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| Topic: Are you afraid of the "friend zone?" | |
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There are some men who think like OldKid. If there wasn't, then the move When Harry Met Sally would have been just like every other romantic comedy. But what OldKid is saying is also what sets the whole tone for Billy Crystal's approach to his friendship with Meg Ryan's character.
Personally, I'd take a bullet for any of my friends. They are like family for me. On the other hand, a woman could be a very close friend, but there's a very high chance that if she becomes my best friend, I'm going to start thinking about why she and I never got together. I think that's what OldKid is largely getting at, though he might not be explaining properly. |
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There seems to be the belief among many of you that a woman is special and should be treated differently simply because she is female. Sorry, but that is not equality. While I will open a car door for you and make sure your gown is tucked inside before closing the door, most of the time you are on your own. I expect you to pay your share of an outing. I expect you to hold the door for me part of the time. I expect you to express your opinion on any subject. Unless you are a romantic interest, you are NOT special!! Holy F@*K ALL MY FRIENDS ARE SPECIAL TO ME. Maybe you haven't quite grasped the concept of friendship? |
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Edited by
I_love_bluegrass
on
Thu 11/15/18 09:15 AM
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There may be a woman someplace in the world that would actually be a real and serious friend to me, I have never met one yet in my lifetime!! That's because you objectify women. Let me know when you meet a woman who is self-confident, independent, doesn't make decisions on emotion, and has mastered her life. This is a woman who needs no one else in her life for anything! 
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I don't know why so many of you have a hard time wrapping your mind around this concept. If it is a non-sexual social connection, then you should expect to be treated like any male social friend would. You are not considered or accommodated differently because you are female. If that works for you, then we can be social friends mostly as a group; if you want more, then the romantic/sexual interest must be there! That's crap. See my example above. Essentially for you, a woman is not a person. I wrap my brain around what you said, and your thoughts on women, pretty damn well. If there is no chance of you sticking your penis in her she cannot be a "true" friend. That is a classic example of objectifying women. |
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I still don't get, what the problem is,
with friendship. |
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There seems to be the belief among many of you that a woman is special and should be treated differently simply because she is female. Sorry, but that is not equality. While I will open a car door for you and make sure your gown is tucked inside before closing the door, most of the time you are on your own. I expect you to pay your share of an outing. I expect you to hold the door for me part of the time. I expect you to express your opinion on any subject. Unless you are a romantic interest, you are NOT special!! Holy F@*K ALL MY FRIENDS ARE SPECIAL TO ME. Maybe you haven't quite grasped the concept of friendship? |
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I don't know why so many of you have a hard time wrapping your mind around this concept. If it is a non-sexual social connection, then you should expect to be treated like any male social friend would. You are not considered or accommodated differently because you are female. If that works for you, then we can be social friends mostly as a group; if you want more, then the romantic/sexual interest must be there! That's crap. See my example above. Essentially for you, a woman is not a person. I wrap my brain around what you said, and your thoughts on women, pretty damn well. If there is no chance of you sticking your penis in her she cannot be a "true" friend. That is a classic example of objectifying women. Right... Because you've gotten to know "most women." Your assumptions and attitude are repulsive to me. Maybe it's just me. |
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Edited by
actionlynx
on
Thu 11/15/18 09:20 AM
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I really think OldKid isn't explaining it properly.
He's saying that friends are friends regardless of gender. But being a heterosexual man means that women have one notch higher on the friendship dial than a man does. That extra notch is what deems a woman more special than anyone else in the man's life. It's something that another man can never achieve. Only a woman can. So unlike with male friends, when it comes to women, there are two distinct levels of friendship -- regular friendship and special friendship. Special friendship has all the laws of attraction in play. Hence there is some sexual tension, along with other greater emotional bonds -- like paying her overdue mortgage so she doesn't lose her house, getting hit by a car to prevent her from being hit instead, etc. etc. |
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There may be a woman someplace in the world that would actually be a real and serious friend to me, I have never met one yet in my lifetime!! That's because you objectify women. Let me know when you meet a woman who is self-confident, independent, doesn't make decisions on emotion, and has mastered her life. This is a woman who needs no one else in her life for anything! |
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I really think OldKid isn't explaining it properly. He's saying that friends are friends regardless of gender. But being a heterosexual man means that women have one notch higher on the friendship dial than a man does. That extra notch is what deems a woman more special than anyone else in the man's life. It's something that another man can never achieve. Only a woman can. So unlike with male friends, when it comes to women, there are two distinct levels of friendship -- regular friendship and special friendship. Special friendship has all the laws in play. Hence there is some sexual tension, along with other greater emotional bonds -- like paying her overdue mortgage so she doesn't lose her house, getting hit by a car to prevent her from being hit instead, etc. etc. Action, do not give him an excuse. it is beyond the capability of most women. I think the boldface is a fair indicator of his feelings towards women. Can you justify that statement? |
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Crank, it may be judgmental, but it may be derived from the type of women he's typically met in his life.
How many of us are guilty of making wrongful assumptions based on our own personal experiences? Answer: All of us. Therefore, this may just be his own personal experience, as wrong as it may be as a generalization. That doesn't mean he's just an a--hole. It means he may just need to meet a greater diversity of women. Now....if he wants to deny what I just said, then I really can't help him, can I? |
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Crank, it may be judgmental, but it may be derived from the type of women he's typically met in his life. How many of us are guilty of making wrongful assumptions based on our own personal experiences? Answer: All of us. Therefore, this may just be his own personal experience, as wrong as it may be as a generalization. That doesn't mean he's just an a--hole. It means he may just need to meet a greater diversity of women. Now....if he wants to deny what I just said, then I really can't help him, can I? I'm going to make an assumption that might also be wrongful. Perhaps if his attitude were a bit more enlightened then he would get the chance to meet a greater diversity of women. |
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I'm glad someone can understand!! A few male friends can be at an upper level and there is the possibility that a woman could be one above that yet. I've had a couple people tell me that if you have 2 or 3 friends at that upper plateau, you are very fortunate. I am fortunate in that I have 2 at that level! They will do whatever they are capable of for me and I for them.
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Edited by
actionlynx
on
Thu 11/15/18 09:37 AM
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@Cranky:
And that contingency is included in my last sentence. He may just have the view of Billy Crystal's Harry in When Harry Met Sally: "Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her." |
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Action, do not give him an excuse. it is beyond the capability of most women. I think the boldface is a fair indicator of his feelings towards women. Can you justify that statement? Like someone else said...I don't know what type of women he has been running across/ circles he's been hanging out in...but... It's like all those guys on these dating sites who complain *all* women they meet have a drug/ alcohol dependancy issue..or their grown kids live with them, or they've been in and out of jail.. In my circle...I know no one, female *or* male like that...I don't know what circles those guys are hanging out in...  You also said: "Let me know when you meet a woman who is self-confident, independent, doesn't make decisions on emotion, and has mastered her life. This is a woman who needs no one else in her life for anything" That seems to be saying if you met such a woman...you've already discounted her because she "needs no one else in her life for anything"...therefore...why would you want to 'waste" your time with her.. I could be wrong..but...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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I'm glad someone can understand!! A few male friends can be at an upper level and there is the possibility that a woman could be one above that yet. I've had a couple people tell me that if you have 2 or 3 friends at that upper plateau, you are very fortunate. I am fortunate in that I have 2 at that level! They will do whatever they are capable of for me and I for them. What we have here is someone altering their stance so they can win a debate. You went from this: While the friendship part of a relationship is essential, why would anyone consider a serious friendship with someone of the opposite gender that they didn't find sexually attractive? to what you posted above. Frankly, I do not give a $h!t about winning a debate in a forum. I thought this would be an interesting topic and clearly people like you have "livened" the debate and made it interesting. Thanks. 
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Crank, it may be judgmental, but it may be derived from the type of women he's typically met in his life. How many of us are guilty of making wrongful assumptions based on our own personal experiences? Answer: All of us. Therefore, this may just be his own personal experience, as wrong as it may be as a generalization. That doesn't mean he's just an a--hole. It means he may just need to meet a greater diversity of women. Now....if he wants to deny what I just said, then I really can't help him, can I? I'm going to make an assumption that might also be wrongful. Perhaps if his attitude were a bit more enlightened then he would get the chance to meet a greater diversity of women. |
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Sometimes we should afraid of it for the betterment of us as well as for them.
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Action, do not give him an excuse. it is beyond the capability of most women. I think the boldface is a fair indicator of his feelings towards women. Can you justify that statement? Like someone else said...I don't know what type of women he has been running across/ circles he's been hanging out in...but... It's like all those guys on these dating sites who complain *all* women they meet have a drug/ alcohol dependancy issue..or their grown kids live with them, or they've been in and out of jail.. In my circle...I know no one, female *or* male like that...I don't know what circles those guys are hanging out in... You also said: "Let me know when you meet a woman who is self-confident, independent, doesn't make decisions on emotion, and has mastered her life. This is a woman who needs no one else in her life for anything" That seems to be saying if you met such a woman...you've already discounted her because she "needs no one else in her life for anything"...therefore...why would you want to 'waste" your time with her.. I could be wrong..but...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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I don't need a man in my life. But it sure would be nice.
My mother always told me I need a good man to take care of me. What I discovered was that I am very capable of taking care of myself. I don't need a man for that. So yup mom was wrong. |
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