Topic: Scientific case for life after death
davinci1952's photo
Wed 05/23/07 05:26 AM
Short video's with Micheal Roll that everyone may enjoy...
http://www.cfpf.org.uk/

My knowledge of bible text
is limited but I recall reading somewhere that Jesus spoke of
reincarnation but his talks
of this subject were removed by the council editing..in
canstantinople....also that his
teachings of such still exist in old gnostic writings not recognized by
the church...again ..
I am not an expert on the bible...no need to attack me on this...I'm
only seeking discussion...

Spunky1's photo
Wed 05/23/07 07:16 AM
Though I wasn't raised in the belief of reincarnation I find it hard to
believe sometimes that this life is the only chance we get to do it
right. Isn't the first time out practice?

RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 05/23/07 07:27 AM
I enjoyed watching it. I thought the challenge to Albert Einstein's
theory of relativity was interesting as well as the challenge to the
theory of the world being flat.

RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 05/23/07 07:42 AM
There are several verses that some claim support reincarnation:

Jeremiah 1:4–5
John, 1:21
Matthew 11:14
Matthew 17:12,13
II Kings second chapter
Matthew 5:25–26
Matthew 26:52
Mark 9:11–13
Luke 1:17
John 3:1–10
John 9:1–3
Galatians 6:7

Origen, an early Christian theologian who lived during the third
century, wrote that "The soul has neither beginning nor end. [They] come
into this world strengthened by the victories or weakened by the defeats
of their previous existence" (De Principiis). This belief was not unique
to Origen; early Christians believed that the soul exists prior to the
conception and birth of a person, a belief that many then-popular
variants of Greek philosophy accepted. However, this does not in and of
itself imply reincarnation, cf. the Mormon view of the "beforelife" of
the soul. In AD 553, more than three hundred years after Origen's death,
the Emperor Justinian issued an edict against Origen, whose writings had
by then become very divisive, and convened the Second Council of
Constantinople. This Council issued "The Anathemas Against Origen". The
first sentence reads, "If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of
souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it:
let him be anathema."

Some see the Anathemas Against Origen not only suppressing the early
Christian teachings within the Church, but also any teaching supportive
of views on the pre-existence of the soul. Anyone publicly espousing
such beliefs could be reprimanded, and, if he persisted, excommunicated
from the Church.

The decision of the Second Council of Constantinople regarding the
pre-existence of souls has never been disputed since by traditional
Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant theologians and mainstream
denominations.

Quote from Origen:

"It can be shown that an incorporeal and reasonable being has life in
itself independently of the body... then it is beyond a doubt bodies are
only of secondary importance and arise from time to time to meet the
varying conditions of reasonable creatures. Those who require bodies are
clothed with them, and contrariwise, when fallen souls have lifted
themselves up to better things their bodies are once more annihilated.
They are ever vanishing and ever reappearing."

RainbowTrout's photo
Wed 05/23/07 07:51 AM
Origen was educated by his father, Leonides, on scriptural texts that
would later become the Bible and in elementary studies. However, in 202,
Origen's father was killed in the outbreak of the persecution during the
reign of Septimius Severus. Origen wished to follow in martyrdom, but
was prevented only by his mother hiding his clothes. The death of
Leonides left the family of nine impoverished when their property was
confiscated. Origen, however, was taken under the protection of a woman
of wealth and standing; but as her household already included a heretic
named Paul, the strictly orthodox Origen seems to have remained with her
only a short time.

Since his father's teaching enabled him also to give elementary
instruction, he revived, in 203, the Catechetical School of Alexandria,
whose last teacher, Clement of Alexandria, was apparently driven out by
the persecution. But the persecution still raged, and the young teacher
unceasingly visited the prisoners, attended the courts, and comforted
the condemned, himself preserved from harm as if by a miracle. His fame
and the number of his pupils increased rapidly, so that Bishop Demetrius
of Alexandria, made him restrict himself to instruction in Christian
doctrine alone.

Origen, to be entirely independent, sold his library for a sum which
netted him a daily income of 4 obols on which he lived by exercising the
utmost frugality. Teaching throughout the day, he devoted the greater
part of the night to the study of the Bible and lived a life of rigid
asceticism. According to some traditions, he carried this to such an
extent that, fearing that his position as a teacher of women as well as
men might give ground for scandal to the heathen, he followed Matthew
19:12 literally and castrated himself; this action, if accurately
reported, was likely partly influenced, too, by his belief that the
Christian must follow the words of his Master without reserve. Later in
life, however, he saw reason to judge differently concerning his extreme
act. The historical accuracy of this supposed castration has been
doubted by some scholars. It has been postulated that this story was
circulated by Origen's rivals in an effort to lessen his importance or
to otherwise sully his reputation.

Ouch!!!laugh

davinci1952's photo
Wed 05/23/07 09:10 AM
spunky..I agree..it would be pointless if this was it..

thanks rainbow

I have read that Jesus may have travelled Asian and the east
during his learning days..if so then it would seem that reincarnaton
would certainly be talked about by him