Topic: Church and State
madisonman's photo
Tue 02/05/08 06:29 PM
http://www.ericblumrich.com/faith.html

willy_cents's photo
Tue 02/05/08 06:39 PM
please quote to me the section/article and precise wording from the constitution the requires separation of church and state. I am not familiar with that article. thank youflowerforyou

madisonman's photo
Tue 02/05/08 06:41 PM
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

madisonman's photo
Tue 02/05/08 06:45 PM
In 1802, President Jefferson wrote a letter to a group of Baptists in Danbury, Connecticut, in which he declared that it was the purpose of the First Amendment to build ''a wall of separation between Church and State.'' 15 In Reynolds v. United States, 16 Chief Justice Waite for the Court characterized the phrase as ''almost an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the amendment.'' In its first encounters with religion-based challenges to state programs, the Court looked to Jefferson's metaphor for substantial guidance. 17 But a metaphor may obscure as well as illuminate, and the Court soon began to emphasize neutrality and voluntarism as the standard of restraint on governmental action. 18 The concept of neutrality itself is ''a coat of many colors,'' 19 and three standards that could be stated in objective fashion emerged as tests of Establishment Clause validity. The first two standards were part of the same formulation. ''The test may be stated as follows: what are the purpose and the primary effect of the enactment? If either is the advancement or inhibition of religion then the enactment exceeds the scope of legislative power as circumscribed by the Constitution. That is to say that to withstand the strictures of the Establishment Clause there must be a secular legislative purpose and a primary effect that neither advances nor inhibits religion.'' 20 The third test is whether the governmental program results in ''an excessive government entanglement with religion. The test is inescapably one of degree . . . [T]he questions are whether the involvement is excessive, and whether it is a continuing one calling for official and continuing surveillance leading to an impermissible degree of entanglement.'' 21 In 1971 these three tests were combined and restated in Chief Justice Burger's opinion for the Court in Lemon v. Kurtzman, 22 and are frequently referred to by reference to that case name.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/01.html#4

Dragoness's photo
Tue 02/05/08 06:54 PM
Madisonflowerforyou I am a firm believer in keeping religion out of our government. Far too much has been allowed power in the political process. We need to keep religion at home where it belongs, not in our government. Religion is harmful if allowed too much power. The constructors knew this because of the persecution of heratics in Europe before they came to the new country. Religion is fine and I believe all should be able to practice whatever religion they wish but not as part of our government.

willy_cents's photo
Tue 02/05/08 07:00 PM
hmmmm....I am quite familiar with an extermination order issued by the government against a particular religon, which was in effect up until it was retracted just a couple years ago...a period of over 150 years. and you are concerned about the separation of church and state?????? What would be your reaction if the extermination order was re-worded to cover anyone not a christian, or a jew, or a bhuddist, or even an agnostic/atheist? Yes, I believe that the writers of the constitution meant to prohibit the state favoring any one religon over another, but, they did not mean to marginalize any group either.

madisonman's photo
Tue 02/05/08 07:07 PM

Madisonflowerforyou I am a firm believer in keeping religion out of our government. Far too much has been allowed power in the political process. We need to keep religion at home where it belongs, not in our government. Religion is harmful if allowed too much power. The constructors knew this because of the persecution of heratics in Europe before they came to the new country. Religion is fine and I believe all should be able to practice whatever religion they wish but not as part of our government.

I feel as you do on this flowerforyou

madisonman's photo
Tue 02/05/08 07:12 PM
This also shows that the religious right, for all their phony claims of patriotism, does not like or admire America at all. The only thing they desire is an America obedient to their beliefs and ideals, a country that has become a right-wing Christian theocracy with themselves as the rulers - one where women's bodies are the property of the state, where gays and nonbelievers are second-class citizens by law, and where the government draws up mandatory religious exercises for schoolchildren and other captive audiences. If they cannot have this, they angrily reject and attack the nation as a whole; their affection for America is solely a function of whether it bows to their demands. If it will not, the religious right in all its arrogance has no hesitation in threatening all the rest of us with divine retribution from their angry, mythical god.

http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/09/the-religious-right-hates-america.html