Topic: Übermensch
RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 01:52 PM
One of the most fascinating things I have read lately is this Übermensch
by Friedrich Nietzsche. The concept of the Übermensch (help·info)—(homo
superior; equivalent English: "Superman", "superior man", "overman",
"super-human" or "trans-human"; )—was expounded by Friedrich Nietzsche
in the 1883 book Thus Spoke Zarathustra, whose eponymous protagonist
contends that "man is something which ought to be overcome". Zarathustra
thus announces the coming of the Übermensch, which must succumb to
nihilism in order to overcome it.

I have always been a big fan of Superman; Superwoman and all the other
action heroes. Nihilism to me is deeply disturbing.

On January 3, 1889, Nietzsche exhibited signs of a serious mental
illness. Two policemen approached him after he caused a public
disturbance in the streets of Turin. What actually happened remains
unknown. The often-repeated tale states that Nietzsche witnessed the
whipping of a horse at the other end of the Piazza Carlo Alberto, ran to
the horse, threw his arms up around the horse’s neck to protect it, and
collapsed to the ground.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:03 PM
Land Of Confusion




I must have dreamed a thousand dreams
Been haunted by a million screams
But I can hear the marching feet
They're moving into the street

Now, did you read the news today?
They say the danger has gone away
But I can see the fire's still alight
They're burning into the night

There's too many men, too many people
Making too many problems
And there's not much love to go around
Can't you see this is the land of confusion?

This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given
Use them and let's start trying
To make it a place worth living in

Oh, superman, where are you now?
When everything's gone wrong somehow?
The men of steel, the men of power
Are losing control by the hour

This is the time, this is the place
So we look for the future
But there's not much love to go around
Tell me why this is the land of confusion

This is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given
Use them and let's start trying
To make it a place worth living in

I remember long ago
When the sun was shining
And all the stars were bright all through the night
In the wake of this madness, as I held you tight
So long ago

I won't be coming home tonight
My generation will put it right
We're not just making promises
That we know we'll never keep

There's too many men, too many people
Making too many problems
And there's not much love to go round
Can't you see this is the land of confusion?

Now, this is the world we live in
And these are the hands we're given
Use them and let's start trying
To make it a place worth fighting for

This is the world we live in
And these are the names we're given
Stand up and let's start showing
Just where our lives are going to

no photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:05 PM
Most experts believe that Nietzsche's illness was the result of a
syphilitic infection picked up many years earlier, though this has never
been proven.

Re: "ubermensch" --two of Nietzsche's more popular translators have
created a sort of split in the way the word is translated. R.J
Hollingdale always used "Superman," whereas Walter Kauffmann preferred
"Overman."

"The Portable Nietzsche" contains some bits and pieces he wrote after
the breakdown. They are very interesting, if not particularly
intelligible. He signs himself "Dionysius" in one, and in another,
claims "I am just now having all anti-Semites shot."

In my opinion, much of his best work stems from 1888, the year before
the breakdown.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:16 PM
I would love to read some of his poetry. I didn't even know he wrote
poetry.

no photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:23 PM
He did write some and -- well, it isn't all that great -- Kauffmann
claims it reads better in the German, and I'll have to take his word for
it.

But, as someone who has attempted both, I can say from experience that
writing poetry is a completely different thing from writing prose!

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:23 PM
Both Kierkegaard and Nietzsche, considered precursors to existentialism
(or as existentialists themselves), criticized the rational, idealistic,
and systematic structures of philosophy and wrote instead on the
importance of the individual and the self-affirmation of the
individual’s own values and beliefs. Both philosophers wrote in a fairly
unsystematic way and with similar literary style. They attacked what
they saw as the detrimental effect of Christendom on the population.
Both Kierkegaard and Nietzsche condemned Christian churches for
perverting Christianity and straying from the values of Jesus. However,
they differ in their view of whether religion can continue to play an
important part in an individual's life. Kierkegaard believed that
Christian belief and faith is a much more individualistic and personal
experience, filled with dread and joy, than is afforded by the
comfortable social gathering of Christendom, while Nietzsche believed
Christians are slaves to religion and must be freed from its baneful
influence.

Oh, this is precious.:smile:

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:27 PM
I used to get these two mixed up; KierkegaarKierkegaard's fiancée Regine
Olsen and Nietzsche's companion Lou Andreas-Salomé
Intense writing periods where both authors turned out a book a year:
(Kierkegaard: 1843-1850; Nietzsche 1878-1888)
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche's passion for life and philosophy
Kierkegaard's knight of faith and Nietzsche's Übermensch
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche's common focus on psychology (Kierkegaard's
faith-based psychology - Nietzsche's power-based psychology)
Kierkegaard and Nietzsche's common focus on religion (Kierkegaard's
embrace of religion - Nietzsche's rejection of religion)
Kierkegaard's writings on Abraham in Fear and Trembling and Nietzsche's
character of Zarathustra in Thus Spoke Zarathustra
Kierkegaard's joyfulness of faith and Nietzsche's joyful acceptance of
life
Kierkegaard's "crowd" and Nietzsche's "herd"
d and Nietzsche.

no photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:29 PM
I have attempted to read Nietzsche, but even in my native German
I found it a very hard task. Maybe I was too young then, but I think I
would still have difficulties.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:33 PM
I wonder if the same problem has came about in the translation of other
works of literature from the initial language into a foreign language.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:38 PM
Born on October 15, 1844, Nietzsche lived in the small town of Röcken,
near Leipzig, in the Prussian province of Saxony. His name comes from
King Frederick William IV of Prussia, who turned 49 on the day of
Nietzsche's birth. (Nietzsche later dropped his given middle name,
"Wilhelm".[1]) Nietzsche's parents, Carl Ludwig (1813–1849), a Lutheran
pastor and former teacher, and Franziska Oehler (1826–1897), married in
1843. His sister, Elisabeth, was born in 1846, followed by a brother,
Ludwig Joseph, in 1848. Nietzsche's father died from a brain ailment in
1849; his younger brother died in 1850.

I wonder if because of his father being a Lutheran pastor had anything
to do with his writings and how did he get the name Nietzche.

no photo
Thu 05/10/07 02:43 PM
There are many variations of that name, it's a quite common one in
Germany and Austria

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 04:39 PM
On August 25, 1900, Nietzsche died after contracting pneumonia.
Elisabeth had him buried beside his father at the church in Röcken. His
friend, Gast, gave his funeral oration, proclaiming: "Holy be your name
to all future generations!" (Note that Nietzsche had pointed out in his
book Ecce Homo, not yet published at the time, how he did not wish
people to call him "holy".)

I can't but help but think that Nietzche had a sarcastic wit. laugh
From reading some his work so far especially on Paul I can't help but
laugh.

The first Christian. All the world still believes in the authorship of
the "Holy Spirit" or is at least still affected by this belief: when one
opens the Bible one does so for "edification."... That it also tells the
story of one of the most ambitious and obtrusive of souls, of a head as
superstitious as it was crafty, the story of the apostle Paul--who knows
this , except a few scholars? Without this strange story, however,
without the confusions and storms of such a head, such a soul, there
would be no Christianity...
That the ship of Christianity threw overboard a good deal of its Jewish
ballast, that it went, and was able to go, among the pagans--that was
due to this one man, a very tortured, very pitiful, very unpleasant man,
unpleasant even to himself. He suffered from a fixed idea--or more
precisely, from a fixed, ever-present, never-resting question: what
about the Jewish law? and particularly the fulfillment of this law? In
his youth he had himself wanted to satisfy it, with a ravenous hunger
for this highest distinction which the Jews could conceive - this people
who were propelled higher than any other people by the imagination of
the ethically sublime, and who alone succeeded in creating a holy god
together with the idea of sin as a transgression against this holiness.
Paul became the fanatical defender of this god and his law and guardian
of his honor; at the same time, in the struggle against the
transgressors and doubters, lying in wait for them, he became
increasingly harsh and evilly disposed towards them, and inclined
towards the most extreme punishments. And now he found that--hot-headed,
sensual, melancholy, malignant in his hatred as he was-- he was himself
unable to fulfill the law; indeed, and this seemed strangest to him, his
extravagant lust to domineer provoked him continually to transgress the
law, and he had to yield to this thorn.

I bet Nietzche's reading of the Bible caused some of the
insanity.laugh Trying to make sense of the contradictions must have
thrown him into turmoil. Especially when Paul says in the New Testament,
"It is better to marry than to burn." laugh

no photo
Thu 05/10/07 04:46 PM
Nietzsche. That guy makes a lot of strong statements. Many of the things
he said in his Zarathustra book were logical and even insightful. I
would say however that in spite of being correct and having some
interesting ideas, he did a fine job of maintaining a particularly
repulsive nature. So personally I thought his book an interesting read,
but his attitude was unpleasant.

As for the coming of the Overman, whatever, I'm sure we are fine with
him living a quiet live of desperation like the rest of us.

The idea of casting out unimportant people for the sake of some giant
among people, not too great in my book. Let the Great man work his way
to the top by doing something for society. Otherwise he can take his
Great and store it in the dark somewhere as far as I am concerned.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 04:53 PM
I want to get his book, "Human, All Too Human".

The everyday Christian. -- If the Christian dogmas of a revengeful God,
universal sinfulness, election by divine grace and the danger of eternal
damnation were true, it would be a sign of weak-mindedness and lack of
character not to become a priest, apostle or hermit and, in fear and
trembling, to work solely on one's own salvation; it would be senseless
to lose sight of ones eternal advantage for the sake of temporal
comfort. If we may assume that these things are at any rate believed
true, then the everyday Christian cuts a miserable figure; he is a man
who really cannot count to three, and who precisely on account of his
spiritual imbecility does not deserve to be punished so harshly as
Christianity promises to punish him.

from Nietzsche's Human, all too Human, s.116, R.J. Hollingdale transl.

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 04:55 PM
I can remember wanting to be a hermit when I was a small child. The
other kids said they wanted to be doctors, lawyers and firemen. The
teacher asked me what did I want to be and I said a hermit.laugh

RainbowTrout's photo
Thu 05/10/07 05:04 PM
I think Nietzche would be an interesting guest on the Dr. Phil Show. I
can just imagine Dr. Phil asking Nietzche, "Well, how is that working
for ya?"laugh