Genesis 24 mentions domesticated camels, but camels were not domesticated until much later. The caravan trade in Genesis 37:25 only flourished in the eighth and seventh centuries B.C.

An early explanation for these textual anomalies was that Moses wrote the core of the Pentateuch, but later editors, such as Ezra, made additions. But in 1670, the philosopher Baruch Spinoza first proposed that Moses did not pen any of these books at all. It was common practice in the ancient Near East to attribute a work to an ancestral hero, or even a god, to legitimize its message and contents. That is probably what happened here.

RegularFeller Stated >>> I can say with 100% certainty that none of this is remotely relevant to any question I posed

Fred7170 stated >>>
You ask questions that require more than simple answers on a Forum, you take people to task on a subject not easily understood or explained, you pretend wanting to know in order to debate a question that has already been answered more then 5,000 years ago (namely: Does God exists) and then expect any Christian to answer to your full satisfaction while knowing full well that you won't budge from your position after hours and hours of senseless debate and that is less than genuine of you and you know it.
You want answers to your questions? Read the Bible, it's all in there. The answers have been right under man's nose for centuries but fallen-Man prefers to debate and doubt, argue and demonstrate instead of opening his little mind.

RegularFeller stated >>>
Well, yes, Fred, I am calling people to task. And if the answer cannot be supplied in the arena of "a simple forum", then why pose the question or make the claim in a "simple forum?

Is this religious discussion or is it a "everybody agree with me and we'll all clap our hands and smile and act superior to others" soap boxing?

Furthermore, I hadn't questioned the existence of a GOD, I questioned the validity of the handwritten, copied, edited, redacted, and interpreted book being a verbatim record of words spoken by GOD to a scribe. The same GOD, by the way, was able to make a written account of his "commands" without aid of a surrogate writer - TWICE! And my query was why that same GOD, who can read and write although the vast majority of his creation could not, didn't either 1 - write the bible or 2 - just put the information in the psyche of the brain that the GOD created and designed to have free will. And that in itself is a paradox. Why would you give an animal free will then write a code of conduct that strictly outlines it's expected behavior and punishments for failure to comply?

Almost forgot, if the question of GOD existence had been answered 5000 years ago, why would someone feel the need to supply "PROOF" today?

Perhaps you, not knowing my mind, fail to understand that perhaps it isn't a disbelief in GOD but a belief that the "word of GOD" has been adulterated or invented by men in order to reign and tax people.

I've read the bible many times and read the hand of man every time. And the only thing more full of doublespeak and contradiction is a vehement response supplied by a "believer" (who is a Fallen-Man and small minded just like me ). Whether through misunderstanding or contrivance, you are confusing the doubt of the authenticity of the bible with atheism.

It is an artifice.

We are all born with an innate sense of compassion and right and wrong. Therein lies our "GOD" programming. Simple enough answer to my own question.

We don't need to follow some stringent set of rules and give the "church" the fruits of our labor, our goods, or our money...what would the creator of all need with cash and a bag of onions?? Men want cash, even wrote some junk about love of money being the root of evil to get people to hand it over to them.

My "disingenuous aims" are no less or greater than yours. Would you change your mind after hours of debate? I know the answer to that - NO. Then why should you expect me to? Because you have arbitrarily predetermined that you are right?

Come on, man!

But all in all, "donations" to a church should be going to help other's in need, people that go to the church for help, random acts of kindness from people they see in need, ect. If your church doesn't do that, I'm sorry to hear. But those donations to the church from the congregation every Sunday is suppose to be going towards what the church is about and of course to pay the monthly bills for the church water,power, ect. And that is exactly what the church is about, it's not just a place to "visit" on Sunday to hear some kind of sermon. It's only by culture it has become that way.

And it's never the fruits of the "church". It's always the fruits of the Lord, as the church is suppose to do as Christ has told. Therefore any instruction, direction, or action done by the church is only told to be done by Jesus himself.

the majority of these taxes are used to build "Crystal Cathedrals", buy jets, cars, office buildings, pay exorbitant salaries.

BTW, and not that it matters, but the Sabbath was biblically observed on Saturday, not Sunday.

Churches are run by men, not the "Lord".

True, tithes are not "donations" to the church, they are donations to those people that need the money. Not the facility of the church itself, but for the one's that come to the church for help.



First thing, how do you know this? Are you present when all these churches around the world spend their money? Secondly, what's it actually matter? How is it any of your choice/opinion, ect on where your donation is sent? If your/the church is not donating properly and or not donating, or whatever may be the case, first thing I'm sorry to hear this. But it will be them that has to face it come judgement time rather then just giving say $5.



Very true, that's why pentecostal/7th day adventist celebrate sabbath on Saturday/go to church Saturday. Goes a bit off topic, but I don't believe any singular denomination has it right, but they all do in their own various ways. Wish they would come together and discuss. As baptists speak strongly bout Jesus being God in comparison to other denominations. And 7th day and pentecostal celebrate sabbather Saturday, ect ect.



And they will have their reward from the Lord my friend :).

NeutralZone2 said:


Conrad_73:

Of course Moses wrote Deuteronomy 34:5-10. He had been informed by Jehovah at Numbers 20:12 that both he and his brother Aaron would die and not be permitted to enter the Promised Land, because of their behavior in not giving credit to Jehovah for the miracle with the water. This was on the occasion when the Israelites, after being released from slavery to Egypt, turned on Moses and Aaron, accusing them of bringing them out of Egypt to die of thirst. Notice below. Take particular note at what God told Moses and Aaron at verse 12.

Numbers 20:2-4, 9-12
"2 Now there proved to be no water for the assembly, and they began to congregate themselves against Moses and Aaron. 3 And the people went quarreling with Moses and saying: 'If only we had expired when our brothers expired before Jehovah! 4 And why have you men brought Jehovah's congregation into this wilderness for us and our beasts of burden to die here?' 9 So Moses took the rod from before Jehovah, just as he had commanded him. 10 After that Moses and Aaron called the congregation together before the crag, and he proceeded to say to them: 'Hear, now, you rebels! Is it from this crag that we shall bring out water for you?' 11 With that Moses lifted his hand up and struck the crag with his rod twice; and much water began to come out, and the assembly and their beasts of burden began to drink. 12 Later Jehovah said to Moses and Aaron: 'Because you did not show faith in me to sanctify me before the eyes of the sons of Israel, therefore you will not bring this congregation into the land that I shall certainly give them.'"


Sure enough, as prophesied, Aaron died before he reached the Promised Land. And guess what? Moses and Aaron were given advance warning of Aaron's eminent death. Notice below at verse 24:

Numbers 20:23-24
"23 Then Jehovah said this to Moses and Aaron in Mount Hor by the border of the land of Edom: 24 'Aaron will be gathered to his people. He will not enter the land that I will give to the Israelites, because you both rebelled against my order regarding the waters of Meribah. 25 Take Aaron and his son Eleazar and bring them up into Mount Hor. 26 Remove Aaron's garments and clothe Eleazar his son with them, and Aaron will die there."


So not only did Jehovah inform Moses exactly when Aaron would die, he told Moses where Aaron would die: up in Mount Hor.

Similarly, Jehovah informed Moses ahead of time that his death was eminent. This information was given to Moses when he and the other Israelites reached the plains of Moab. Moses was allowed by God to climb a mountain from which he could see the Promised Land, but he did not die immediately after that, based on the wording used in the scriptural account. Notice below where the words are all caps and bolded at verse 5.]


(Deuteronomy 34:4-5, 7)
"{4} And Jehovah went on to say to him [Moses]: 'This is the land about which I have sworn to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, saying, "To your seed I shall give it." I have caused you to see it with your own eyes, as you will not cross over there.' {5} AFTER THAT Moses the servant of Jehovah died there in the land of Moab at the order of Jehovah. 7 And Moses was a hundred and twenty years old at his death. His eye had not grown dim, and his vital strength had not fled."

See where it says "after that"? That expression does not tell us how much time passed before Moses actually died. But it was more than enough time for Moses to write the few lines required to tell the reader that he died and to write it in the past tense--under divine inspiration.


NeutralZone2