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| Topic: Wisdom of the caterpillar ... | |
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Edited by
Maikuru
on
Fri 12/05/08 01:45 PM
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hey they make balls for moths I had to earn my own...  Which would you rather be: the moth or the moth ball? the fly or the fly swatter? either way its a pretty raw deal when you get the two of them together...  Both and either the moth ball and the swatter are only deterrants... I like moths, they have an unacknowledged grace and beauty, that is more subtle, than their elegant showmen cousins,... furry little faces like teddy bears... an unobtrusive quiet way of going about things... and often blend right into their habitat. Dressed in Vegas showgirl finery, (as a butterfly) is a bit hard to fly under the radar...  And here i just thought bright colors were nature's warning lights, kinda counter productive to have something that most species in nature who have it says watch out im poisonous if you eat me! Butterflies must of been drama queens in a past life or something. " Look at me! I make that ant hill look like a soup kitchen don't I!" lol 
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And here i just thought bright colors were nature's warning lights, kinda counter productive to have something that most species in nature who have it says watch out im poisonous if you eat me! Butterflies must of been drama queens in a past life or something. " Look at me! I make that ant hill look like a soup kitchen don't I!" lol If the analogy fits................ Nice to see the caterpillar has a barb... 
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You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty.
Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley. |
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You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty. Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley.  what does this have to do with the op? ...and I am not a daoist ... |
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Chair for a mushroom and three inches high- hookah huffer.
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When I transform into the next cycle of being, I wish to become a terminator of deceit!
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Edited by
Maikuru
on
Tue 12/09/08 05:42 PM
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You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty. Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley. what does this have to do with the op? ...and I am not a daoist ... Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. |
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You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty. Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley. what does this have to do with the op? ...and I am not a daoist ... Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. There is much wisdom in it  ... I just don't hang my hat on any label of philosophy ... One's words and actions speak for themselves ... Thank you!  |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 12/09/08 08:01 PM
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I love toast! oh wait . . . he said taoist.
Well I never met one I didn't like! Cant say that about . . . . well almost any other belief system. Great thread guys, If anything I am the chameleon in appearance I change color, but only to blend in not to be noticed. But in personality I am the lion: lazy, but watch the f out, I may just find a reason to get off my arse lol. You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty. Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley. what does this have to do with the op? ...and I am not a daoist ... Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. There is much wisdom in it ... I just don't hang my hat on any label of philosophy ... One's words and actions speak for themselves ... Thank you! I couldn't agree more, I find wisdom in so many things . . it would be sad for me to not look, to not listen. Labels are unfortunately necessary. Labels are over relied on by the apathetic masses. Words of my mother ring in my head as I type this . . . . we are all more then what we say, or do from minute to minute, we are most certainly more then any label. |
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I love toast! oh wait . . . he said taoist. Well I never met one I didn't like! Cant say that about . . . . well almost any other belief system. Great thread guys, If anything I am the chameleon in appearance I change color, but only to blend in not to be noticed. But in personality I am the lion: lazy, but watch the f out, I may just find a reason to get off my arse lol. You silly daoists and your no-thingness. Though the cup is only useful because it is empty. Nothing personal, but fecal matter goes downhill. And I don't feel like being everyone's valley. what does this have to do with the op? ...and I am not a daoist ... Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. There is much wisdom in it ... I just don't hang my hat on any label of philosophy ... One's words and actions speak for themselves ... Thank you! I couldn't agree more, I find wisdom in so many things . . it would be sad for me to not look, to not listen. Labels are unfortunately necessary. Labels are over relied on by the apathetic masses. Words of my mother ring in my head as I type this . . . . we are all more then what we say, or do from minute to minute, we are most certainly more then any label. Thank you Billy I too look in many places ... I find it curious sometimes though that I often don't care if I find the answers because the contemplation of the questions so darned interesting ...
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To return to the op for a moment ...to paraphrase and condense ...
during the transition of the caterpillar to the butterfly it is the wasting carcass of the caterpillar that nourishes the growth of the new creature ... One has to die so that the other can live... Is that a reasonable analogy of human development ... abstract as it is? To let go of that which we have created ... that ego thingy ... does it, or at least pieces of it, have to die so that the new you can emerge ... freer ... wings optional ... ? What do you think? |
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To return to the op for a moment ...to paraphrase and condense ... during the transition of the caterpillar to the butterfly it is the wasting carcass of the caterpillar that nourishes the growth of the new creature ... One has to die so that the other can live... Is that a reasonable analogy of human development ... abstract as it is? To let go of that which we have created ... that ego thingy ... does it, or at least pieces of it, have to die so that the new you can emerge ... freer ... wings optional ... ? What do you think? I think that is a very good metaphor for at least part of what might be called “enlightenment”. We have a certain understanding about “truth”. As we grow and experience new things those old understandings “die” and are replaced with new understandings of “greater truth”. The birth of the new understanding marks the death of the old understanding. Without the death of the old understanding, the new understanding could not live. And it sometimes seems as if we could not have attained the new understanding if it were not for the fact that we had the old understanding, “false” as it was. Like the old understanding was a bridge, without which we could not have reached the new understanding. A very poetic metaphor.  |
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Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. Oh, it wasn't meant as an insult, just as an observation. I actually love the Tao Te Ching. I suppose you could say it was also the beginning of my cocoon. It was the first philosophy book that I ever bought, and I've read it quite a few times. I even happen to agree with most of it's basic principles. Water overcoming rock and the emptiness being what makes certain things useful. It's just that point of being the valley for everyone means that you have to be looked down upon. I think that you should lead by example, so that people have someone to look up to, not down towards. Instead of rebuking my standpoint, he just chose to dismiss me as an ignorant buffoon. Or at least unaccepting of others' beliefs. What I was hoping for was a rebuttal as to how that's not really what Lao Tzu meant. Because I can most definitely see where he was coming from, but that doesn't make my statement any less pertinent. And I do like the fact and the metaphors that have come up. Though I happen to be a moth fan. I like to think of them as butterflies of the night. |
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 "Do, or Do Not. There is no try." - Jedi Master Yoda |
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To return to the op for a moment ...to paraphrase and condense ... during the transition of the caterpillar to the butterfly it is the wasting carcass of the caterpillar that nourishes the growth of the new creature ... One has to die so that the other can live... Is that a reasonable analogy of human development ... abstract as it is? To let go of that which we have created ... that ego thingy ... does it, or at least pieces of it, have to die so that the new you can emerge ... freer ... wings optional ... ? What do you think? It is perfect, for the knowing part of me.... to shed all that is no longer appropriate to growth... the expansion of remembered knowing....the death of the little 'me'... to make way for the emerging 'me'. It is a perfect sense of what happens... a shedding... as such. 
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Don't worry about it art, he was only trying to insult me. He just doesn't seem to like Taoism or Taoist, hopefully he meant nothing against you or the thread. Oh, it wasn't meant as an insult, just as an observation. I actually love the Tao Te Ching. I suppose you could say it was also the beginning of my cocoon. It was the first philosophy book that I ever bought, and I've read it quite a few times. I even happen to agree with most of it's basic principles. Water overcoming rock and the emptiness being what makes certain things useful. It's just that point of being the valley for everyone means that you have to be looked down upon. I think that you should lead by example, so that people have someone to look up to, not down towards. Instead of rebuking my standpoint, he just chose to dismiss me as an ignorant buffoon. Or at least unaccepting of others' beliefs. What I was hoping for was a rebuttal as to how that's not really what Lao Tzu meant. Because I can most definitely see where he was coming from, but that doesn't make my statement any less pertinent. And I do like the fact and the metaphors that have come up. Though I happen to be a moth fan. I like to think of them as butterflies of the night. I see where your coming from in your arguement. I choose to believe however that Lao-tzu meant that we could accomplish more by being humble and not placing ourselves above others or thinking that we are somehow better or more enlightened then someone else. In Aikido we teach that a weakness can actually be a source of strength in certain situtaions. Water may reside at the lowest places on earth but never underestimate its hidden strength. Another good Taoist i would recommend you read up on is Lieh-tzu. You might find his passive methods to leadership quite interesting. I would never dismiss someone as ignorant but i choose not to get rapped in silly arguements that have nothing to do with the OP. |
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To return to the op for a moment ...to paraphrase and condense ... during the transition of the caterpillar to the butterfly it is the wasting carcass of the caterpillar that nourishes the growth of the new creature ... One has to die so that the other can live... Is that a reasonable analogy of human development ... abstract as it is? To let go of that which we have created ... that ego thingy ... does it, or at least pieces of it, have to die so that the new you can emerge ... freer ... wings optional ... ? What do you think? Death is another association for change. Essentially all things go through cycles of change and development. In fact the 13th card in the Tarot deck is Death, which most people mistake to actually mean death when really all it means is a dramtic change, needed change or sudden change is about to take place. I like referencing the I Ching when it comes to change and needed wisdom as well. These changes also involve choice. In some instances in order for us to trully change we must first choose to let go of something we once did, believed or thought. I agree with art that it is a reasonable analogy for human development in as far as the natural changes we go through and the cycles of life we all go through. There is another stage to human development which i think she was trying to touch on with the caterpillar analogy. It is the concious development in us to let go of things in order to progress foward.
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Edited by
ganonzyther
on
Fri 12/12/08 09:21 PM
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I see where your coming from in your arguement. I choose to believe however that Lao-tzu meant that we could accomplish more by being humble and not placing ourselves above others or thinking that we are somehow better or more enlightened then someone else. In Aikido we teach that a weakness can actually be a source of strength in certain situtaions. Water may reside at the lowest places on earth but never underestimate its hidden strength. Another good Taoist i would recommend you read up on is Lieh-tzu. You might find his passive methods to leadership quite interesting. I would never dismiss someone as ignorant but i choose not to get rapped in silly arguements that have nothing to do with the OP.  Well said. It kind of reminds me of (was it) Confucious who gave the example of walking down the road with two men. And what fun is it if you can't pick up a partial and run with it?
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