Due to this thread I have come to realise how deeply this issue affects me. Tears, frustration & feelings of inadequacy have poured out of me.Some posts unlocked all the emotions I have had towards some who have ignorantly judged me in the past. Freeing!

I may have been projecting my anger and frustration by being defensive.

Must be time for a cup of tea then

Unless something stronger comes to mind. I call it sanity juice

Lol. I think that release of pent up emotions did it.

You know, being a parent is one of the few jobs that come without some sort of training, and being a single parent is even harder.
I love my children madly, I don;t always like them
There will always be times when you would like to just walk away, we all would, sometimes being a Mum sucks
My son Who is 17 is watching his 16 year old brother going through puberty and asking me if he was as bad, one started early one late And I just nodded my head.
My children have 5 others to take their frustration out on, it could be why I don't cop it.

Never feel inadequate, (bummer can't spell that word) never look back and think you should have done something differently.

Every child has a different personality, every child will try different things and react differently so no parent can tell you what you should do with yours, we can only offer advice on what has worked with ours.

It is very easy when you have an easy child as they respond and follow what the books says they should do.

When you have one who fights at every step you are constantly banging your head against a brick wall,

I know that people talk about fear helping, and in someways I agree in some ways I don.t.
My children grew up in and abusive home with a father who was addicted to drugs and alcohol, they learnt early to stick together and protect each other until we got out. They feared their father but never respected him and if we had stayed they would have done everything they could to fight against him.

I'm not saying that smacking is wrong but at 13 it is really to old to do anything like that, she would hate you.

I would never ever tell a child that if they don;t conform that they have to leave or that if they choose to do something that they are not welcome back.
To me that would be like saying I dont love you enough to let you stay if you dont do what you are told. Please don;t get me wrong it may work for some, but for me it isnt acceptable. A child needs to know that you are their rock, even if at times you crumble you will still be there for them, that they can always come back no matter what happens.

Really the best you can do is try whatever seems to help, do what you need to to keep going, be her friend and her Mum, laugh with her whenever you can and just be there.

I want to say thank you to all who have posted and pesonally messaged me. It means so much to me to know I am not the only one with a beautiful headstrong child. You have inspired me, which will help in the hard days. Hugs.

You are right...I will never understand.....

They didn't invent "ODD", "ADD", "ADHD"....till I was 30.

Before that, it was a good kid or a bad kid.

Put it on drugs....seems to be a popular alternative.

oh Krupa,,,,you are on a roll today babe,,,,

I love you Girl.....don't make me spank you.

:)

Yep, they tend to hand drugs out pretty easily.

They tried to label one of my boys with all of these stupid letters and wanted him to be on some drug. His only problem was that he was into everything, couldnt sit still or concentrate for long and seemed to constantly be into some sort of mischief or hurting himself.
I couldnt put him on medication, but did have to be very firm with him, yep and he did have his behind smacked.
but at 16 he is a genious with fising anything eletrical or mechanical, he can problems solve, he just cant sit still or stay out of mischief.
But he is also the most active and entertaining of all my children.

He also still gets the most warnings and has the biggest boundries in place.

Lol Krupa. My daughter is a great kid. She just likes to get her own way. Btw we are doing great.

Good to hear Doll.


Please know that at no point did I ever mean any disrespect to you...all I know is my own personal up bringing...lots of love...lots of the bible...lots of the belt.

I know you got a hard job. I, in no way meant to diminish anything about your situation.

I just think kids need a good belting when they earn it.

Krupa. Soufie chose well. You are a honey.

I know. Thank god I am so humble about the hugeness of my greatness.

:)

One thing is certain krupa... Soufie will never have a dull day lol.

In my gut I am not sure I really buy into the whole ODD idea. I say that as probably one of the most singularly defiant people in the world you could meet. LOL yea like that is a surprise. But I will explain why.

First I think it is imparitive to say that is not a shot at either the professionals, or the parents. or even the people who belive this explanation of why some individuals don't fit in the box of what we call "normal" behavior but that it is ok and probably isn't going to move anthing good by putting a negative lable on it. I think it is human, even loving, to want to have a reason for things we don't understand and or can't seem to fix or make fit but I don't see that it is a disability and should not be treated as one. Especially if the behavior appears or does cause our children pain or endanger them we need to mold it but not break it down. Which labeling it this way it often does.

Any mature person knows there are times when the "fight" response is not the right response for the best interest of a person. Sometimes it is because it is not the best interest of the group. Something REALLY hard for a child that is so strong willed that they see themself as the center of the universe. An easy trap to fall into if you have a challengeing personality going on with a child. Trying to mold this to maybe courage and cooperation and turn whatever you can to a courageous independence rather than a submission which just doesn't fit with defiance/defiant mind set then everybody wins.

Many oppositional people actually intensely love their families and sometimes it is fighting to get their way because they really think that is best for everyone and they just can't see it any other way. Age and experience is something that they have to be wooed into because you will not getthem to submit no matter how you try to crush them.

Sometimes it is and oppositional personality crying out for family acceptance. I believe even maternal/paternal bonding. It is hard for Mom's/Pop's to not cringe and withdraw when a powerful personality is coming out of a child; even their own infant and few people admit this. But kids peg this almost the moment they jump out of the womb. It is a natural thing to sense when you are challengeing someone rather than enraptureing them and children want the later and really don't know how to cope with the former. It scares them. If you listen to a child in full blown tantrum you can hear when the rage skips back and for between fear and panic.

I really believe some oppositional behavior is a kid saying "I know things are out of control here and I am going to make this bad enough you have to fix it." Some kids will actually self medicate by amping themself up to such a level of hysteria so that exhaustion finally takes over or they have to be withdrawn from over stimulateing environments.

It infuriates me when drugs and alcohol are suggested for families who have this situation to deal with. First the drugs generally are poorly managed and generally only for the comfort of "others" usually teachers in over crowded classrooms that don't have anymore training about behavior of children than parents often have. Yes teacher may have a check list of skills that kids are suppose to have and their feet are to the fire but few skills how to work with kids that don't fit into a set mold and little of the knowlege base of the out of school world the kid lives in.

That single mindedness that some kids have called "oppositional" behavior can acomplish phenominal things when it is channelled but it takes really strong parenting and very creative leadership.

But my heart tells me there is ALWAYS a reason when a person becomes oppositional. They may not be able to tell you what it is but it is there.

And rarely is there a reason that a person becomes oppositional because they just "want" to. For one thing there is very little pay off to do something just because you want too.

I think a lot of oppositional behavior starts very very young. I am not even sure it is not part of a developemental prematurity of the nervous system. If you have been around a lot of tiny babies you can spot a baby that is just hypersensitive or hyper allert. They wake easier, are more aware of hunger, have more trouble suckleing, are harder to passify. I have often thought it is likely related to allergies too. If you watch and oppositional child they cringe, squint, grit their teeth, rock back and forth, shiver, shake, blink, clench, twist their hair, wring their hands, have ear aches, sleep like a rock that has dropped from exhaustion, cry, scream, even hit themself. They have a very difficult time remember details and fitting into routines or changes of routines. Lot of parents report these behaviors in so called normal children but ODD kids parents/caregivers report a greater percentage and the behaviors become chronic. Which is NOBODY'S fault but gets analyized, critisized, and categorized which starts sliding down the slippery slope of blame. Helping no one.

People repeat what works. A child learns the power of a tantrum at basiclly the first tantrum. A few tantrums under their belt they have it fine tuned to and art form. And they learn that too often parents will fall into the trap of negotiateing with them. Or even useing their tantrums as an excuse not to do certain things. Way too much power for and immature person and a lot of additional stress on families. Little shock that marriages often crumble when amplifys the problems even more. A real reason for families to find peer support critical.

Some of the suggestions I have read in others threads make me wonder.

I think useing a belt or threats of "my way or the highway" with a child may show consequences for actions but are the actions things a parent wants to live with. I used to think better me paddleing my childs bum as preferable to a billy club upside the head but if you get in a war of the wills with a truely oppositional child they don't care. A spanking is a misquitoe bite to them and they are generally smart enough to know that jail is not going to be a party but they think they are invinceable and will survive it. You take a truely opositional child to a scared straight program it will have only a marginal impression on them. They have been internally exiled so much that they just see it as another thing that someone is going to try and force on them and they will "just do it."

The concept of trying to catch them being good is the most effective tack I have seen so far. And challengeing them physically in a positive way. I am not suggesting false praise but you can tell a child how happy their sucesses make you. Point out when they do do well. And I am not saying excuse bad behavior but not beating every no, don't, stop into them before it is absolutely needed. EVEN oppositional kids need to have a much larger dose of "yes, good job, you can, than the bounderies they often have trouble staying with in. It is really hard but parents can and need to try to put thier kids in environments where they can stay with in the boundries but still excell. Creating team-manship, companionship, and bonding rather than contest, competition, or challenge. A heritical concept in our culture where often winning is at all cost.

Awesome post Pacificstar. I personally dont smack or belt as some do. I dont believe it is effective with s/w kids. She does not need meds. She knows who she is and where she is going in life, so that is good enough for me :-)

..i tolerated it for a while ..and then i fed him the same thing he fed me..and asked him how he liked it..also told him i hope he has to deal with the same one day..and be it known the curse of the tombs is a strong one...