These pilots were war vets....please

__________________________________


General Wesley Clark, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding General of
U.S. European Command, which included all American military activities
in the 89 countries and territories of Europe, Africa, and the Middle
East. Additionally, Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR), which
granted him overall command of NATO military forces in Europe 1997 -
2001. Awarded Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart for his
service in Viet Nam and numerous subsequent medals and citations.
Graduated valedictorian of his class at West Point.

Video interview ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos 3/5/06: "I
think when you look at this country, right now, we need a 2-party system
that works. We need Congress to do its job. We need real investigation
of some of the abuses of authority that are apparently going on at the
Executive branch. ... We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and
whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information
it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a
long time." http://securingamerica.com/node/692


Bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

Ok, so one or two people who managed to have some knowlege of clearance
functions thinks this isn't quite right. And *YET* they're it. Hundreds
(well, thousands, really) of people who've had similar positions don't
think there's anything wrong.


There's a HUUUGE difference between "willful harm" and "caught with our
pants down". We treated the 9/11 flights like we'd treated all
hijackings in the last half century. Be nice to the hijackers- find out
what they want- and keep talking until they run low on fuel and/or
demands are reasonable.

For all we know, they WERE talking to the hijackers. Unsuccessfully,
it's obvious. Which I'd have wanted to classify out of respect for the
negotiator.


As for "losing" the planes. Are you off your nut? It's NEW YORK
FREAKIN' CITY- the thing's a nightmare for air control. What with all
the buildings and radio communications disrupting things. It's a miracle
they don't lose EVERY plane that flies through. And besides- they didn't
hijack the planes for very long- they were going through New York
anyways.


The two planes that were "lost" for more than 30 seconds were the
pentagon plane (aka- the suspicious one) and the one over Pennsylvania
(which vanished and then was later found crashed).


Besides, anyone who knows plane engineering can shut off the tansponder
with the use of a pair of wire cutters.

I did not comment on the 911scholars link for one very simple reason.

It is a document of words alone. To get the data referenced by the
articles you have to pay.

One price listed was 125.oo USD.

Money rears its ugly head yet again.

The non money videos are clips from the news services. The same clips
we saw on that day with a diferent narrator spouting the same theories
but no actuall data. Simply conjecture and misdirection using basic
math.

I used to make money at bars by waiting till the people were drunk then
'proving' that 1 = 2 using the math they learned in school.

You can't fool me I to stupid.

In the entire history of american aeronautics- there has never been a
case of a military vessel firing upon a hijacked plane. And up until
9/11- there was never a case of terrorists using a plane in a suicide
attack. To be fair, in retrospect- it was one of those "why didn't I
think of that" things. But so was velcro, once it was made. Until it
happened, obviously, no one'd tried it before- so it wasn't as obvious
as everyone might think.

Like I said you can be the next millionaire, but I want a finders fee.

______________________________________________

Major General Albert Stubblebine, U.S. Army (ret) – Former Commanding
General of U.S. Army Intelligence and Security Command, 1981 - 1984.
Also commanded the U.S. Army’s Electronic Research and Development
Command and the U.S. Army’s Intelligence School and Center. Former head
of Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical Intelligence.
32-year Army career.

Video 7/11/06: "One of my experiences in the Army was being in charge of
the Army’s Imagery Interpretation for Scientific and Technical
Intelligence during the Cold War. I measured pieces of Soviet equipment
from photographs. It was my job. I look at the hole in the Pentagon and
I look at the size of an airplane that was supposed to have hit the
Pentagon. And I said, ‘The plane does not fit in that hole’. So what did
hit the Pentagon? What hit it? Where is it? What's going on?"
http://www.und


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
Colonel Nelson, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, and
Steve DeChiaro.


Bio: http://www.canadiansub.com/Board

Well, for one thing- that's not possible. There was smoke pouring out
of those holes from collision to collapse. No one could, even with the
best computer models, get more than a fair approximation. And don't
forget, planes are hollow- you can fit a beer can through a hole
considerably smaller than it is- if it crumples in the process.

So, even if what he says is true- it proves nothing. And since what he
says cannot be proven in any sence of the word- it's moot. Killed in two
distinct ways.

but the engines and landing gear are not hollow, where are they????

the government said that the plane incenerated but they also said they
got DNA from the passengers.

Where are the pictures of the engines?

show me the picture of the 757s engine and ill stop this.

______________________________________

Col. Ronald D. Ray, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Deputy Assistant Secretary
of Defense during the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated
Vietnam veteran (two Silver Stars, a Bronze Star and a Purple Heart).
Appointed by President George H.W. Bush to serve on the American Battle
Monuments Commission (1990 - 1994), and on the 1992 Presidential
Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces. Military
Historian and Deputy Director of Field Operations for the U.S. Marine
Corps Historical Center, Washington, D.C. 1990 - 1994.

Article 7/10/06: "The former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under
the Reagan Administration and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran and
Colonel has gone on the record to voice his doubts about the official
story of 9/11 - calling it ‘the dog that doesn't hunt.’ ‘I'm astounded
that the conspiracy theory advanced by the administration could in fact
be true and the evidence does not seem to suggest that's accurate,’ he
said." http://www.knowledgedriven


Bio: http://www.firstprinciplespress.org


__________________________________________

Truth be told- even circumstantial evidence would be damning in large
enough quantities. But most of the stuff you presented isn't
"suspicious"- it's in fact "what would happen anyways, whether or not it
was a government conspiracy". Give us evidence that is actually worth
being suspicious over. Please.

I already have with this link.

http://911scholars.org/

_____________________________________

Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced
Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. U.S. Air
Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics
and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of
Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force
Institute of Technology. Also taught Mathematics and English at the
University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and
Phillips University.
Video 9/11/04: "A lot of these pieces of information, taken together,
prove that the official story, the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is
a bunch of hogwash. It’s impossible. … There’s a second group of facts
having to do with the cover up. … Taken together these things prove that
high levels of our government don’t want us to know what happened and
who’s responsible.…

Who gained from 9/11? Who covered up crucial information about 9/11?
And who put out the patently false stories about 9/11 in the first
place? When you take those three things together, I think the case is
pretty clear that it’s highly placed individuals in the administration
with all roads passing through **** Cheney.

I think the very kindest thing that we can say about George W. Bush and
all the people in the U.S. Government that have been involved in this
massive cover-up, the very kindest thing we can say is that they were
aware of impending attacks and let them happen. Now some people will
say that’s much too kind, however even that is high treason and
conspiracy to commit murder." http://video.go


Signatory: Petition requesting a reinvestigation of 9/11:
"We want truthful answers to question. … As Americans of conscience, we
ask for four things:
An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry."
http://www.911truth.org/article



Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout
the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed
to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September
2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers
performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point
blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful
day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very
forthcoming with answers."


Website: http://www.thepatriots.us

AB, I know what propaganda is. I also know that I'm not so gullible as
to believe an "official explanation" that is so full of holes that even
a preschooler would have sense enough to question it.

Uh. Dude. There was never a "757" in any of the 9/11 attacks. And don't
claim it was merely a typo- all you've said is "757".


As to the missing plane bits. Destroyed in the collapse. The DNA
evidence- I'd love to see confirmable proof that ANYONE claimed they got
DNA from the wreckage in 9/11 plane itself. Now, other victims in the
collapse, sure. But not those caught in the blaze.

They did (and this isn't suspicious at all) get DNA from the other two
crashes. But no one I ever heard claim DNA from the planes which hit the
towers.

This government said that there were 4 boeing 757s that did 911, all
flown by kids with boxcutters.

_____________________________________________

Col. George Nelson, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former U.S. Air Force
aircraft accident investigator and airplane parts authority. 34-year Air
Force career.

Essay: "In all my years of direct and indirect participation, I never
witnessed nor even heard of an aircraft loss, where the wreckage was
accessible, that prevented investigators from finding enough hard
evidence to positively identify the make, model, and specific
registration number of the aircraft -- and in most cases the precise
cause of the accident. ...

The government alleges that four wide-body airliners crashed on the
morning of September 11 2001, resulting in the deaths of more than 3,000
human beings, yet not one piece of hard aircraft evidence has been
produced in an attempt to positively identify any of the four aircraft.
On the contrary, it seems only that all potential evidence was
deliberately kept hidden from public view. …

With all the evidence readily available at the Pentagon crash site, any
unbiased rational investigator could only conclude that a Boeing 757 did
not fly into the Pentagon as alleged. Similarly, with all the evidence
available at the Pennsylvania crash site, it was most doubtful that a
passenger airliner caused the obvious hole in the ground and certainly
not the Boeing 757 as alleged. …

As painful and heartbreaking as was the loss of innocent lives and the
lingering health problems of thousands more, a most troublesome and
nightmarish probability remains that so many Americans appear to be
involved in the most heinous conspiracy in our country's history."
http://www.physics911.net


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Lt. Col. Kwiatkowski, Major Rokke, Capt.
Wittenberg, and Steve DeChiaro.


Member: Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice Association Statement:
"Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice is a non-partisan organization
consisting of independent researchers and activists engaged in
uncovering the true nature of the September 11, 2001 attacks."


Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout
the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed
to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September
2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers
performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point
blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful
day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very
forthcoming with answers."

You've shown all kinds of claims. None of the "good" ones can be
verified in any sence. And most of them weren't good at all. Either
obvious fallacies or ones that fall apart once you know what you're
talking about.


Don't forget, not only is it possible the plane crumpled- it is also
IMPOSSIBLE to determine the size of the holes given all available video
evidence.

B&W you keep saying 400+ people. (out of how many that don't beleive
this stuff?).

You also keep saying 600 unanswered questions. OK 600. Yet you
continually harp on the same 4 or 5 to which some of us have presented
enough reasonable doubt that even a jury would have to throw those 4 or
5 aside.

Bring up the next of your '600 unanswered questions' the ones you have
been posting over and over ad infintium ad nausem have been addressed.
Bring on the rest of em.

well, I cant really spoon feed you guys, you kind of have to do your own
research, but Ive given you a start.

and hey....dont you want a million dollars???

_________________________________________

Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Former
Political-Military Affairs Officer in the Office of the Secretary of
Defense. Also served on the staff of the Director of the National
Security Agency. 20-year Air Force veteran.

Contributor to 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out
8/23/06: Account of Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski, Pentagon employee and
eyewitness to the events at the Pentagon on 9/11. "I believe the
Commission failed to deeply examine the topic at hand, failed to apply
scientific rigor to its assessment of events leading up to and including
9/11, failed to produce a believable and unbiased summary of what
happened, failed to fully examine why it happened, and even failed to
include a set of unanswered questions for future research. ...

It is as a scientist that I have the most trouble with the official
government conspiracy theory, mainly because it does not satisfy the
rules of probability or physics. The collapses of the World Trade
Center buildings clearly violate the laws of probability and physics.
...

There was a dearth of visible debris on the relatively unmarked
[Pentagon] lawn, where I stood only minutes after the impact. Beyond
this strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind
of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of
a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have
been apparent to the secretary of defense [Donald Rumsfeld], who in an
unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed
into the Pentagon as a "missile".

... I saw nothing of significance at the point of impact - no airplane
metal or cargo debris was blowing on the lawn in front of the damaged
building as smoke billowed from within the Pentagon. ... all of us
staring at the Pentagon that morning were indeed looking for such
debris, but what we expected to see was not evident.

The same is true with regard to the kind of damage we expected. ... But
I did not see this kind of damage. Rather, the facade had a rather small
hole, no larger than 20 feet in diameter. Although this facade later
collapsed, it remained standing for 30 or 40 minutes, with the roof line
remaining relatively straight.

The scene, in short, was not what I would have expected from a strike by
a large jetliner. It was, however, exactly what one would expect if a
missile had struck the Pentagon.

... More information is certainly needed regarding the events of 9/11
and the events leading up to that terrible day."


Editor's note: For more information on the impact at the Pentagon, see
General Stubblebine, Colonel Nelson, Major Rokke, Capt. Wittenberg, and
Steve DeChiaro.


Bio: http://militaryweek.com/

Here's a laugh. A 9/11 conspiracy site that does the work of proving
the "no plane" claims are complete lies for me. Enjoy.

http://www.oilempire.us/bogus.html#history


I love it when nutjobs turn on other nutjobs.

JeanC.

I have no doubt the government is covering up. They were incompetent
throughout the whole time leading up to and after the attacks. That
does not mean they were responsible for he attacks.

Perhaps they are trying to cover the fact that part of the us gold
reserve was supposed to be in that area and was never recovered. (We do
have theives in our government).

There are many possiblities of what they could be covering. That is the
nature of politics. Cover up any thing that could embarrass you or your
party. It still does not mean they performed the attack.

The other irony- this site doesn't charge you to view their
information.

Although I do have to admit- the best way to break the conspiracy
theorists' backs would be to pose as theorists, then spread easily
defeatable information that appears to be true for about 30 seconds. And
then, of course, gets shredded by intelligent people who might have
listened. I'll have to remember this tactic for future reference.

however you get off...

but dont you want the million dollars???


___________________________________________

Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Retired U.S.
Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 21-year
Marine Corps career.

Letter to the Editor 2/5/07: Regarding 9/11 "Our government has been
hijacked by means of a "new Pearl Harbor" and a lot of otherwise good
and decent people who are gullible enough to think that the first three
steel-framed buildings in history fall down because they have some fires
that the fire fighter on the scene said could be knocked down with a
couple of hoses and through which people walked before they were
photographed looking out the holes where the plane hit . One of these -
bldg 7, [610 feet tall, 47 stories] was never hit by a plane and even
NIST is ashamed to advance a reason for its collapse. And, miracle of
miracles, these three buildings just happened to be leased and insured
by the same guy who is on tape saying they decided to "PULL" the last
one to fall." http://www.michigandaily.com


Statement to this website 2/20/07: "This isn't about party, it isn't
about Bush Bashing. It's about our country, our constitution, and our
future. ...

Your countrymen have been murdered and the more you delve into it the
more it looks as though they were murdered by our government, who used
it as an excuse to murder other people thousands of miles away.

If you ridicule others who have sincere doubts and who know factual
information that directly contradicts the official report and who want
explanations from those who hold the keys to our government, and have
motive, means, and opportunity to pull off a 9/11, but you are too lazy
or fearful, or ... to check into the facts yourself, what does that make
you? Scholars for 9/11 truth have developed reams of scientific data.
Michael Ruppert published an exhaustive account of the case from the
viewpoint of a trained investigator. David Ray Griffin provides a
context for the unanswered or badly answered questions that should nag
at anyone who pretends to love this country.

Are you afraid that you will learn the truth and you can't handle it?
...

Do a little research. Google is a wonderful tool.

What does it all add up to? The Commission was, as was the Warren
Commission before it, a dog and pony show ... " Link to full statement


Member: Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association Statement: "Pilots for 9/11
Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout
the globe that have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed
to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September
2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers
performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point
blame. However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful
day since the United States Government doesn't seem to be very
forthcoming with answers."