Topic: Are Chistians the Biggest Hypocrites?
mightymoe's photo
Thu 02/05/15 04:54 PM

Writing out of respect, I had the same question in my mind "Why not just die and be with my God earlier?" However, life given is life to be appreciated. Therefore, dying for the sake of desiring to be with God earlier is not something that God would want. Moreover, it is written that, to live wholistically, I need to take care of my body as it is the temple of my spirit. Killing myself is not taking care of myself.

Another thing is that there is a purpose why I'm still alive. One reason for that would most probably be to be His instrument in showing the light to other people. I don't need to be priest or pastor to share His light, because everyone has a different calling.

I'm sorry if my reply is quite complicated. I can't give a simple answer to your question.


probably, because no matter how much "faith" you have, there is always the question "is there really a god?"... billions of years of evolution has gave us all a will to live, otherwise there would be no life without that will...

Granfir's photo
Fri 02/06/15 05:53 AM
It's not a mystery that most Christians, and non Christians being human by human nature only see and understand Spiritual knowledge in human terms. God being Spirit, Has a different origin than that of mankind his origin being of Adam's nature which is human by nature and not Spiritual... That's why there is a carnal mind set verses a Spiritual mind set. There's a clear separation between the two... God's word repeatedly over numerous times in every book in the new and old testament this is seen. Seeing the separation of the two natures allows us the opportunity to grasp God's concept which is unattached to the human aspect. It isn't about making a better human! It's all about separation of what's human like being joined to Christ death.. human aspect died with Christ, so to produce a new creation in Christ resurrection. A clear separation through death . This to the human nature mind set is a impossibility and the human nature mind rationalizes it will happen when their human body dies. Where as the Spirit of God isn't limited at all with it being a done deal while the human nature lives on in the human body. It's not a human experience it's a Spiritual event! Separation from what is human by nature to see and understand what's Spiritual by nature... That's why there's a two edge sword being ," Word"s of a Spiritual origin ". Human word's to the human understanding is human by origin. Even if God is mentioned. So we have Human understanding of the word of God and we have the Spiritual understanding of God from the same word seen. The separation is missed most of the time due to the human mind set . I'd love to share more..

murildennis's photo
Fri 02/06/15 06:12 PM
You have to understand the makeup of a real Christian in order to answer your question. Sin is in the flesh and the spirit that is saved is from God and now sin free. Both live together until death at which time the sin dies in the flesh and the Christian is freed. Until that time they will have an internal war and are directed to ( fight the good fight of faith) basically sometimes you are in the faith and winning and sometimes you are in the flesh and losing so the answer to your question is YES and they will be. They know they are no good (real ones do) they are just forgiven because of faith.

No one should shove the bible on anyone, God gave each person the right to believe or not. Christians are supposed to live in a way as to show you the love of Christ in their actions, sometimes they will and other times they will lose their personal fight. Many claim it but only God can judge who has faith and who does not. He said you will know them by their fruit.....not daily actions but the product they produce in the long term.

murildennis's photo
Fri 02/06/15 06:20 PM

probably, because no matter how much "faith" you have, there is always the question "is there really a god?"... billions of years of evolution has gave us all a will to live, otherwise there would be no life without that will.

this is really off of the mark ( with all due respect) the truth is when you become a Christian your life no longer belongs to you. ( he who lays down his life for me............) you dont have the right to choose to die, you have to be content with what God chooses for your life. You live for him and you die for him not yourself. This goes back to fighting your own flesh, even in death you cant place your desires before Gods

no photo
Tue 02/24/15 05:33 AM

yes, true...but some religions don't believe in a "heaven" just an extension of life in another form...so they may not want to become a bird or goat yet LOL :)


Even religions (the people who follow them) who believe in an extension of life after death rather than heaven have killed. Look at Buddhist monk warriors.

1j9b6c5's photo
Tue 02/24/15 06:26 AM
Not sure but I think catholics ARE christians. Fortunately I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket and I'm ugly as sin.

no photo
Wed 02/25/15 07:08 AM

a thought provoking discussion on the difference between religion and faith.

However there is ONE thing we all have in common, that is we all want to be right. It's human nature, no one likes or wants to be wrong. The Christians think they have it right, the Jews, Muslims, Hindus etc., everyone thinks they got it right.
But suppose everyone has it wrong, or on the other hand, suppose everyone is right? Your first instinct is to say, "everyone can't be right", but I think it could also be the case.

The Christian RELIGION may or not be the one true way, I speak only about the hypocrisy in their practice or supposed faith in that religion.
To make my point let's look at extreme Islamic fundamentalists.

they believe Jesus Christ is the son of God and If you follow His teaching and/or accept Him as your personal savior you will live in heaven for eternity. but an indescribably beautiful place filled with pure love, peace and happiness. I hope I got this right in general terms at least.

If you truly believe in Jesus, and love Him with your whole being and you truly believe in this place called heaven, then why will you do everything and anything to prolong your meeting with Him and a life of love, peace and happiness?

If you really have FAITH and BELIEVE in what you say, then why not pray that your children die in a bus accident or that your father dies in heart surgery so they can be in this wonderful place called heaven? Instead it seems the opposite is true.




religion is an organized belief system, whereas faith is a personal journey

of course everyone would want to believe in being right... not just in religion but even in just about everything, we would want to have conviction in something...right?
but i don't think religion/faith is merely a matter of being right or wrong... we all fight for what we believe in, regardless of how right or wrong it may be to others... the difference is in the manner of how we fight and assert our beliefs...

hypocrisy exists not only in religion... it's part of human nature... a double-standard... to judge religion (or any other organization) based on it's followers is a natural phenomena... but that should not mislead one to judge God in the same standard...

maybe heaven isn't necessarily a garden of Eden or any other describable place...being with the one you love and who loves you can already be classified as heaven on earth, what more after...

regarding death, this happened because of sin, if i am not mistaken... and faith without works is dead anyways.. so how else will you be able to prove your faith if you're dead already?


no photo
Wed 02/25/15 03:25 PM
Hello.

Jesus here. I would like to say that I am utterly sick of seeing my image nailed to a cross.It was not fun and I would rather not be reminded of it constantly. Most of the stuff they say I did is utterly inaccurate. I did not cure the blind,I simply directed them to spec savers. It all gets blown out of proportion. As for the money lenders. I purchased some weed.It was not dry,underweight and inferior. I simply got tired of the travesty and threw my toys. Again that got blown out of proportion. Also,and this really hits home the inaccuracies of my so called christian followers,I was not blonde with straight shiny hair.Neither was I fair of skin.My hair was dark,curly. Didn't any of you think it strange that I hung around with loads of geezers mostly? Why would I of all people be anti gay. We were the original village people. It was in fact me that wrote YMCA. Bet you didn't know that.

Please stop arguing over me. I only wanted to sing,dance and buy some weed that was dry,of good quality and on weight.It all went Pete Tong and I ended up getting nailed to a poxy cross. I didn't die for your sins.I died because some fu..ers nailed me to a cross.If anything I died for being a little different.It was that simple.Sorry to disappoint but as my Father used to say.**** appens mon.

Conrad_73's photo
Wed 02/25/15 03:27 PM
Edited by Conrad_73 on Wed 02/25/15 03:31 PM

You have to understand the makeup of a real Christian in order to answer your question. Sin is in the flesh and the spirit that is saved is from God and now sin free. Both live together until death at which time the sin dies in the flesh and the Christian is freed. Until that time they will have an internal war and are directed to ( fight the good fight of faith) basically sometimes you are in the faith and winning and sometimes you are in the flesh and losing so the answer to your question is YES and they will be. They know they are no good (real ones do) they are just forgiven because of faith.

No one should shove the bible on anyone, God gave each person the right to believe or not. Christians are supposed to live in a way as to show you the love of Christ in their actions, sometimes they will and other times they will lose their personal fight. Many claim it but only God can judge who has faith and who does not. He said you will know them by their fruit.....not daily actions but the product they produce in the long term.

so,you tell me Man is a Corpse with it's own Volition to Sin?noway

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/original_sin.html

and then you get upset when People like OP calls you Guys hypocritical,dualistic etc?

no photo
Thu 02/26/15 08:45 AM
Christians are not the biggest hypocrites...

Thoughthe biggest hypocrites that I know, in this christian-dominated culture, are christians.


If I lived in saudi arabia, probably the biggest hypocrites I knew would be muslim.

If I lived in Israel I'd be the biggest hypocrites I knew would be jewish.

It's human nature, no one likes...



There is very little in human psychological tendencies which is not massively influenced by culture, so I reject most notions of 'human nature', which seems to me a lazy person's way of explaining human qualities that may be common in a time period or place.

When the vikings were raping and pillaging and burning whole villages, I'm sure some people said that was 'human nature'.

no one likes or wants to be wrong.


I often like or want to be wrong. Many of the scientists that I've known previously in my life enjoyed finding out that they were wrong.

no photo
Fri 03/13/15 12:16 AM
Op must be a religious Atheist.

CowboyGH's photo
Fri 03/13/15 05:47 AM
I do truly believe for the general part on a whole, most to all people that follow a belief/religion is a hypocrite. Including me. For example, it's hard to claim to be a child of God and or a follower of Christ or even just in broad terms a "Christian" if one doesn't follow the teachings there of. Just take a second to think about this, if everyone truly followed the teachings/instructions/laws of our Lord Jesus Christ, could you imagine how beautiful and loving this world truly would be? By no means am I meaning to make this a debate on which one is right, real, true, best, ect. But just for a second, imagine everyone following Jesus' commandment, including but not limited to loving others as oneself, turning the other cheek, and not judging one another.

BallyVegas's photo
Mon 03/16/15 02:20 PM
I think Christians are Perfectly fine. And I love them and proud of them for being with God and being so kind to this world as well. I have to hand it to them. I am not Christian but I understand what they are saying and its all perfectly fine. Well done Christians! I really am proud of you guys.

no photo
Mon 03/16/15 03:26 PM

Not sure but I think catholics ARE christians. Fortunately I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket and I'm ugly as sin.


Many self-described christians disagree.

Nevertell1985's photo
Mon 03/16/15 06:41 PM
I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll take a couple shots at the original question :)

- Integrity is in a sense, being whole, complete...it isn't necessarily doing what you say you will do, but that is part of it. Follow this definition through to the end and you will recognize the most intregrity-filled thing you can say is "I don't have integrity!"
- I use this as an illustration simply to point out, the higher the ideal held, the more you may seem a hypocrite, and the closer you come to that ideal in admitting your failure to live it out!

- The Judeo-Christian tradition holds that Heaven and Earth were created to be one. This whole disembodied ascent or descent into heaven or hell is at best a misunderstanding of 1st century Judaism...at its worst a bastardized hybrid of Platonism and pagan Judaism. Christians SHOULD understand and believe that Jesus' resurrection is the first act of New Creation, where heaven and earth become one, the dead are resurrected (ie. Are very truly physical, transformed, fully clothed in the Holy Spirit, and will never die), and God dwells among a newly redeemed, newly created Creation. So in many ways Christianity holds the highest of ideals in that the Earth is not abandoned, we were created to be embodied, and God brings a justice that is overtly merciful (there probably is a hell, but leading scholars are seeing that hell is a place people choose, not a place people are sent). This is all a pretty complex paradigm shift from where the Conservative Evangelicals are today, so I'm sure I'm doing a poor job of communicating this clearly.
- If we could agree, for argument's sake, that Christianity holds out an ideal too high for anyone to achieve, let alone completely grasp, since it involves the cosmic redemptive movement of God, it would not be hard to come to the conclusion that Christians, who are supposed to be living out the New Creation in this broken world, are closer to living that New Creation out when they embrace the fact that they are indeed extremely hypocritical. This isn't to say they have a pass; however, it is to say, there is specifically a call in Christianity that makes little of no sense according to how our world works, yet this way of living is one which will be vindicated in God's New Creation.

I'm not necessarily interested in defending Christian hypocrisy, especially since much of it is power-driven and actually anti-New Creation. That being said, the more I come to understand the true message Jesus proclaimed, the more I realize my first task is simply to admit where I fall completely and utterly short...not even in sin, just in my own ability.

CowboyGH's photo
Tue 03/17/15 07:42 AM
Edited by CowboyGH on Tue 03/17/15 08:20 AM

Christians SHOULD understand and believe that Jesus' resurrection is the first act of New Creation, where heaven and earth become one,


Just out of curiosity. If you believe that is when Heaven and Earth became one, then why does revelations prophecy claim that is it yet to happen? Where there is no more pain, no more sorrow, no more separation from God.



I haven't read the entire thread, but I'll take a couple shots at the original question :)

- Integrity is in a sense, being whole, complete...it isn't necessarily doing what you say you will do, but that is part of it. Follow this definition through to the end and you will recognize the most intregrity-filled thing you can say is "I don't have integrity!"
- I use this as an illustration simply to point out, the higher the ideal held, the more you may seem a hypocrite, and the closer you come to that ideal in admitting your failure to live it out!

- The Judeo-Christian tradition holds that Heaven and Earth were created to be one. This whole disembodied ascent or descent into heaven or hell is at best a misunderstanding of 1st century Judaism...at its worst a bastardized hybrid of Platonism and pagan Judaism. Christians SHOULD understand and believe that Jesus' resurrection is the first act of New Creation, where heaven and earth become one, the dead are resurrected (ie. Are very truly physical, transformed, fully clothed in the Holy Spirit, and will never die), and God dwells among a newly redeemed, newly created Creation. So in many ways Christianity holds the highest of ideals in that the Earth is not abandoned, we were created to be embodied, and God brings a justice that is overtly merciful (there probably is a hell, but leading scholars are seeing that hell is a place people choose, not a place people are sent). This is all a pretty complex paradigm shift from where the Conservative Evangelicals are today, so I'm sure I'm doing a poor job of communicating this clearly.
- If we could agree, for argument's sake, that Christianity holds out an ideal too high for anyone to achieve, let alone completely grasp, since it involves the cosmic redemptive movement of God, it would not be hard to come to the conclusion that Christians, who are supposed to be living out the New Creation in this broken world, are closer to living that New Creation out when they embrace the fact that they are indeed extremely hypocritical. This isn't to say they have a pass; however, it is to say, there is specifically a call in Christianity that makes little of no sense according to how our world works, yet this way of living is one which will be vindicated in God's New Creation.

I'm not necessarily interested in defending Christian hypocrisy, especially since much of it is power-driven and actually anti-New Creation. That being said, the more I come to understand the true message Jesus proclaimed, the more I realize my first task is simply to admit where I fall completely and utterly short...not even in sin, just in my own ability.

Nevertell1985's photo
Tue 03/17/15 09:11 PM
I meant to be describing the New Creation, not meaning to imply it had already happened or been fulfilled.

- an act of New Creation is an act of the Holy Spirit. Looking back on his ministry, Paul does not differentiate between his own efforts and those of the Holy Spirit...though his ministry was filled with acts of New Creation.

- this would probably be more clearly understood if we taught the early Christian presumption that the Holy Spirit's action is intrinsically eschatological. In essence, the Spirit-filled Church is pulling the New Creation into the present broken world...but that doesn't mean the New Creation has come to fruition or that the faithful Church has yet been vindicated.

For all, I hope it remains apparent that I am describing what I understand to be the Christian perspective/belief and nothing more.

CowboyGH's photo
Wed 03/18/15 04:59 AM

I meant to be describing the New Creation, not meaning to imply it had already happened or been fulfilled.

- an act of New Creation is an act of the Holy Spirit. Looking back on his ministry, Paul does not differentiate between his own efforts and those of the Holy Spirit...though his ministry was filled with acts of New Creation.

- this would probably be more clearly understood if we taught the early Christian presumption that the Holy Spirit's action is intrinsically eschatological. In essence, the Spirit-filled Church is pulling the New Creation into the present broken world...but that doesn't mean the New Creation has come to fruition or that the faithful Church has yet been vindicated.

For all, I hope it remains apparent that I am describing what I understand to be the Christian perspective/belief and nothing more.


Didn't quite happen just at the "resurrection". That's not when anyone became a new creation. It is when we allow ourselves to let this old creation die and pass away only to pick up a life in being a new creation through Jesus Christ.


2 Corinthians 5:17

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Nevertell1985's photo
Wed 03/18/15 08:29 AM
Jesus of Nazareth was made a New Creation. The transformation that is part and parcel of what resurrection means was Jesus becoming the firstborn of the New Creation...Paul also calls him the "firstfruits." This is why Paul can claim that we are a new creation "in Christ." He is speaking of something anticipatory and yet so sure to happen that he uses language of it already happening. We do the same when we refer to ourselves as "saved." We must still go through death, carry out cross, etc., so obviously we have not been fully saved from that...but salvation is assured and the faithful count that guarantee so sure as to speak of it as if it has already happened.

CowboyGH's photo
Wed 03/18/15 11:24 AM

Jesus of Nazareth was made a New Creation. The transformation that is part and parcel of what resurrection means was Jesus becoming the firstborn of the New Creation...Paul also calls him the "firstfruits." This is why Paul can claim that we are a new creation "in Christ." He is speaking of something anticipatory and yet so sure to happen that he uses language of it already happening. We do the same when we refer to ourselves as "saved." We must still go through death, carry out cross, etc., so obviously we have not been fully saved from that...but salvation is assured and the faithful count that guarantee so sure as to speak of it as if it has already happened.


He was made a new creation was he? Please do enlighten with the verses that state as such. Jesus didn't "become" the first born, he was born from a virgin, that and he's the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. But in more specifics to "first born" he was as Marry was a virgin.