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Topic: Free Will?
no photo
Thu 11/22/12 06:19 PM



IMHO theory one is the only one that makes any real sense.

Theory three is a possible outcome to quantum theory, but I find it difficult to fathom billions of universes splitting apart every time someone changes their mind.

Theory two has already been argued very well and IMHO can be dismissed.

The reason I like theory one is because if the past cannot be changed and if by going into the past you cannot change the present then there is no evidence that we can change the future from the present any more than we could change the past.




Time does not exist.

Time travel, is not possible where it relates to events.

Once an event happens, it cannot be changed.

In the same respect there is a point of no return where a future event cannot be prevented.

RE: Drive you car off a cliff, and change your mind after a certain point, and you will still go off the cliff.


no photo
Thu 11/22/12 06:21 PM
The "multiverse" exists in the thought universe or mind worlds. They are the probabilities that do not manifest.


DaySinner's photo
Thu 11/22/12 07:04 PM
Edited by DaySinner on Thu 11/22/12 07:35 PM

Time does not exist.

Time travel, is not possible where it relates to events.

Once an event happens, it cannot be changed.

In the same respect there is a point of no return where a future event cannot be prevented.

RE: Drive you car off a cliff, and change your mind after a certain point, and you will still go off the cliff.





I have to agree with you. This is just my opinion and I hope I don't come off sounding too arrogant.

The past is gone which means it does not exist.
There is no destination to travel to.
The past only exists symbolically as a recorded memory.

In the same way, the future does not exist except as a prediction based on past experience which is also memory.

It's no wonder we run into some strange **** when we talk about time travel.


JustDukkyMkII's photo
Thu 11/22/12 09:13 PM
Edited by JustDukkyMkII on Thu 11/22/12 09:39 PM
We are now led into the world of probabilities wherein the nature of existence itself becomes a probability.

What happens when we consider the "present" to exist with probability 100% and the possible past & future branches to have "existences" based on their individual probabilities (which sum to 100%)? What we see as ourselves moving from past to future is really probabilities cohering into certainty. The "past" decoheres (becomes uncertain) while the "future" becomes more coherent, though only the present moment can be said to "really" exist.

In the time travel example, there are facts which can't be dismissed, not the least of which is that the traveller, was born (exists with 100% probability) and therefore had a living mother to birth him. This restricts the number of "timelines" he might have come from considerably. My own view is that he "decoheres" travelling into all his possible pasts, but in every one of them, he does not kill his mother. The probability of his doing that is zero.

Basically, I believe we leave a "trail" of collapsed wavefunctions "behind" us no matter which arrow of time we are guided by. Like the wake of a boat, those wavefunctions decohere over "time", leaving our reality afloat on a sea of uncertainty. We have the choice to pilot our boat in any direction we freely will it to go.

DaySinner's photo
Thu 11/22/12 11:53 PM
Nice. Esoteric yet poetic description.

TexasScoundrel's photo
Fri 11/23/12 12:34 AM


I have to agree with you. This is just my opinion and I hope I don't come off sounding too arrogant.

The past is gone which means it does not exist.
There is no destination to travel to.
The past only exists symbolically as a recorded memory.

In the same way, the future does not exist except as a prediction based on past experience which is also memory.

It's no wonder we run into some strange **** when we talk about time travel.




Time and space are the same things. It's only the way we experience them that make them seem different. The past is as real as up or left.

Conrad_73's photo
Fri 11/23/12 01:48 AM


I think free will is any action which goes against our primitive instincts. When the 17 year old girl throws herself at you, it's free will to refuse her advance, it's animal instinct to take her.


It's the instinct of self preservation showing up in a more complex way.
Instinct,unerring Knowledge!
How come some People kill themselves,others charge a Machinegun,or run into burning Buildings to save others!
What Instinct of Selfpreservation?

TexasScoundrel's photo
Fri 11/23/12 08:51 AM

Instinct,unerring Knowledge!
How come some People kill themselves,others charge a Machinegun,or run into burning Buildings to save others!
What Instinct of Selfpreservation?



People kill themselves usually due to some form of depression. An interesting side note is that people kill themselves at a higher rate in developed nations than they do in under developed nations.

Along with survival we also have an instinct for self sacrifice. Giving one's own life for the greater good.

DaySinner's photo
Sat 11/24/12 04:18 PM
Edited by DaySinner on Sat 11/24/12 04:26 PM

Time and space are the same things. It's only the way we experience them that make them seem different. The past is as real as up or left.


One of my favorite relativity scenarios is that of observers on a moving train and an observer on a platform outside the train. Say I am standing midway between the ends of one of the cars and there are two observers on each end of the car. We all know that if I simultaneously throw a ball to each observer in the car with me, they will see the ball arrive at each end of the car at the same time, which is what an observer outside the moving train will see. This is because the ball thrown toward the front of the train moves at, say 10mph + the speed of the train, and the ball moving to the back is moving at -10mph + the speed of the train. However, if I flip open my zippo lighter, the light from my lighter is known to travel at a constant speed regardless of the speed of the train. This means that although the observers inside the train see the light reach both ends of the car at the same time, an observer on the platform will see the light reach the back of the car before it reaches the front.(because the light has to catch up to front of the train which is moving away from the light, it has more distance to cover than the light traveling to the back of the car that is moving toward the light)

Events unfold differently depending your frame of reference. More specifically, there is more than one past. If you believe in time travel, you many have to use your fee will to decide which past to travel to.

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