and Deimos ("Panic"). Their sister, Harmonia, was the goddess of music, and represented harmony in all things, especially numbers. Full examination of the principal numbers associated with the distances, the dimensions, and the revolutions of the two moons shows that there is more than a natural harmony throughout.

That is what the evidence suggests. To ascertain this, we have to delve into those measures which would be communicated via the mile, the kilometer, and the 24-hour-clock, all of which we mistakenly take to be modern not ancient.

Russian radio astronomer I.S. Shklovskii, in his and Carl Sagan's book Intelligent Life In The Universe, theorizes, "The idea that the moons of Mars are artificial satellites may seem fantastic at first glance. In my opinion, however, it merits serious consideration. A technical civilization substantially in advance of our own would certainly be capable of constructing and launching massive satellites."

Commenting on the above, Carl Sagan said, "Conceivably, the capture and hollowing of a small asteroid may be technically more feasible than the construction in orbit of an artificial satellite with material brought from the surface."

I concur. Following are my reasons, which are based on the number 2277 and much beyond. I noted that the synodical or apparent revolutions of the five planets in man's immediate view were as follows: Saturn 378, Jupiter 399, Mars 780, Venus 584, and Mercury 116. The total number of days involved amounts to 2257. Adding the Direction Number [1] to each - south 4, west 6, center 2, east 3, and north 5 - gives 20. 2257 plus 20 equals 2277, the same as the combined minutes schedules for Phobos (459) and Deimos (1818). It also reflects the mean distance of Mars (227,700,000) from the Sun. Mere coincidence?

The dimensions of the Martian moons were unknown and could not be determined by telescope from Earth. Nonetheless, in 1944, at age seven, I gave my trixial measures for Phobos and Deimos as an expression of my harmonius number (see below) 521746.251746 squared, or 272219151211. I then used this number to directly read off the sizes in kilometers for the Martian moons as follows: Phobos 27 long, 22 wide, 19 deep; Deimos 15 long, 12 wide, 11 deep [2].

These measures had to await confirmation by NASA spacecraft; according to the Viking orbiters, they were all correct.

I have been asked repeatedly how I derived my harmonius number and what evidence I used to settle upon the six figures. To answer this question, I must ask the patience of the reader. It requires going into the specific math I used to solve the problem.

There are 52 weeks in a menstrual year (364) of nights. My newly deciphered Harmony of Spheres diagram had two octaves (25 notes). 25 is a mirror of 52, so my harmonius number had to involve both of these numbers: 52------25------. The missing numbers had to be built upon 2277, both as 22 plus 77, and 22 times 77. By interpolating 47, the atomic number of silver, which is sacred to the Moon, I derived the following equation:

22 + (77X22) + 77 - 47 = 1746

My harmonius number was therefore 521746.251746 squared, or 272219151211.

Although Encyclopedia Britannica chose not to publish my dimensions for the two moons, fearing they were too large, my mile/kilometer measures for the distances from the satellites to the center of Mars were published in the Encyclopedia during the 1960's. Also, my 1944 equation for the distances was sourced in the Solar Year of 365.24 days and the Lunar Year of 354.36 nights. The difference, 10.88, was associated with 10.88 feet per second for the speed of sound.

Let us now move on to examine the exact method I used to determine these distances.

THE METHODOLOGY

It is important to note from the outset that the method involves almost exclusively the viewpoint of Earth, not Mars. Again I ask the patience of reader. The material is easy to understand but somewhat tedious in the telling. We will proceed slowly but surely toward the conclusion as to why I chose the particular measures I did for the dimensions of the two moons.

From the viewpoint of Mars, Phobos rises in the west and sets in the east with an apparent revolution of 11 hours. The number 11 was very important to ancient cultures. It constituted the number of semitones in the diatonic music scale before the twelfth note which was the octave. It still does. If the hands of man were in it , a number of choice would have been 11 as it has a unique symmetry, reading identically west to east or east to west.

Note also that 11 times 11 is 121, times 11 again gives 1331, and times 11 once more is 14641. Also important is the fact that 47 (atomic number of silver, sacred to the Moon) plus 74 (silver mirrored) equals 121, and that 121 squared equals 14641. The 14641 minus 26 (atomic number of iron, sacred to Mars) equals 14615, which is the distance (in miles) of Deimos from the center of Mars. Also, 14615 divided by 2.5 (25 notes divided by 10 fingers) equals 5846. The 5846 minus 26 (atomic number of iron) equals 5820, which is the distance (in miles) of Phobos from the center of Mars.

Expressed in kilometers, 23520 is the distance of Deimos from the center of Mars. The 23520 plus 55 (atomic weight of iron) equals 23575. Likewise, 9366 is the distance in kilometers of Phobos from Mars' center. The 9366 plus 55 equals 9421.

Now I can answer the question as to the dimensions of Phobos and Deimos. I simply added all the figures above (14615 + 5820 + 23575 + 9421). The answer is 53431. I then returned to the figure 11 mentioned earlier, and employed it as follows using the figures of 53431 separately and in reverse order, thusly: 11 up by 1 to 12, up by 3 to 15, up by 4 to 19, up by 3 to 22, up by 5 to 27. This, together together with my harmonius number given above, led me to settle upon those specific dimensions of 27 22 19 for Phobos, and 15 12 11 for Deimos.

We must now look at the revolutions of Phobos and Deimos. They both utilize the number 918, which comes from multiplying 600 times 1.53 (the difference between the 28-night cycle of menstruation, and the 29.53 night cycle of our Moon). 918 divided by 2 is correct to the minute for Phobos revolution of 459 minutes. 918 square-rooted is correct to the second for Deimos' revolution of 30.2985 hours. This is harmony in plain sight!

The truth is that Phobos and Deimos are locked into several equations which demonstrate their tandem relationship. Their minute schedules of 459 minutes for Phobos revolution and 1818 minutes for Deimos' revolution are a case in point. This is shown by the following equation:

459 + (1818 x 5.5 x 459) + 1818 = Phobos 4591818 Deimos

The 5.5 is 55, the atomic weight of Iron (sacred to Mars) divided by 10 (fingers of Man, the artificer's hands). Also note that the numbers 1 to 10, when added, give 55.

HIDDEN RELATIONSHIPS

What is hidden from view is the remarkable relationship of Phobos' 27554-second revolution, and Deimos' 109075-second revolution to the Cesium second. As the General Conference on Weights and Measures defined it on October 13, 1967, "The second is that duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of radiation corresponding to the transition between two hyperfine levels of the fundamental state of the atom of cesium 133." As the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics points out, "The frequency (9,192,631,770 Hertz) which the definition assigns to the Cesium radiation was carefully chosen to make it impossible, by any experimental evidence, to distinguish the new second from the ephemeris' second based on the Earth's motion."

Exactly so! Here is the hidden relationship. Note that the 109075 seconds of Deimos' day is set sown in reverse (reading east to west - like Hebrew), the direction in which deimos travels. Now take a look at these numbers:

23h 56m 4.09 seconds (Earth day)
27554 s 570901 (Phobos and Deimos)
23h 60m 00s (Clock day)

This can be expressed as:

(23560409 + 27554570901 - 236000) divided by 3 = 9192631770 (Cesium second)

What does all this mean?

It means that man has to reevaluate. Man's future is in his past with no escape present. Deriving the Cesium second at 9,192,631,770 is too highly particularized to be a fluke. From the equation above, it should be clear that the orbits of Phobos and Deimos were deliberately synchronized with our Earth day and our Clock day. This is neither an accident nor a coincidence; it is by design!

Phobos and Deimos were carefully plotted and positioned to function as second hands in their roles as timekeepers of the Cesium second. Beyond the immediate role, why Cesium? Was the metal involved in ion-propelled vehicles used for their capture from the he Asteroid Belt? Has Cesium been a factor in the maintenance of their precise orbits? Whatever the case may be, Phobos and Deimos were installed in the Martian heavens by people from Earth, not Mars.

We have gone, in the space of a single lifetime, from stepping up onto the buckboard to stepping down onto the Moon. There is now reason to believe that a former civilization could have done likewise and much beyond. It vanished without a trace, possibly beneath the glaciers.

Mars is a wasteland. What happened to its atmosphere? My cesium equation cannot tell us. What it can say is that Phobos and Deimos be viewed as a warning to our atomic and space technologies. We have examples from which to learn: Phobos, Deimos and Mars.

NOTES

[1] My "Direction Numbers" originate deep within the Ice Age. These were standard throughout the Ice Age and are the source for such items as the meandor, swastika, Caracol, and the pyramids.

[2] There is a hidden 918 setting in the difference between the dimensions 27 22 19 minus 15 12 11 which equals 12 10 08. If we multiply these pairs together, we get 12 x 10 x 08 = 960. And 960 - 12 - 10 - 08 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 8 = 918. We shall see later that 918 becomes crucial to the orbits of Phobos and Deimos.

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/mars/bartjordan_1.html