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Topic: FACT SHEET: 45 YEARS OF OCCUPATION
no photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:13 PM



The regime Israel has imposed on the Palestinians is not the most murderous in the world, and certainly not in history (a recent exception being the war in Gaza). The most striking element is not the level of violence Israel employs against the Palestinians, but the level of control it exercises.


If there were terrorist in say, Ireland, that wanted to blow up and kill innocent people, say your children or family, what would you do? Have a picnic with them? Palestinians receive worse treatment from Hamas. If the Palestinians really want peace, they will have to live along side Israel, which they wont. Muslims want world domination not peace and that means one thing, they want you dead. Think about it.


Resistance to Occupation


Right, resistance of occupation is not terrorism.

Fighting for freedom is not terrorism.


no photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:21 PM
Edited by alleoops on Sat 06/09/12 01:29 PM



The regime Israel has imposed on the Palestinians is not the most murderous in the world, and certainly not in history (a recent exception being the war in Gaza). The most striking element is not the level of violence Israel employs against the Palestinians, but the level of control it exercises.


If there were terrorist in say, Ireland, that wanted to blow up and kill innocent people, say your children or family, what would you do? Have a picnic with them? Palestinians receive worse treatment from Hamas. If the Palestinians really want peace, they will have to live along side Israel, which they wont. Muslims want world domination not peace and that means one thing, they want you dead. Think about it.


Resistance to Occupation


Occupation of what? The people in that area lived in mud huts before Israel came to exist. They were there because none of the Arab countries wanted them and treated them as non-humans. There was no government, hospitals, schools. Nothing but poverty and squalor. Now, at least they have an opportunity to progress and what have they done?
The only occupier of the Palestinians is their ignorance.

Optomistic69's photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:29 PM




The regime Israel has imposed on the Palestinians is not the most murderous in the world, and certainly not in history (a recent exception being the war in Gaza). The most striking element is not the level of violence Israel employs against the Palestinians, but the level of control it exercises.


If there were terrorist in say, Ireland, that wanted to blow up and kill innocent people, say your children or family, what would you do? Have a picnic with them? Palestinians receive worse treatment from Hamas. If the Palestinians really want peace, they will have to live along side Israel, which they wont. Muslims want world domination not peace and that means one thing, they want you dead. Think about it.


Resistance to Occupation


Occupation of what? The people in that area lived in mud huts before Israel came to exist. They were there because none of the Arab countries wanted them and treated them as non-humans. There was no government, hospitals, schools. Nothing but poverty and squalor. Now, at least they have an opportunity to progress and what have they done?



I cannot believe what I am reading

I believe that you believe that and in coming to that conclusion I have no desire to partake in any further stupid discussion with you.

I could produce photographic documentation but I Cannot be bothered my arse to do so.

Slan Leat anois drinker


no photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:39 PM





The regime Israel has imposed on the Palestinians is not the most murderous in the world, and certainly not in history (a recent exception being the war in Gaza). The most striking element is not the level of violence Israel employs against the Palestinians, but the level of control it exercises.


If there were terrorist in say, Ireland, that wanted to blow up and kill innocent people, say your children or family, what would you do? Have a picnic with them? Palestinians receive worse treatment from Hamas. If the Palestinians really want peace, they will have to live along side Israel, which they wont. Muslims want world domination not peace and that means one thing, they want you dead. Think about it.


Resistance to Occupation


Occupation of what? The people in that area lived in mud huts before Israel came to exist. They were there because none of the Arab countries wanted them and treated them as non-humans. There was no government, hospitals, schools. Nothing but poverty and squalor. Now, at least they have an opportunity to progress and what have they done?



I cannot believe what I am reading

I believe that you believe that and in coming to that conclusion I have no desire to partake in any further stupid discussion with you.

I could produce photographic documentation but I Cannot be bothered my arse to do so.

Slan Leat anois drinker




Believe it my friend.drinker

s1owhand's photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:55 PM


Except the Palestinians govern themselves in the West Bank and
Gaza and all they have to do to live in peace is to stop committing
terrorist acts and work on building a better tomorrow for their
kids. They should accept Israel as a Jewish state and lay down their
arms and make peace and allow themselves to prosper.


So you want them to be disarmed or lay down their arms?

Well then you should ask that the inept incompetent Israeli Military do the same thing because after all they can't be trusted with loaded weapons seeing as how they "accidently murdered Americans" on the USS Liberty.

They may never get Jerusalem or be allowed to mount an army but so what? Peace and prosperity and a future for their kids would be worth it. Jordan, Syria and Egypt could help by also kicking in some territory and resources.


Help what? Help hand over their land and resources to European 'Khazarian invaders who claim to be Jews?

The problem is Palestinians do not accept Israel as a Jewish state and Palestinians continue to kill innocent people in despicable
terrorist attacks rather than making peace.


Since Israeli military are known for wearing disguises and hiding who they really are when they attack innocent people (and Americans,) there is no way to tell or know for sure who is killing who. Anyone can put on a black hood.




laugh

Since the Palestinians continue to commit terrorist attack war
crimes solely aimed at killing innocent civilians they will have
to take responsibility for these attacks and accept a demilitarized
country. The Israelis cannot possibly be asked to trust those who
shoot rockets into their cities now to refrain if they are given
access to larger numbers of more powerful weapons.

No problem there are many countries which don't have much in the
way of an army and do not need it. The Palestinians certainly do
not need an army.

The Syrians, Jordanians and Egyptians could forge peace agreements
with both Israel and the Palestinians for example and be a positive
force for supporting peace for a change. These neighboring countries
could assist with water and power and other non-military goods and
could even assist by granting some land at their borders if it
would help to give the Palestinians extra space which Israel cannot
afford to give up given their miniscule size and severe security
needs.

Whenever the Arabs surrounding Israel lay down their arms there are
extended periods of peace in the region. They have done it before
and they can do it again. All they have to do is stop murdering
Israelis and they will have peace and can begin to build a better
future.


Optomistic69's photo
Sat 06/09/12 01:59 PM
The life of every Palestinian in the West Bank is at the mercy of any soldier he or she meets. We are talking millions of people, who haven’t got the most basic protections that civilians everywhere enjoy. All Palestinians are tried by military tribunals, where the prosecution and the judges wear the same uniform – that of the IDF. Palestinians are not allowed to travel outside the West Bank without an army permit. They are subject to long lines at checkpoints and to arbitrary searches whenever they meet a soldier. Soldiers enter Palestinian homes at any time – day or night – without a warrant. When a Palestinian is wronged by a soldier, there is little point in filing a complaint, as the army doesn’t have the checks and balances a civilian authority has. Palestinians are not just Israelis with lesser rights; they are more like the prisoners of Israelis. I know this, because I have seen the occupation in action and I have been directly involved in it.
And the worst thought of all: A Palestinian man my age has not been free for a single day in his life.




I am an Independent journalist and editor.

I have worked for Tel Aviv's Ha-ir local paper, for Ynet.co.il and for the Maariv daily, where my last post was deputy editor of the weekend magazine. My work has recently been published in Haaretz, Yedioth Ahronoth, The Nation and other newspapers and magazines.

I was born in Ramat-Gan and today live and work in Tel Aviv. Before working as a journalist, I served four and a half years in the IDF.

no photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:08 PM
The only occupier of the Palestinians is their ignorance.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:13 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Sat 06/09/12 02:18 PM

Any of them who claim to be descendants of King David and Abraham are either lying or fooling themselves because these are characters that cannot even be proven to have ever lived. They are fictional characters. Invented characters.





I'd be interested to find out how you know these figures never existed. Facts please, not opinions.


There is no evidence that they ever existed.

Proving they did exist is the true Challenge. That they were actually real historical figures is just an opinion or a belief.


In ancient history, textual evidence is often all we have. There is no physical evidence for the existance of Hannibal Barca apart from the texts of Livius, but no historian disputes he was an actual historical figure.

Why don't you see if you can prove that Big Foot does not exist? Or Santa Clause? Or Unicorns?


A ridiculous Red Herring.

There are some historical figures in the Bible where there is sufficient evidence to believe that they really did exist. Abraham and King David, Joshua, Moses, and all their descendants are not included. Without evidence, they should be regarded (scientifically) as fiction and myth.


Fallacious, see above.

If you believe they were real people, you must put your faith in who ever wrote the scriptures and stories because their is no historical or geological evidence that they ever existed.


See above, and I believe you mean archaeological, not geological.



s1owhand's photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:15 PM

The only occupier of the Palestinians is their ignorance.


QFT

no photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:22 PM


The only occupier of the Palestinians is their ignorance.


QFT


QFT?

s1owhand's photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:34 PM
Quoted For Truth.

Optomistic69's photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:41 PM
In recent years, the occupation has reached its most sophisticated level. It is the greatest national project Israel has launched. The best and the brightest take part in it: the high-tech industry invents new means of control and supervision over the local population (the army has become so good at this job, that Israel has exported much of the knowledge it gained in the West Bank and Gaza to other occupying countries); the best legal scholars come up with loopholes to allow the ongoing confiscation of assets and deprivation of rights; and the most skilled diplomats are taking part in a propaganda war meant to convince the world that the Palestinians are to blame for the occupation.

Astonishingly, the international community is buying this nonsense,



treating what is basically a massive-scale human rights violation as if it was a remote border dispute between two sovereign nations.

HotRodDeluxe's photo
Sat 06/09/12 02:56 PM

Optomistic69's photo
Sat 06/09/12 03:06 PM
Edited by Optomistic69 on Sat 06/09/12 03:07 PM


Occupation of what? The people in that area lived in mud huts before Israel came to exist. They were there because none of the Arab countries wanted them and treated them as non-humans. There was no government, hospitals, schools. Nothing but poverty and squalor. Now, at least they have an opportunity to progress and what have they done?
The only occupier of the Palestinians is their ignorance.


Some Mud Hut Thisdrinker drinker drinker laugh






no photo
Sat 06/09/12 03:29 PM
That looks like Hot Springs Arkansas in 1903.

Optomistic69's photo
Sat 06/09/12 03:36 PM
Just like Northern Ireland the Palestinian issue cannot be resolved by force, nor can it be made to disappear.

no photo
Sat 06/09/12 04:02 PM

Just like Northern Ireland the Palestinian issue cannot be resolved by force, nor can it be made to disappear.

It will not be resolved, but it will disappear one day.

no photo
Sat 06/09/12 05:40 PM
Edited by Jeanniebean on Sat 06/09/12 05:53 PM
HotRodDeluxe said:

In ancient history, textual evidence is often all we have.
There is no physical evidence for the existance of Hannibal Barca
apart from the texts of Livius, but no historian disputes he was an
actual historical figure.


HotRodDeluxe,

So what's your point? Scriptural evidence is not evidence. I suppose you believe the world was made in seven days too.

I have no idea who Hannibal Barca was supposed to be. But unless he
was as an important historical figure, as Abraham, who has been
instrumental in the creation of three major religions of the world
today, that continue to war with and slaughter each other, I see no
reason for any historian to waste any time "disputing" the existence
of Hannibal Barca.

There are, however, many very credible historians who do dispute the
existence of King David and Abraham. You really should read "The
invention of the Jewish People" by Shlomo Sand, Professor of History
at Tel Aviv University. The book was in the best-seller list in
Israel for nineteen weeks, and reprinted three times.

Oh I bet you, being a history buff, have already read it.

"The Invention of the Jewish People" has now been translated into
more languages than any other Israeli history book.


Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible
exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its
surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such
literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region
is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion
he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion
simply didn't happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the
region, and that the Diaspora is essentially a modern invention.

Controversial? Of course! There are a lot of people who don't want
this kind of information to be common knowledge.






HotRodDeluxe's photo
Sat 06/09/12 06:04 PM
Edited by HotRodDeluxe on Sat 06/09/12 06:19 PM

HotRodDeluxe said:

In ancient history, textual evidence is often all we have.
There is no physical evidence for the existence of Hannibal Barca
apart from the texts of Livius, but no historian disputes he was an
actual historical figure.


HotRodDeluxe,

So what's your point? Scriptural evidence is not evidence.


The point being that scriptural evidence is often all there is extant regarding historical figures. I made that quite plain earlier.


I suppose you believe the world was made in seven days too.


No, I don't, and there is no need for such a bucolic response.


I have no idea who Hannibal Barca was supposed to be. But unless he was as an important historical figure, as Abraham, who has been instrumental in the creation of three major religions of the world today, that continue to war with and slaughter each other, I see no reason for any historian to waste any time "disputing" the existence of Hannibal Barca.


Hannibal, the Carthaginian general who crossed the alps and invaded Italy and almost brought the downfall of Rome. That being said, the logic behind the 'there is no physical evidence, then the figure doesn't exist' argument is false. You clearly missed my point.

There are, however, many very credible historians who do dispute the existence of King David and Abraham.



Really? And who might they be?

You really should read "The invention of the Jewish People" by Shlomo Sand, Professor of History at Tel Aviv University. The book was in the best-seller list in Israel for nineteen weeks, and reprinted three times.


Populist fringe history

Israel Bartal, dean of the Faculty of Humanities at the Hebrew University, in a commentary published in Haaretz, writes that Sand's basic thesis and statements about Jewish historiography are "baseless". Bartal answers to "Sand's arguments (...) that no historian of the Jewish national movement has ever really believed that the origins of the Jews are ethnically and biologically "pure" [and that] Sand applies marginal positions to the entire body of Jewish historiography and, in doing so, denies the existence of the central positions in Jewish historical scholarship." Bartal refers to Sand's overall treatment of Jewish sources as "embarrassing and humiliating." He adds that "The kind of political intervention Sand is talking about, namely, a deliberate program designed to make Israelis forget the true biological origins of the Jews of Poland and Russia or a directive for the promotion of the story of the Jews' exile from their homeland is pure fantasy." Bartel summarizes his critique of Sand's characterization of Jewish historiography as follows: "as far as I can discern, the book contains not even one idea that has not been presented earlier in their books and articles by what he insists on defining as "authorized historians" suspected of "concealing historical truth,"" and calls the overall work "bizarre and incoherent."[9] For a full updated version of Bartal's review see now Zion 76 (2011), pp. 509-521.

Oh I bet you, being a history buff, have already read it.


BA in Ancient History and the Classics with a GPA of 6.7 out of 7 in one of the most prestigious universities in the world.

"The Invention of the Jewish People" has now been translated into more languages than any other Israeli history book.


So? 'Chariots of the Gods' enjoyed similar status, but is still a crock of ****.


Sand began his work by looking for research studies about forcible exile of Jews from the area now bordered by modern Israel, and its surrounding regions. He was astonished that he could find no such literature, he says, given that the expulsion of Jews from the region is viewed as a constitutive event in Jewish history. The conclusion he came to from his subsequent investigation is that the expulsion simply didn't happen, that no one exiled the Jewish people from the region, and that the Diaspora is essentially a modern invention.


He clearly ignored the Roman sources (Dio Cassius & Eusebius of Caesarea inter alios).

Controversial? Of course! There are a lot of people who don't want this kind of information to be common knowledge.


This often occurs when specious crap is published.







no photo
Sat 06/09/12 06:11 PM
'Chariots of the Gods' enjoyed similar status, but is still a crock of ****.


I wouldn't be too sure about that.... laugh laugh

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