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| Topic: We are in a police state right now | |
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Excerpt from IgorFrankensteen: In the case of Watergate, actual direct connections were found again and again, between the burglars and the President. In the case of the Kennedy assassination, no mechanical connections were ever found between all the creepy coincidental details, and Oswald. So having satisfactorily resolved the Kennedy and Watergate issues and consigned them to the annals of history can you please provide the less informed amongst the group where we can find the information which will enable us to continue the present day battle for freedom and liberty and avoid the lies,fantasies, myths, and other false or misleading things about the problems.We don't all have the skills resources and time to do this research.But before you spend too much time on your mission,how do we know that you are not a perpetrator of said lies,myths and fantasies.Perhaps you too are from the "Department of Truth" Conrad is referring too. The fact that you DON'T know whether I am a disinformant or not, is a good first step lesson for you to teach yourself. I would suggest that you start by assuming as little as possible. However, that includes most specifically, that you should not assume NEFARIOUSNESS any more than you should assume honesty. It is the LACK of supporting factual and structural information that you should always look for, whenever someone comes to you and wants you to react to what they tell you is a threat to your well being. In this case, the suggestion that we are "already living in a police state," you should begin by looking into and understanding for yourself, exactly what a Police State actually IS. Then, I would suggest as an exercise, that you try to play the part of each of the possible kinds of people who would be involved in such a threat. I have observed (and I would suggest you look for yourself) that people who want us to worry about things, aren't all alike. * Some are selling things. They want us to worry that if we fail to blindly buy their products, that our lives and loves will suffer. * Some are buying things. Votes, in particular. Many politicians want us to fear something enough to give them power or money. real Police States have been set up using this technique. To deal with these people, you must examine each power they call for you to award them, and decide whether or not it makes MECHANICAL sense to you, that giving them that power will indeed solve the problem. Or if the problem itself, actually is as they describe it. * Some are trying to get us to let our guard DOWN, and to make us fear police, so that we will voluntarily disassemble our own protections against their criminality. This happens on all levels. Thieves want us to do away with police monitoring, and tell us it's an invasion of our privacy, so that they can then steal from us with impunity. Some corporate greedos want us to do away with regulations that limit their ability to ignore our health and safety, so that they can make a lot more money, and avoid legal responsibility for their actions. You don't so much need to "find information," as you need to sit down and teach yourself to reason more directly. And then demand that those who want you to be afraid, prove to YOU that the threat they claim, actually exists. Have them be specific. Most people who want you to worry in order to promote their own selfish ends, want you to fear something that is relatively vague, as far as it relates directly to you. This "police state" fantasy is a perfect example of that. Calling it a "police state" because some police HAVE been found exceeding their authority, is actually a contradiction. If it were a "police state," then the fact that these incident happened would not be newsworthy. If you fear that accepting misbehavior by authorities can lead to a "police state," then follow the stories, and lobby for the authorities in question to be prosecuted. Read more history. Most "police states" that have come into being, were the direct result of the citizens being brought to FEAR the loss of their liberty, by those who offered to "free" them. i really don't think he was expecting a detailed, self righteous and arrogant answer... if you really think we are "free", then you're deluded by your self proclaimed brilliance... If you think that was, or was even remotely INTENDED to be arrogant, you have perception and reading comprehension problems. It was detailed, because he asked a question directly to me which required a detailed answer. Speaking of arrogant and deluded though... |
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Mightymoe, I dont think Igor is saying we/you are free, he is saying be suspicious of those that offer to 'free us/you.
I dont think Igor is being self righteous and arrogant either. My interpretation is that he is suggesting you question information, search for and research your own information, leave prejudice and preconceived ideas at the door. The essence of being open minded is being able to question your own beliefs (constantly). "You don't so much need to "find information," as you need to sit down and teach yourself to reason more directly" This^ might sound arrogant, but pretend its a loving motherly voice saying it. (ie; do not impose your own negativity on internet text) It seems like sound advice to me. |
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Excerpt from IgorFrankensteen: In the case of Watergate, actual direct connections were found again and again, between the burglars and the President. In the case of the Kennedy assassination, no mechanical connections were ever found between all the creepy coincidental details, and Oswald. So having satisfactorily resolved the Kennedy and Watergate issues and consigned them to the annals of history can you please provide the less informed amongst the group where we can find the information which will enable us to continue the present day battle for freedom and liberty and avoid the lies,fantasies, myths, and other false or misleading things about the problems.We don't all have the skills resources and time to do this research.But before you spend too much time on your mission,how do we know that you are not a perpetrator of said lies,myths and fantasies.Perhaps you too are from the "Department of Truth" Conrad is referring too. The fact that you DON'T know whether I am a disinformant or not, is a good first step lesson for you to teach yourself. I would suggest that you start by assuming as little as possible. However, that includes most specifically, that you should not assume NEFARIOUSNESS any more than you should assume honesty. It is the LACK of supporting factual and structural information that you should always look for, whenever someone comes to you and wants you to react to what they tell you is a threat to your well being. In this case, the suggestion that we are "already living in a police state," you should begin by looking into and understanding for yourself, exactly what a Police State actually IS. Then, I would suggest as an exercise, that you try to play the part of each of the possible kinds of people who would be involved in such a threat. I have observed (and I would suggest you look for yourself) that people who want us to worry about things, aren't all alike. * Some are selling things. They want us to worry that if we fail to blindly buy their products, that our lives and loves will suffer. * Some are buying things. Votes, in particular. Many politicians want us to fear something enough to give them power or money. real Police States have been set up using this technique. To deal with these people, you must examine each power they call for you to award them, and decide whether or not it makes MECHANICAL sense to you, that giving them that power will indeed solve the problem. Or if the problem itself, actually is as they describe it. * Some are trying to get us to let our guard DOWN, and to make us fear police, so that we will voluntarily disassemble our own protections against their criminality. This happens on all levels. Thieves want us to do away with police monitoring, and tell us it's an invasion of our privacy, so that they can then steal from us with impunity. Some corporate greedos want us to do away with regulations that limit their ability to ignore our health and safety, so that they can make a lot more money, and avoid legal responsibility for their actions. You don't so much need to "find information," as you need to sit down and teach yourself to reason more directly. And then demand that those who want you to be afraid, prove to YOU that the threat they claim, actually exists. Have them be specific. Most people who want you to worry in order to promote their own selfish ends, want you to fear something that is relatively vague, as far as it relates directly to you. This "police state" fantasy is a perfect example of that. Calling it a "police state" because some police HAVE been found exceeding their authority, is actually a contradiction. If it were a "police state," then the fact that these incident happened would not be newsworthy. If you fear that accepting misbehavior by authorities can lead to a "police state," then follow the stories, and lobby for the authorities in question to be prosecuted. Read more history. Most "police states" that have come into being, were the direct result of the citizens being brought to FEAR the loss of their liberty, by those who offered to "free" them. i really don't think he was expecting a detailed, self righteous and arrogant answer... if you really think we are "free", then you're deluded by your self proclaimed brilliance... If you think that was, or was even remotely INTENDED to be arrogant, you have perception and reading comprehension problems. It was detailed, because he asked a question directly to me which required a detailed answer. Speaking of arrogant and deluded though... lol, you don't even see that it's arrogant and delusional... thats the sad part... seems to me our country was doing fine 30 years ago, before all the "adjustments" being made to all of our freedoms, now that they are made, the country is just about in a free fall, ready to shut down, financial crisis, and nobody trusts anyone anymore... and you're seeing it all through rose colored glasses... |
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Edited by
smilesatyou
on
Sat 10/10/15 04:21 PM
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Your freedoms were taken away in about 1880. It happened about 2yrs after slavery was 'abolished'.
It is your civil liberties that are being eroded. You might be aware of people calling themselves freemen. I have a great link that explains what law is hidden from the general public. Our freedoms have been compromised too, but common law is on the side of the people. US and UK foundation of law is similar, if you want to regain your 'freedom' have a read: https://keystoliberty2.wordpress.com/tag/affidavit-of-truth/ I am not certain but it may help in defending your constitution. PS Sorry my link isnt underlined, im a noob. ;) |
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mightymoe
i really don't think he was expecting a detailed, self righteous and arrogant answer... if you really think we are "free", then you're deluded by your self proclaimed brilliance... You are correct Moe.However he has defended his position even if it is a little verbose and self righteous.We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect him for responding even if I find his response more confusing than informative. 
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Edited by
mightymoe
on
Sat 10/10/15 04:41 PM
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mightymoe i really don't think he was expecting a detailed, self righteous and arrogant answer... if you really think we are "free", then you're deluded by your self proclaimed brilliance... You are correct Moe.However he has defended his position even if it is a little verbose and self righteous.We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect him for responding even if I find his response more confusing than informative. i respect his opinion, just think it's arrogant bordering delusional... and wrong, but that's neither here nor there... |
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mightymoe i really don't think he was expecting a detailed, self righteous and arrogant answer... if you really think we are "free", then you're deluded by your self proclaimed brilliance... You are correct Moe.However he has defended his position even if it is a little verbose and self righteous.We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect him for responding even if I find his response more confusing than informative. i respect his opinion, just think it's arrogant bordering delusional... and wrong, but that's neither here nor there... I respect his right to hold and express his opinion.That doesn't mean I respect his opinion.There is a difference. 
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Name calling and insult labeling isn't advancing this debate/discussion. Nor does making incorrect assumptions about things that you did NOT read in anything I wrote.
How about talking about the actual subject matter instead? The claim has been made that we are ALREADY living in a "police state." How about defining exactly what that means, for starters. Describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history. When did the Police State come into existence? How do the Police State abuses of citizens differ from those that took place before the Police State came into being? |
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i'll have to re-read this tomorrow........when i'm sober...  
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Name calling and insult labeling isn't advancing this debate/discussion. Nor does making incorrect assumptions about things that you did NOT read in anything I wrote. How about talking about the actual subject matter instead? The claim has been made that we are ALREADY living in a "police state." How about defining exactly what that means, for starters. Describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history. When did the Police State come into existence? How do the Police State abuses of citizens differ from those that took place before the Police State came into being? How about you tell us smart azz. Go whine some where else. |
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Name calling and insult labeling isn't advancing this debate/discussion. Nor does making incorrect assumptions about things that you did NOT read in anything I wrote. How about talking about the actual subject matter instead? The claim has been made that we are ALREADY living in a "police state." How about defining exactly what that means, for starters. Describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history. When did the Police State come into existence? How do the Police State abuses of citizens differ from those that took place before the Police State came into being? I agree with your statement "describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history".However when those occurrences become a regular occurrence then we have a different situation.Little by little our freedom is eroded,what we see is the thin end of the wedge.Your country and mine is being destroyed by each little occurrence which is allowed to go unchallenged.I like RockGnomes quote "we don't need to stand tall,we just need to stand up" coupled with "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.You state,"those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history",they should not be allowed to happen over and over.The fact they they have been allowed has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. |
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Name calling and insult labeling isn't advancing this debate/discussion. Nor does making incorrect assumptions about things that you did NOT read in anything I wrote. How about talking about the actual subject matter instead? The claim has been made that we are ALREADY living in a "police state." How about defining exactly what that means, for starters. Describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history. When did the Police State come into existence? How do the Police State abuses of citizens differ from those that took place before the Police State came into being? I agree with your statement "describing a few outrageous occurrences isn't meaningful one way or the other, especially when those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history".However when those occurrences become a regular occurrence then we have a different situation.Little by little our freedom is eroded,what we see is the thin end of the wedge.Your country and mine is being destroyed by each little occurrence which is allowed to go unchallenged.I like RockGnomes quote "we don't need to stand tall,we just need to stand up" coupled with "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.You state,"those kinds of things have happened over and over throughout our nations entire history",they should not be allowed to happen over and over.The fact they they have been allowed has cost hundreds of thousands of lives. Okay, which occurrences have been allowed to go unchallenged? That's what I'm trying to find out. Despite what the name callers here claim, I haven't taken a side on this, I'm still in the "yeah, but how does that support your claims?" stage of things. So far, I've seen a lot of snide comments and rather paranoid sounding generalized rants, but nothing that I haven't heard since I was a kid, when the left-wingers were constantly claiming that democracy was about to end, as they spelled America with a K to emphasize it. They never proved anything either, just wailed about how much danger we were supposedly in. I've seen plenty of evidence of incompetence, and a ton of examples of people in power abusing that power to enrich themselves and their friends. That's a corrupt government, but it isn't remotely a "police state." |
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