Topic: Christian group with signs at a Gay Pride event
mightymoe's photo
Fri 04/27/12 08:34 AM



Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


it's not a fact, no matter what anyone believes...

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 08:41 AM



it's hard to note sarcasm on the internet...


How could any person who knew ANYTHING about atheism think that an atheist would say "Allah be with you" or think that atheists believe that Steven Hawkings created the universe? Really, did you read my post at all? The internet is no excuse in this case. If you couldn't get the sarcasm from that post, you just weren't going to get it.


Sarcasm isn't what I thought when I read your post. It seemed like you were trying to be funny, but just missed the mark.


I have an excellent sense of humor. If I were trying to be funny, you would be laughing.

Chazster's photo
Fri 04/27/12 08:58 AM



Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.

mightymoe's photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:08 AM




Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


faith and fact are opposites... saying there are bears in the woods is a fact, saying there are dragons is faith... just because someone believes something doesn't make it a fact... you argued that in the 911 treads...

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:11 AM




Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


:thumbsup:

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:25 AM




it's hard to note sarcasm on the internet...


How could any person who knew ANYTHING about atheism think that an atheist would say "Allah be with you" or think that atheists believe that Steven Hawkings created the universe? Really, did you read my post at all? The internet is no excuse in this case. If you couldn't get the sarcasm from that post, you just weren't going to get it.


Sarcasm isn't what I thought when I read your post. It seemed like you were trying to be funny, but just missed the mark.


I have an excellent sense of humor. If I were trying to be funny, you would be laughing.


Either way, you missed the mark on that post.

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:31 AM





it's hard to note sarcasm on the internet...


How could any person who knew ANYTHING about atheism think that an atheist would say "Allah be with you" or think that atheists believe that Steven Hawkings created the universe? Really, did you read my post at all? The internet is no excuse in this case. If you couldn't get the sarcasm from that post, you just weren't going to get it.


Sarcasm isn't what I thought when I read your post. It seemed like you were trying to be funny, but just missed the mark.


I have an excellent sense of humor. If I were trying to be funny, you would be laughing.


Either way, you missed the mark on that post.


Nope, it was a bulls-eye. Made my point exactly. Just because some people don't get the message, that doesn't mean the message isn't there.

Chazster's photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:38 AM





Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


faith and fact are opposites... saying there are bears in the woods is a fact, saying there are dragons is faith... just because someone believes something doesn't make it a fact... you argued that in the 911 treads...


Not sure if you are expanding my point or misunderstood it. To clarify I am in agreement with you.

msharmony's photo
Fri 04/27/12 09:56 AM





Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


faith and fact are opposites... saying there are bears in the woods is a fact, saying there are dragons is faith... just because someone believes something doesn't make it a fact... you argued that in the 911 treads...



faith and fact are not opposites,, I have faith my dad is my dad but I never had a dna test to PROVE it. THAt has nothing to do with whether a dna test would indeed prove my belief to be true.

people can have faith in many things and some may turn out to be factual and some may not.

Chazster's photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:23 AM






Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


faith and fact are opposites... saying there are bears in the woods is a fact, saying there are dragons is faith... just because someone believes something doesn't make it a fact... you argued that in the 911 treads...



faith and fact are not opposites,, I have faith my dad is my dad but I never had a dna test to PROVE it. THAt has nothing to do with whether a dna test would indeed prove my belief to be true.

people can have faith in many things and some may turn out to be factual and some may not.


But once it is a fact you can no longer have a belief in it. That is why they are opposite. A fact is not something that is true. It is something that can be proven. A belief is something that can't be proven. You have the belief because You don't know. Yet it is a fact because at any time it can be proven if you chose to prove it. Once you have proof you no longer have a belief.

msharmony's photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:29 AM
huh?




fact: something that has actual existence

thats it


there are many unknown facts being discovered everyday. ANd no, not everything we believe is a fact, but some of the things we believe are a fact (as in ACTUAL AND REAL)


if the dna came back positive its a fact that my dad is my dad,, the dna didnt make it a fact, it was already a fact, the dna just helps PROVE Its a fact

before the proof comes the belief,,,but the fact is constant

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:37 AM



Nope, it was a bulls-eye. Made my point exactly. Just because some people don't get the message, that doesn't mean the message isn't there.


It just means the message wasn't quite clear enough, sarcastic enough, funny enough, or whatever you were aiming for. That's ok. We all miss getting our points across as well as we should at times.

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:38 AM




Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


Many christians seem sure there is a got and get bent out of shape when someone questions that belief. Many, not all of course. Some do realize that everyone has different beliefs.

Chazster's photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:46 AM

huh?




fact: something that has actual existence

thats it


there are many unknown facts being discovered everyday. ANd no, not everything we believe is a fact, but some of the things we believe are a fact (as in ACTUAL AND REAL)


if the dna came back positive its a fact that my dad is my dad,, the dna didnt make it a fact, it was already a fact, the dna just helps PROVE Its a fact

before the proof comes the belief,,,but the fact is constant


"fact" may also indicate an "allegation or stipulation" of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[6]
 (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy"). This alternate usage, although contested by some, has a long history in standard English.[7]

Chazster's photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:51 AM





Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


Many christians seem sure there is a got and get bent out of shape when someone questions that belief. Many, not all of course. Some do realize that everyone has different beliefs.


Well of course people s firmness in their belief is different t but it is a belief none the less. Atheism is also a belief but some tend to forget that.

msharmony's photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:52 AM


huh?




fact: something that has actual existence

thats it


there are many unknown facts being discovered everyday. ANd no, not everything we believe is a fact, but some of the things we believe are a fact (as in ACTUAL AND REAL)


if the dna came back positive its a fact that my dad is my dad,, the dna didnt make it a fact, it was already a fact, the dna just helps PROVE Its a fact

before the proof comes the belief,,,but the fact is constant


"fact" may also indicate an "allegation or stipulation" of something that may or may not be a "true fact",[6]
 (e.g., "the author's facts are not trustworthy"). This alternate usage, although contested by some, has a long history in standard English.[7]


ok, well im using fact in the historical context of something that is 'actual'....

and even in the above definition, this would not be the opposite of a belief,,,,

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 10:52 AM
Edited by singmesweet on Fri 04/27/12 10:53 AM



Well of course people s firmness in their belief is different t but it is a belief none the less. Atheism is also a belief but some tend to forget that.


Yeah, it definitely happens on both sides.

Either way, I am happy to see that some christians think for themselves and were able to be ok with people being gay.

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 11:50 AM





... they say "Jesus is in all of us" ...


Another swing and a miss. ....


He is right though. I don't know any Christians that said the things you said. ....
you may not know any but dowm here in the south theres plenty,i've heard it numerous of times God and jesus is in you ...


I've heard this, too.

How does one determine what a 'true christian' believes?

When I was younger I traveled the country several times, and one of the things I did when travelling was polling people in different regions about their beliefs. Of course this was by no means a scientific or comprehensive survey.

But I did find a lot of people - all of whom claimed to be christian - who had completely contradicted each other re: 'what does a true chrisitian believe'.

And in southern California I knew a lot of people who would say that Jesus is within all of us.

I thought it might be a result of hybridization with the bastardization of hindu beliefs that are really popular in LA.


RKISIT's photo
Fri 04/27/12 11:59 AM






... they say "Jesus is in all of us" ...


Another swing and a miss. ....


He is right though. I don't know any Christians that said the things you said. ....
you may not know any but dowm here in the south theres plenty,i've heard it numerous of times God and jesus is in you ...


I've heard this, too.

How does one determine what a 'true christian' believes?

When I was younger I traveled the country several times, and one of the things I did when travelling was polling people in different regions about their beliefs. Of course this was by no means a scientific or comprehensive survey.

But I did find a lot of people - all of whom claimed to be christian - who had completely contradicted each other re: 'what does a true chrisitian believe'.

And in southern California I knew a lot of people who would say that Jesus is within all of us.

I thought it might be a result of hybridization with the bastardization of hindu beliefs that are really popular in LA.


Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Now homosexual acts are a ABOMINATION.Yet you have judaic god worshippers who think it's ok?their God thinks differently.This is my point theres hypocrisy among the Abrahamic following.As you mentioned a "true christian" would be one who believes cause of gods disgust with it that homosexual acts are wrong.

no photo
Fri 04/27/12 12:34 PM







Many would disagree that God is a myth. If that is your belief that is fine. But stop pretending it is a stayement of fact. There is no basis for that belief exceptactually having that belief.


Just like those who believe in god should
stop pretending it's a fact he exists?


Most Christians state it as a belief. Even look at the Catholic Churches creed. The first line is. I BELIEVE IN one God. Right there it says believe. That is why it's called faith. Because if you knew for sure then you couldn't have faith.


faith and fact are opposites... saying there are bears in the woods is a fact, saying there are dragons is faith... just because someone believes something doesn't make it a fact... you argued that in the 911 treads...



faith and fact are not opposites,, I have faith my dad is my dad but I never had a dna test to PROVE it. THAt has nothing to do with whether a dna test would indeed prove my belief to be true.

people can have faith in many things and some may turn out to be factual and some may not.


But once it is a fact you can no longer have a belief in it. That is why they are opposite. A fact is not something that is true. It is something that can be proven. A belief is something that can't be proven. You have the belief because You don't know. Yet it is a fact because at any time it can be proven if you chose to prove it. Once you have proof you no longer have a belief.


This is mostly a semantic disagreement. I find it really interesting.

I think its advantageous to focus on people's underlying position, rather than the language used to express it... if possible.