That was pretty long so I'm going to reply to it in certain sections.

1) A number close just means you got the girls phone number. Really, it's not a big accomplishment because most phone numbers are flakes. You don't need to be a PUA to get a fake number. Adoption opener is just a way to initiate a conversation. Kiss close is getting a kiss. If a girl doesn't want to kiss you, she isn't going to. A kiss close isn't a way of manipulating her into it. And people find it fascinating when someone who has never met them before can tell something about them. The best friend test demonstrates this.

2) Maybe we have more in common than you think. I'm currently attempting to open my own business with a friend (not a PUA business, it's for medical billing). "I respond to my clients as people and business owners with issues and needs particular to them." Women of beauty are approached and hit on all the time. What they need is somebody fun and interesting. A lot of PUA routines are just to get your foot in the door. Once you've reached the social hook point and have been accepted into the group, then you can be yourself. Openers and routines demonsrate value to create the intial attraction. The comfort phase is when you can sit down with a woman and discuss whatever you want. At this point, you can find out she doesn't posess the qualities you're looking for, and at the very worst you've made a new friend.

3) As for the rating system, sadly, men are visual thinkers. A woman's looks are one of the first things we notice. It's amazing though that most beautiful women don't have the personality you're looking for in a partner. But looking around a room, whether you want to admit it or not, you use a woman's looks to judge what you want. If there is no physical attraction, you'll probably have little interest in meeting her. In all fairness though, PUA's have a code to follow with the rating system. No woman is ever rated below a 6..ever.

I'm not trying to call you ignorant. We are a few decades apart in age and the times we grew up in were different. I was always told be nice to women, buy her dinner, etc. But the reality is women today aren't looking for a push over. The basic theory behind it is called the Cat String Theory. If you put a string in front of a cat and pull it away, the cat will chase it. If you drop the string on the floor, the cat will get bored and walk away. Women just want a challenge. It doesn't mean a guy has to be an asshole or manipulate her. Men can be challenging in a fun, playful way.

I think it really is the generation gap here. There's different beliefs about relationships and the "rules" for dating have changed over the years.

The first guy you quoted just initiated a chat with different women, could've gone farther with them, but decided not to. What's wrong with that? He had a good time, met some new friends, but based on his own feelings he felt they weren't relationship type.

The second guy you quoted said he was no longer going to use the HB rating system. I respect him for that. When he also says "However, there is a cost" he is absolutely right. Some people will take advantage of the method and solely use it to get with women. However, the majority of men that discover PUA's use the method to find that special someone. They become more social, meet more people, and eventually do find that person. Style and Mystery are the 2 top pick-up artists in the world. Style found that someone he was looking for and left the PUA community. But if he hadn't learned it, he never would've met her.

But really, after reading what those 2 men put, how can you criticize them? What did they do wrong? If anything, they were respectful towards women like you claim men should be.

Who says any of us are running "game" on women here? Negative talk? Don't you think you are being negative by criticizing this without even giving it a chance? Look into it. Really learn and understand what being a PUA is about. Then, if you still don't agree with it, that's your personal choice. What if, instead of calling it the pick-up arts, we referred to it as the venusian arts (translated: the art of love). You would probably have a different view of it. You're judging us based on the stereotype that the term pick-up artist is just a "player" out to sleep with as many women as possible.

Every guy gets approach anxiety and psyches themself out. Mystery's method teaches what he calls the cold approach. You simply act as you're going to walk past the group, then over the shoulder turn and ask a question like it just came into your mind. Then you stack forward into more material and it becomes a situation where they find you interesting and don't mind talking to you. At the end of the night, they'll be glad they met you.

That is the same Mike Long. That is funny. But hey, most pickup artists used to be geeks and still are at heart. Mystery used to be a D&D player.

What does that Mike Long look like? The one Mystery teamed with is a balding guy with glasses and is an internet marketer.

Hahaha, I'd love to see that. Did they say who won? I know Tyler spent a lot of time learning how to beat AMOGs, but I think Mystery would be better at it. He's got better frame control

If you say one interesting thing, people will say "That was interesting". If you say 10 interesting things in a row, people will say "You're interesting". PUA techniques teach you different things that you can use to start a conversation and have the woman maintain interest in you. This is part of the attraction phase. Once you build attraction you can move onto comfort. This is when you can find out the real her and you can talk about things such as literature and board games. The problem is most guys try to start in the Comfort phase before building attraction.

If you say one interesting thing, people will say "That was interesting". If you say 10 interesting things in a row, people will say "You're interesting". PUA techniques teach you different things that you can use to start a conversation and have the woman maintain interest in you. This is part of the attraction phase. Once you build attraction you can move onto comfort. This is when you can find out the real her and you can talk about things such as literature and board games. The problem is most guys try to start in the Comfort phase before building attraction.

Both of them are horrible. They took what Mystery took 10 years developing by himself and used him as a stepping stone to steal it and make money off of his method. Mystery also teamed up with Mike Long and started Area 51 Lifestyle.

Most men are shy and self conscience. So you suggest sitting around waiting for the right person to come into your life? Why not learn the skill set to approach a group of people? Maybe the person you've been looking for to have that real and honest relationship is standing in an aisle at the grocery store. If you don't know how to approach her, you might never meet her. Or if you do meet somebody, why can't you know how to do certain things to excite her by having fun? Do you think you should just buy her gifts (ie. dinner, flowers, etc.) to get her attention? Too many people see the term pick-up artist and assume it's just some guy out for sex. It goes a lot deeper than picking up women. You just won't understand that until you look into it for yourself.

Tyler may be a mPUA, but he's, for lack a better word, a jerk. He stole Mystery's method and tore down his social status when they were out. He broke down every part of Style's game, copied it, and ripped him down too. On top of that, Tyler and Papa took over Project Hollywood and RSD even though both of them were the brain child of Mystery.

The pickup arts aren't just about getting women, it's about creating a lifestyle. It's about making changes to become a better person. What's wrong with building self confidence and learning to interact with people? Learning better body language and getting involved in more activities? People call it a game, but really, life is a game. You just have to know how to play it.

Like David D. says, most guys just don't get it. But it's true. The system does work. It's a combination of things a man can do to trigger a woman's emotional circuitry that makes her attracted to him.

True. I think the problem is that since it's a dating site, people tend to think you're after just one thing. But if you're on the site, it means you're looking for something whether it's a friendship or a relationship. It just interests me when people can say they are open people, but turn around and do things like that. I'm not saying they are bad people. I just think they need to re-evaluate themselves.

Thank you

I was just on vacation in Tennessee and I saw a Krystals down there. I went inside and it truely did look like a low budget copy of White Castle. I'm so glad they had a Wendy's next door

It is hypocritical. But that should tell you something about that person. And is that the type of person you really want to associate with and get to know better? Someone so judgemental that they blow you off for trying to say hello? Letting something like that affect your emotions means you're giving control to someone who doesn't deserve it. It really is their loss. They had a perfectly good opportunity to meet a new friend and possibly something more and they blew it.

Why? Who are they to make you feel irritated? If they don't want to get to know you, then that's their problem.

When people say they are very open and like meeting new people, yet when you attempt to initiate a normal conversation with them, they ignore you. I was just wondering if anyone else finds that as amusing as I do.

Although I did laugh at what you said about Soccer and Basketball, according to you, the only "true" sport is football. Baseball isn't meant to be a contact sport, but it does happen such as railroading the catcher or breaking up a double play. And if you're going to call baseball players wussies, you should be calling football players wussies for wearing pads then. You should be a rugby fan since it's football without such extensive padding.