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Topic: Is tap water safe to drink?
willing2's photo
Wed 04/16/14 06:06 PM
There's a saying in California and Oregon.

They don't trust any water that doesn't have chunks of corn in it.

no photo
Wed 04/16/14 07:13 PM

Fluoride is fluoride, a heavy metal, period.


That will come as a surprise to chemists, because fluoride is an anion of fluorine, and fluorine is a diatomic nonmetal gas.

Fluorine comes after oxygen on the periodic table of the elements.



Sure doesn't come as a surprise to most chemist.


Counter-intuitively, unlike the lower halides, the variety of possible salts containing true fluoride ions is rather restricted. Most metal fluorides are highly polar, covalently bonded molecular networks instead of ionic lattices. All of the alkali metal fluorides, and most of the alkali earth metal fluorides are true salts. In such true salts, fluoride typically assumes the primitive or face-centred cubic motifs. Fluoride is also found with weakly coordinating counter cations, such as in ammonium fluoride, in which it assumes the close-packed hexagonal motif. Under aqueous conditions, fluoride exists as a trigonal pyramidal-shaped hydrated complex, namely [F(H2O)3]-. Fluoride has the smallest monatomic, crystal and effective, ionic radii: 199 and 133 pm, respectively.



Concentrated fluoride solutions are toxic through dermal contact and must, therefore, be handled with appropriate care, since it causes skin irritation, eye damage, and irritation to mucous membranes. Latex gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber, are worn when handling fluoride compounds. The hazards of solutions of fluoride salts depend on the concentration, and counterion.

Concentrated fluoride solutions are handled in a fume hood because of the toxic vapours. Very dilute fluoride solutions are harmless. However, ingestion of stronger solutions are more dangerous to human and animal life.

Due to incompatibilities, it is recommended to keep fluoride salts away from acids.


But the part I really found interesting is:


Fluoride salts and hydrofluoric acid are the main fluorides of industrial value. Compounds with C-F bonds fall into the realm of organofluorine chemistry. The main uses of fluoride, in terms of volume, are in the production of cryolite, Na3AlF6. It is used in aluminium smelting. Formerly, it was mined, but now it is derived from hydrogen fluoride. Fluorite is used on a large scale to separate slag in steel-making. Mined fluorite (CaF2) is a commodity chemical used in steel-making.

Hydrofluoric acid and its anhydrous form, hydrogen fluoride, is also used in the production of fluorocarbons Hydrofluoric acid has a variety of specialized applications, including its ability to dissolve glass.


So as to the fluoride in water, definitely not the gas as that seems to be rare unto itself. So is it classified as a salt or metal flourides? But at this point, I don't care and will not bother to take time to find out. As such, I will stand corrected and concede the point.

All I care about is what is in the water, and on this I will stand on my point of the effects...


Are you aware of the health dangers of fluoride? Did you know that fluoride can damage fertility, destroy bones and cause early puberty in children?

Water fluoridation has been banned in many countries including: China, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Hungary, and Japan. Nearly all of Europe’s water supply is fluoride-free.

And yet, fluoride is omnipresent in the American food supply. It’s in our water, in juice, soda, wine and coffee, in soups and processed food, and in baby formula. The majority of American cities have fluoridated water.


This is from: Top 10 Dangers of Fluoride

And the one I find most appauling:


4. Fluoride and Brain Damage

"It is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain." — the National Research Council (2006)

The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) lists fluoride among about 100 chemicals for which there is "substantial evidence of developmental neurotoxicity." Experiments on animals reveal that fluoride accumulates in the brain and alters mental behavior (Mullenix 1995). There have been over 100 animal experiments showing that fluoride damages the brain and impacts learning and behavior.

Advocates of fluoridation counter that these animal studies are invalid because high doses of fluoride were used. However, it takes 5-20 times more fluoride to reach the same plasma levels in rats as in humans (Sawan 2010). One animal experiment found effects at very low doses of fluoride (Varner 1998). In this study, rats were fed for one year with 1 ppm fluoride in their water (the same amount used in tap water fluoridation), using either sodium fluoride or aluminum fluoride. These rats had changes to their kidneys and brains, an increased uptake of aluminum in the brain, and the formation of beta-amyloid deposits which are associated with Alzheimer's disease.


Wow, an uptake of metal, aluminum in the brain.

zzzippy56's photo
Wed 04/16/14 09:46 PM
I myself have a well and have had the water tested.. the report said its as pure as the best spring water.. I live on the very top of a mountain with the river 2000ft down in the canyon. I hit water at 90ft and im at 220ft... the water level never goes down at all even if it is summer and the well is working 24 7... I have been up here on king of the mountain ct. for 28 years now and love it here....

Conrad_73's photo
Thu 04/17/14 12:44 AM


Fluoride is fluoride, a heavy metal, period.


That will come as a surprise to chemists, because fluoride is an anion of fluorine, and fluorine is a diatomic nonmetal gas.

Fluorine comes after oxygen on the periodic table of the elements.



Sure doesn't come as a surprise to most chemist.


Counter-intuitively, unlike the lower halides, the variety of possible salts containing true fluoride ions is rather restricted. Most metal fluorides are highly polar, covalently bonded molecular networks instead of ionic lattices. All of the alkali metal fluorides, and most of the alkali earth metal fluorides are true salts. In such true salts, fluoride typically assumes the primitive or face-centred cubic motifs. Fluoride is also found with weakly coordinating counter cations, such as in ammonium fluoride, in which it assumes the close-packed hexagonal motif. Under aqueous conditions, fluoride exists as a trigonal pyramidal-shaped hydrated complex, namely [F(H2O)3]-. Fluoride has the smallest monatomic, crystal and effective, ionic radii: 199 and 133 pm, respectively.



Concentrated fluoride solutions are toxic through dermal contact and must, therefore, be handled with appropriate care, since it causes skin irritation, eye damage, and irritation to mucous membranes. Latex gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber, are worn when handling fluoride compounds. The hazards of solutions of fluoride salts depend on the concentration, and counterion.

Concentrated fluoride solutions are handled in a fume hood because of the toxic vapours. Very dilute fluoride solutions are harmless. However, ingestion of stronger solutions are more dangerous to human and animal life.

Due to incompatibilities, it is recommended to keep fluoride salts away from acids.


But the part I really found interesting is:


Fluoride salts and hydrofluoric acid are the main fluorides of industrial value. Compounds with C-F bonds fall into the realm of organofluorine chemistry. The main uses of fluoride, in terms of volume, are in the production of cryolite, Na3AlF6. It is used in aluminium smelting. Formerly, it was mined, but now it is derived from hydrogen fluoride. Fluorite is used on a large scale to separate slag in steel-making. Mined fluorite (CaF2) is a commodity chemical used in steel-making.

Hydrofluoric acid and its anhydrous form, hydrogen fluoride, is also used in the production of fluorocarbons Hydrofluoric acid has a variety of specialized applications, including its ability to dissolve glass.


So as to the fluoride in water, definitely not the gas as that seems to be rare unto itself. So is it classified as a salt or metal flourides? But at this point, I don't care and will not bother to take time to find out. As such, I will stand corrected and concede the point.

All I care about is what is in the water, and on this I will stand on my point of the effects...


Are you aware of the health dangers of fluoride? Did you know that fluoride can damage fertility, destroy bones and cause early puberty in children?

Water fluoridation has been banned in many countries including: China, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Hungary, and Japan. Nearly all of Europe’s water supply is fluoride-free.

And yet, fluoride is omnipresent in the American food supply. It’s in our water, in juice, soda, wine and coffee, in soups and processed food, and in baby formula. The majority of American cities have fluoridated water.


This is from: Top 10 Dangers of Fluoride

And the one I find most appauling:


4. Fluoride and Brain Damage

"It is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain." — the National Research Council (2006)

The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) lists fluoride among about 100 chemicals for which there is "substantial evidence of developmental neurotoxicity." Experiments on animals reveal that fluoride accumulates in the brain and alters mental behavior (Mullenix 1995). There have been over 100 animal experiments showing that fluoride damages the brain and impacts learning and behavior.

Advocates of fluoridation counter that these animal studies are invalid because high doses of fluoride were used. However, it takes 5-20 times more fluoride to reach the same plasma levels in rats as in humans (Sawan 2010). One animal experiment found effects at very low doses of fluoride (Varner 1998). In this study, rats were fed for one year with 1 ppm fluoride in their water (the same amount used in tap water fluoridation), using either sodium fluoride or aluminum fluoride. These rats had changes to their kidneys and brains, an increased uptake of aluminum in the brain, and the formation of beta-amyloid deposits which are associated with Alzheimer's disease.


Wow, an uptake of metal, aluminum in the brain.

more obfuscation?

Dodo_David's photo
Thu 04/17/14 11:51 AM



Fluoride is fluoride, a heavy metal, period.


That will come as a surprise to chemists, because fluoride is an anion of fluorine, and fluorine is a diatomic nonmetal gas.

Fluorine comes after oxygen on the periodic table of the elements.



Sure doesn't come as a surprise to most chemist.


Counter-intuitively, unlike the lower halides, the variety of possible salts containing true fluoride ions is rather restricted. Most metal fluorides are highly polar, covalently bonded molecular networks instead of ionic lattices. All of the alkali metal fluorides, and most of the alkali earth metal fluorides are true salts. In such true salts, fluoride typically assumes the primitive or face-centred cubic motifs. Fluoride is also found with weakly coordinating counter cations, such as in ammonium fluoride, in which it assumes the close-packed hexagonal motif. Under aqueous conditions, fluoride exists as a trigonal pyramidal-shaped hydrated complex, namely [F(H2O)3]-. Fluoride has the smallest monatomic, crystal and effective, ionic radii: 199 and 133 pm, respectively.



Concentrated fluoride solutions are toxic through dermal contact and must, therefore, be handled with appropriate care, since it causes skin irritation, eye damage, and irritation to mucous membranes. Latex gloves offer no protection, so specially resistant gloves, such as those made of nitrile rubber, are worn when handling fluoride compounds. The hazards of solutions of fluoride salts depend on the concentration, and counterion.

Concentrated fluoride solutions are handled in a fume hood because of the toxic vapours. Very dilute fluoride solutions are harmless. However, ingestion of stronger solutions are more dangerous to human and animal life.

Due to incompatibilities, it is recommended to keep fluoride salts away from acids.


But the part I really found interesting is:


Fluoride salts and hydrofluoric acid are the main fluorides of industrial value. Compounds with C-F bonds fall into the realm of organofluorine chemistry. The main uses of fluoride, in terms of volume, are in the production of cryolite, Na3AlF6. It is used in aluminium smelting. Formerly, it was mined, but now it is derived from hydrogen fluoride. Fluorite is used on a large scale to separate slag in steel-making. Mined fluorite (CaF2) is a commodity chemical used in steel-making.

Hydrofluoric acid and its anhydrous form, hydrogen fluoride, is also used in the production of fluorocarbons Hydrofluoric acid has a variety of specialized applications, including its ability to dissolve glass.


So as to the fluoride in water, definitely not the gas as that seems to be rare unto itself. So is it classified as a salt or metal flourides? But at this point, I don't care and will not bother to take time to find out. As such, I will stand corrected and concede the point.

All I care about is what is in the water, and on this I will stand on my point of the effects...


Are you aware of the health dangers of fluoride? Did you know that fluoride can damage fertility, destroy bones and cause early puberty in children?

Water fluoridation has been banned in many countries including: China, Austria, Belgium, Finland, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, the Netherlands, Hungary, and Japan. Nearly all of Europe’s water supply is fluoride-free.

And yet, fluoride is omnipresent in the American food supply. It’s in our water, in juice, soda, wine and coffee, in soups and processed food, and in baby formula. The majority of American cities have fluoridated water.


This is from: Top 10 Dangers of Fluoride

And the one I find most appauling:


4. Fluoride and Brain Damage

"It is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain." — the National Research Council (2006)

The US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) lists fluoride among about 100 chemicals for which there is "substantial evidence of developmental neurotoxicity." Experiments on animals reveal that fluoride accumulates in the brain and alters mental behavior (Mullenix 1995). There have been over 100 animal experiments showing that fluoride damages the brain and impacts learning and behavior.

Advocates of fluoridation counter that these animal studies are invalid because high doses of fluoride were used. However, it takes 5-20 times more fluoride to reach the same plasma levels in rats as in humans (Sawan 2010). One animal experiment found effects at very low doses of fluoride (Varner 1998). In this study, rats were fed for one year with 1 ppm fluoride in their water (the same amount used in tap water fluoridation), using either sodium fluoride or aluminum fluoride. These rats had changes to their kidneys and brains, an increased uptake of aluminum in the brain, and the formation of beta-amyloid deposits which are associated with Alzheimer's disease.


Wow, an uptake of metal, aluminum in the brain.

more obfuscation?


Of course. It would have been too simple to say, "I was wrong about fluoride being a metal." :tongue:

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