The right wing crazies want to dismiss the Occupiers the same as they want to dismiss the poor and middle class of this country as unmotivated and lazy.

Showing, of course, that they have never experienced being poor nor being in a life situation that caused them to have to ask for help.
I would never wish it on them but they obviously cannot and will not understand what it is like to be the 98 percent.

Showing how they need to not be put in power in this country since they do not and cannot relate to the majority.

To hear some man tell we are just second rate huh? A semen depository and once deposited it is our responsibility what happens from it. They have been taught that women are the control of their penises and it is our fault what happens from it getting hard as that is our fault too,

Those are the ones who are the problems in our society today.

In answer to your title of the thread, no he probably wasn't against abortion since it did exist in his day

I would say that men have been irresponsibly assigning women the responsibility of bringing children in the world or not for a long time.

So they did not even consider what they may be doing to stop that unwanted reminder of them from coming in to fruition

AH but Wux it may not have existed in the men's minds back then but women on the other hand have been using herbs to abort pregnancies for as far back as women have been able to know of herbs.

I believe the Chinese have the oldest known mixture that was used.

This is not the whole article but enough to let you know what I am speaking of.

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/abortion/a/ancientabortion.htm

Abortion in the Ancient and Premodern World
A History of Traditional Methods

From Pat Fox,
See More About:

abortion history
reproductive rights
ancient history


While modern technology is quite new in historical terms, the practice of abortion and menstrual "regulation" is ancient. Traditional methods have been handed down for hundreds of generations and herbal and other methods have roots in the distant past. It should be noted that many ancient and medieval methods and preparations are extremely risky and many are not at all effective, so experimentation is quite unwise.

We know abortion was practiced in biblical times from the passage in Numbers (note 1) where alleged infidelity is tested by giving an abortifacient potion to an accused pregnant woman. The "bitter water" used to "bring on the curse" may have been quinine or several of other herbal and natural concoctions that are considered emmagogues, or drugs that bring on menstruation.

Such herbs and other concoctions are in reality often implantation inhibitors or abortifacients. According to the biblical tale, if the woman had not been unfaithful, the drug would not work and the pregnancy was assumed to be the husband’s child. If she miscarried, she was considered guilty of adultery and no questionable parentage ensued.

Abortion was recorded in 1550 B.C.E. in Egypt, recorded in what is called the Ebers Papyrus (note 2) and in ancient China about 500 B.C.E. as well (note 3). In China, folklore dates the use of mercury to induce abortions to about 5,000 years ago (note 4). Of course, mercury is extremely toxic.

Hippocrates also offered abortion to his patients despite being opposed to pessaries and potions which he considered too dangerous. He is recorded as having instructed a prostitute to induce abortion by jumping up and down. This is certainly safer than some other methods, but rather ineffective. It is also believed that he used dilation and curettage to induce abortions as well (note 5). Abortion opponents often use the Hippocratic Oath of physicians as an argument against abortion per se, but the opposition had only to do with patient safety.

Herbal methods were likely more common and many of the traditional herbs and mixtures are in use even today. Pennyroyal dates at least to the 1200’s when manuscripts show herbalists preparing it (note 6), but the oil is extremely dangerous and modern herbalists avoid it. Deaths from its use were recorded in the US in the 1990's.

A medieval herbal reference called De Viribus Herbarum referred to herbs to induce abortions even earlier in the 11th century. Pennyroyal was among the herbs mentioned but so were catnip, rue. Sage, savory, cypress, and hellebore (note 6). Some of the drugs are listed as emmagogues rather that explicitly as abortifacents, but since the most common cause of a late menstrual period is pregnancy, there is little doubt why they were prescribed and used. Hildegard of Bingen mentions the use of tansy to bring on menstruation.

Some herbs have been mentioned for centuries. One is a plant called the worm fern whose root is used to cause an abortion. It is telling that it was also known as "prostitute’s root" historically. Also used in the same area of Europe were thyme, parsley, lavender, and savin juniper. Even concoctions of camel saliva and deer hair were used (note 7).

The right of women to seek abortions was not restricted in many places until fairly recently, with most restrictions being related to the time of "quickening" or fetal movement. Even Plato proclaimed the right of women to seek early terminations of pregnancies in "Theaetetus", but specifically he spoke of the right of midwives to offer the procedure. In early times, most pregnancies were not managed by doctors so it was logical that abortion be provided by midwives and herbalists.

Other measures to induce abortions have included iron sulfates and chlorides, hyssop, dittany, opium, madder in beer, watercress seeds and even crushed ants. Probably the herbs most commonly mentioned were tansy and pennyroyal. We know that tansy was used from at least the Middle Ages. One of the most brutal methods was practiced in the Orient in ancient times by violently kneading or beating the abdomen to cause abortion, a procedure with great peril to the woman who used it. Even in the 20th century, women were still trying Hippocrates’ jumping up and down method, likely with as little success as their ancient sisters (note 8).

Wise women have found and used herbs and other preparations to manage their fertility for generations. Some concoctions were contraceptive in nature and others were abortifacients or designated emmagogues. The latter are now believed to have worked to prevent implantation, a sort of ancient morning after pill. What we know for sure is that in the past as well as now women have found ways to manage unwanted pregnancies.

It should be noted that many ancient and medieval methods and preparations are extremely risky and many are not at all effective, so experimentation is quite unwise. There are modern practitioners who do know the folk remedies that are both effective and safe and should be relied upon before even considering such methods. Of course, modern women also have the more familiar medical procedures to choose instead of ancient remedies.
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Going on the Christian version of what god would be if he/she/it existed, god would be liberal. The rich can't reach the kingdom of heaven per the bible nor can any human who condones killing of other humans. Jesus was a great supporter of helping the poor and downtrodden which would make him liberal. Even criminals were forgiven in Jesus' eyes making him liberal.

It is good that they are finally getting data on weed smoking and driving.

It has been needed for a long time and using the data that had both alcohol and weed can't be accurate. So it is good that they are starting to get the data of weed alone now.

Again it would suck to be with a man who believes what the OP has spouted off.

So I do feel sorry for those women.

If a man doesn't want a child he best be doing something to stop it from happening.

With the lunatic fringe options people have to choose from they will choose Obama even if they are not exactly happy with him. He is still the best choice.

You will waste your time on this one.

The title of the thread is fraudulent and the read is a waste of time.

Japan Airlines' CEO pays himself less than the pilots, takes the bus to work

By Cory Doctorow at 3:21 am Friday, Feb 25

When Japan Airlines hit hard times in 2009 and began to lay off its staff, JAL CEO Haruka Nishimatsu cut his own pay to less than that of his pilots and eliminated all his perks. He now rides public transit to the office and eats in the employee cafeteria, standing in line with his colleagues.

Japan Airline Boss Sets Exec Example (via Reddit)

http://boingboing.net/2011/02/25/japan-airlines-ceo-p.html

All the while American CEOs take government handouts to give themselves huge bonus'.

What is wrong with that picture?

I am learning.

Or we could legalize neutering men who won't control themselves (you know those ones who think women are the control of their penises, causing unwanted children, causing abortions to have to happen )so women won't have to worry about contraception.

I think that would be a better idea.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/04/fourth-amendment-email-2/

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/how_police_get_your_phone_records

This has that information and some other.

Yea veto but I don't think it will be a national decision made by congress. I think this one will be decided by the Supreme court like most discrimination laws have been.

As long as they are all of age and mental consent let them marry each other.

It is not my place to tell others who they can love and marry as long as they are of age and mental consent.

Did you know that in the US, once your email becomes 181 days old that law enforcement doesn't need a warrant to read/use it?

Do you know of anymore internet laws that are probably not well known?

But that is not what the law originally said.

If you can prove your citizenship each time they stop you then of course everyone should do it all the time. Do birth certificates prove that? So make sure you carry it. And the original copy from the vital statistics office too just like the pres had to have.

Not!