Hell,just came across a thread on here about one's love about their own nation.

I saw someone therein giving many reason for why he don't love his motherland,his own nation!!That was an awful experience for me as me too belong to the same nation.

I wonder how can one be so selfish & thankless when it comes to think about your own motherland!

You too must be belonging to some nation,there too must be many systems that you don't like,many people those you really hate! so don't you love your nation at all?

Which nation do you talk about? The Nation of Islam?


I have no problem whatsoever abandoning my country. I am Jewish, and I am also Hungarian, both by blood. I hate with a passion both those nations, because when I have to commit, I think how much Jews dislike haughty Hungarians and how much Hungarains hate dirty Jews.

This is not a joke, people, this is true. I am a contrarian thinker, even when it comes to patriotism.

Interestingly, I am also proud of both heritage. I enjoy speaking the world's harders language, Hungarian, and I enjoy being a smart, shrewd and wise Jew. I enjoy having my birth language shape my mind, as it did to all Hungarian-speaking people, to understand math and be good at it. I also enjoy being blessed to be included in a people which makes no distinction among its members, and there is no in, and there is no out of the group. You can be an atheist, a Kohen, an Ashkenazi, a relgious one of all kinds of severety of following the rules for Jews by their holy book, the Talmud, and yet you are and alwasy will be a Jew, even if you dance on the top of your head to beg them to release you. I enjoy the cultural affinity with other Jews -- we understand each other on a very basic, deep level which I could never achieve with other nationalities, incl. Hungarians. I have had two men in the New World as my best friends, only these two, and they were both Jewish.

But God, I hate Jews. They sacrifice all civility for their patriotism, they sacrifice all common sense for they believe they are God's chosen people. That's crap, and crap that hurt their own chances in this physical world. but they are boneheaded, and I hate jews for their bone-headedness.

And by George I hate Hungarians. They are argumentative, they are bossy, obnoxious, and give too much hoot about honour and their mothers.

If you tell a Hungarian that his mother is stupid, you are a dead man within a minute, and the guy will march into jail with his head held proudly up. Nobody will bother him in jail. The culture is that strong about honour. I hate that.

I like Hungarians for their inventive minds, for always trying and succeeding to find a bridge to smooth over difficulties. Did you know, for instance, that "religious tolerance" was a Hungarian invention? It came about in the mid-fifteen hundreds, when a large part of the country was populated all of a sudden by Catholics, by Kalvinists, and by Muslims, and they each wanted to slash the throats of the other two. Hungarian parliament at the time decreed that religious belief is not a matter of will, but of a set attitude, which is set before the person develops a will. So they decreed that killing each other is not a sensible thing to do, because nobody can be faulted for what he believes in. The bill was ratified, by a large margin, law was made.

This bill could not have been introduced without the Kalvinist spirit of ''Pre-determination of the will by God'' and this I mention to show that the idea of the law did not come out of a vacuum. But a good thing was borne out of it, because Hungarians made a good use of it.

Also, did you know, that in the same parliament a few generations later, there was a vote one day, and everybody voted `yes`, but two guys (by a show of hands) voted "no", and the two guys were cut up into little pieces by the sword-carrying other voters, in a murderous frenzy borne of anger.

Well,Yours seems to be an exceptional case,wux.

I can see your condition like that of a child of separated mom & dad.

I think it's entirely possible not to love your mother country. Maybe not common, but I don't think it makes anyone a bad person if they don't. It's also possible to love it but not like it or approve of its laws, for instance. I think criticizing people for how they feel is generally a bad idea. Feelings aren't under our rational control.

I have many questions becasue I have hard time understanding what creates nationalism (or love of the 'motherland). Maybe you can me understand.

First, do you think the terms ‘motherland’ and ‘nationalism’ are the same thing? Is the motherland a ‘nation’ with a specific geographic area confined within the borders that we see on a map? If so, does it matter for how long those borders have been consistent and who decided where those borders would be?

Does the term, motherland, include a cultural heritage and if so, should it matter how many cultures over what period of time have influenced the culture into which one have been born and raised?

Should love of motherland, or nationalism, include specific religious beliefs and if so, should it matter how many religious beliefs exist within the motherland? If more than one religion co-exists peacefully in the motherland with equality under the laws of the land, is that something to be take pride in? Or does it matter how long the beliefs in a nation have been a consistent (unchanging) part of the overall culture of the motherland?

Do you feel that your own identity (your sense of who you are) is tightly bound by certain characteristics of the nation in which you were born? If so, please explain what it is that makes you and every other person in your specific nation the same, and why do you think those things are different from people in every other nation?

Hey there,First of all I wish to thank you for your response & few thought provoking questions.

Yes,to me motherland & nationalism are same.

Yes,for me mother land is natural habitat for me.

For me,the consistency of those borders entirely depends on our love for motherland.If we are not respecting & loving her boundaries,not able & willing to protect them,then that day is not far when imperialist nations would destroy them.

I don't wish to comment about other nations but I'm very well aware of the national defense policies of my nation,we are never interfering in internal matters of other nations except they ask for the help to maintain peace.My nation respects other nations boundary as well.

If your question is regarding humanity approach beyond the boundaries,then NO,I don't confine myself with national boundaries.First of all I'm a human being,then I'm an Indian,then I belong to particular
region,religion & class.Being a part of each of those,I feel proud ab
out them,while not liking few of the tradition or general approach they each have it becomes my duty to put in my best effort to try changing those but it don't mean that I shall hate them for those reason,I just can't hate.



Yes,motherland term includes cultural heritage too by all means.


In my opinion one's Love of motherland should be separated from religious beliefs,no matter how many religions exist in it.Yes,if many religions are able to flourish strongly & peacefully within same land then definitely it should be proud for everyone as it indicates humanity.Unless we value good things,bad things can't be discouraged.

Survival of the beliefs & tradition don't matter much for me,rather I love advancement with time without forgetting our culture,motherland & society.


I feel,not just mine but every human being's identity is bound with nation.It is obvious that people belonging to same nation are more similar with each other in more ways than with other nations people.
Skin colour,physic,language,culture,habits,hobbies,passion,food habits etc. are few examples.

Thank you for considering all of my questions. You have answered them thoughtfully.

I quoted your last answer because because it shows how similar we all are no matter what nation we call home.

I think it's more important to recognize why nationalism tends to separate us and the best way to do that is to show why nationalism tends to make us similar.

No one should have to be enemies just because we love so many things about our different countries. Rather than fight others over our differences, we should all be fighing to make differences in our own countries especially about good communication and bridging cultural differences with tolerance.

Amen....

I respect your thoughts & I hope you understand that my thoughts & approach about the topic are not any different than you.

Yes,We all are similar,we all are social animals-human beings.

In my opinion nationalism is loving one's motherland.Loving something don't mean hating something else.

yes,it is common tendency of people to exhibit their love for their nation by cursing or hating other nations,but that is what in-matured & crazy people do,wise & peaceful people always respect other nations while loving their own country.

still trying to figure out why you think everyone is suppose to love their home country? seems like most people that are here in the states left their home country for a reason.

Whether resident or non resident,I think every human being ( Sorry living being) has a compassion for their mother land NORMALLY.

For REASON part I will say there is always some reason for every relocation.I mean,not necessary that they left their mother land as they don't love her.

I prefer to have compassion for the planet as a whole and the people on it. Having some sort of motherland love to me just adds to separate us. Not saying I would trash it, but why focus on it.

I can understand your feelings ,mine too are not much different.

Actually it is more about performance of our duties & responsibilities.

Loving the planet is good thing.

My point is about the people who hate their mother land for what it is.They conveniently forget that they are the part of the system & are responsible somehow for what they are blaming.

Pl. do not color the picture as if I'm encouraging grouping or dividing human beings by boundaries.That is already done by people.

MissedABeat's got it right. We share this planet together. I don't feel Canada is one to cram our patriotism down anyone's throat. At least, not until hockey season starts, eh.

This strikes me as dubious. I mean, if that is true, then it would only follow that all the folk who left Germany during the rise and reign of the third reich are somehow responsible for what was happening in their "motherland" and that they've conveniently forgotten that responsibility. I would think that if those folk had any say in the matter, then things would've turned out much differently. You're saying that all citizens of every "motherland" are equally responsible for the way a country turns out. I strongly disagree. To quite the contrary, it seems to me that you're not taking into consideration the fact that not all citizens have a say in how their "motherland" is governed. IOW, you're presupposing all "motherlands" are democratic in tradition. India is. The US is. Not all countries are.

There are many nations where the citizens do not have much say in what is happening in the government. In such countries, one can grow tired and weary of the actions of that government without ever having the ability to directly and legally influence the way things are to any significant degree. Goverment can change a country to the point where some citizens are no longer happy with or proud of the country to which they belong. One leader can do that much. In such cases, I would say that there is nothing wrong with NOT loving one's "motherland". I mean, why should a German-Jew love his "motherland" if s/he were born in 1925 and lived in Berlin until Hitler came into power and beyond?

I didn't say that everyone is equally responsible for what their mother land is,rather I said SOMEHOW....meaning may be less or may be more...but they are necessarily responsible.Anyway as u r giving an extreme example of autocrat hitler I will adhere to gandhian thought"Those who bears injustice without opposing / fighting are equally responsible for the same."

Those who hates whole country for some one's deeds are foolish & very selfish too.

I know what you said. Your argument treats loyalty to one's home country as though it ought be the number one priority for loyalty. I disagree, and have given good reason why I do. I've yet to see good reason given for your assertions otherwise.

You're just plain wrong prashant01. Everyone is not necessarily responsible for what happens in their home country. You're wrongfully presupposing that everyone has an influence regarding that.

Prashant, this is one of those things that we call "culture shock". Sometimes going from an incredibly rich country to a horribly poor country can do this to humans; sometimes going from dirt poor country to a rich country can do it.

But your culture shock is different in this instance. In your background loyalty to your motherland was unquestioned. Nobody questioned it. Not the richest and most influential, all the way down to the pariahs.

In Western cultures the shock hits you, because here the loyalty is not that strongly expected. In all Westerns countries people can opt out of compulsory military service and perform voluntary slave labour for two years. It's called "doing conscientious refusal".

In other times, one half of the country wants this, and the other half, that. They are the same nation, of the same blood, and yet one side wants the country to stay a kingdom, the other side, wants the country to become a republic. The two sides grab weapons and fight each other. This is called "rebellion" by the men on the king's side, by the rebellious ones, it's called "revolution". There is also the nation's own in-war, the civil war, in which no class struggle takes place, nobody wants to overthrow the establishment, but wants to establish rules of conduct in business which affect those who don't want that rule, and very adamantly don't want that rule. Then the two sides duke it out with weapons and armies.

So if everyone is responsible for following a common goal, then civil war and revolutions would never happen. Yet they happen, ergo, it can't be expected of all members of any given society or country or nation to only fight on one united side of the country.

Nop Creative,you are wrong.

Somehow everyone is responsible for the condition of their habitat.May be some people are just BREATHING & not even using water of homeland,still u know,they are polluting air & consuming oxygen.....

....I hope u got my point now....

Sorry wux,but love for mother land or at least not hating the mother land has nothing to do with COMMON GOAL.

So, because the German Jews breathed they are somehow responsible for the state of Germany during the third reich?

I cannot continue this utterly ridiculous conversation.

To each their own, I suppose.