Topic: U.S. Housing Market...
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Fri 05/23/14 02:20 PM

Simple. The government now controls our healthcare so it will simply control our housing too. indifferent


Read all about it: Agenda 21

Or you could just listen to this lady: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDtCb45Lqt0 Wow, a liberal democrat giving a presentation about UN Agenda 21 to a Tea Party meeting, can't get any more real than that.

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Fri 05/23/14 02:21 PM




and,thanks to Obama, we all now have affordable health care.:tongue:


laugh me thinks this allegedly affordable healthcare scheme was in the making many, many seasons and moons before Obama was hand picked to be the spokesman and figurehead... :wink:

You mean thanks to Bill and Hillary?ohwell


Kinda looks suspiciously like a quacking duck to me... :wink:


That's what the ducks think as they fly into the blind, in this world much is not as it seems.

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Fri 05/23/14 02:30 PM

I can just imagine how high rent will be on the new apartment complexes being built to house those who were scammed by the AMA. Big money is going to stay big money regardless to how it affects the rest of us penny pinchers.


The big misconception is money. There has been no money in this country since that fateful day in 1913. But just to make sure it was further enforced by another great "executive order" in 1933, reinforced in 1968. And to instill on the world the full truth, Nixon completed the sequence in 1971 with another of those infamous "executive orders".

So there is no real money, just little fiat pieces of paper they let you play with so long as you pledge to be partial slave and surrender a portion of your life in return.

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Fri 05/23/14 02:39 PM

Sure you can blame the law that gives incentives to banks to loan to high risk people, but I prefer to shift that over to people who take bigger loans than they could afford.


Wow, you should have been around Stockton, CA. People were getting from $10,000 to $20,000 in cash at closing, getting to live in this fabulous house from 6 months to a year and keep the money.

And it really had nothing to do with the banks, this was the sub prime game, the ones that were bundled and sold to investors, mainly retirement accounts, that thought they have very secure mortgage backed securities. All the money were the huge fees that were spread around to everyone but the eventual losers, the investment funds. And the laws were passed with the full knowledge of the game, the game that put money in their pockets, fraudulent money.

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Fri 05/23/14 02:46 PM

That is like saying since the government allows you to buy a gun then they are equally responsible if you kill someone with it. I disagree. It is the individuals responsibility. You take out a loan it is your responsibility to pay it. No one else's.


The error in your statement is the belief that mankind is inherently moral. There are always those, steadily increasing in numbers, that will prove you wrong. And it has become the responsibility of the government to insure the numbers steadily increase.

Speaking of government, what is the difference between legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government? Absolutely nothing, same decrepit bunch of lawyers.

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Fri 05/23/14 03:06 PM

As simplistic as my personal view is I think the basic ingredient missing that would help rectify our failing and struggling economy even with all of the elements still intact is a shift in ideology.

Money is the root to all evil. We "rich and poor" thrive on living above our means and we risk everything "love, money, families, security" to reach for our dreams whether they are lofty or meek in nature.

Selfishness and greed can take each and every one of us to our knees when the next player with higher aspirations comes along and pulls the rug out when we're so focused on our own schemes that we lose sight of the bigger picture.

As uncomfortable and old fashioned that sacrificing and living within our means can make us feel, instead of striving to be the number one top dog at any cost, I believe an equal balance could be reached with belt tightening starting from the top not the bottom.

Jeeeez.... it really doesn't take a freakin' genius to look around the globe and see how the masses are reacting when they've finally had enough of being royally f**ked by those in power over them.

Do those in power here at home really think they will be able to prevent the tide from rising when nature finally takes it course and all hell breaks loose?

America is a combustible melting pot with a lid that's been primed and ready to explode for decades. The youth of this generation have minds of their own and there are more of those who don't seem to place much faith or respect in their elders than those that do.

It's just a matter of time before our country... well... let me just say that I don't see things moving on the tolerant and inclusive track that is being claimed we're all venturing forward on from where I sit in my tiny corner of the earth.


Money is not the root of all evil, never has been, never will be. Ignorance is the root of all evil. Since only knowledge eradicates ignorance, it is our duty and moral obligation to educate ourselves, as well as the masses around us.

It is the lack of selfishness that is the problem, not the abundance. That goes back to ignorance, the ignorance of not understanding selfishness, to mind ones own affairs. The ignorant are too busy minding everyone else's business while theirs is in complete disarray.

Again, it is the ignorance of the masses that keeps them the perfect little victims, so easily shucked like a prime oyster. It is those same ignorant masses that bow before those that have no authority over them than that granted by the ignorant. It is only with the consent of the ignorant that any authority is granted at all. It is this ignorance that has granted the public "servant" the illusion of being the master over those they serve.

But you are right on one thing, it is but a matter of time, a time now so advanced that the inevitable must occur before corrections can be made. And the inevitable will not be pretty, not will it be pleasant, but it will be.

This country is but like the Titanic, some have seen the iceberg, the masses are not aware. It is too late to turn or to stop, the only thing remaining is the disaster and collecting the survivors. Too few lifeboats, too many too late to be saved.

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Fri 05/23/14 03:10 PM

That is like saying since the government allows you to buy a gun then they are equally responsible if you kill someone with it.

I disagree.

It is the individuals responsibility.

You take out a loan it is your responsibility to pay it. No one else's.


What I am saying is that human nature persuades us all to live like there's no tomorrow. To take risks that would allow us to get what we want out of our lives without much thought of any negative consequences until we have to face them. And our aims whether we are at the top or the bottom of the totem pole are basically all the same.

And regardless to whether we invent or change laws to sanction our greed and clear our conscious as we compete in the rat race to get ahead, or we just fly by the seat of our pants and hope for the best, we are all equally responsible for the gigantic mess we've collectively made here in the USA, and pointing fingers to shift the blame isn't doing a damn thing to fix anything.

It's time for those in powerful positions to man up and set the example for the rest of us.

These are simply my personal beliefs and are not meant to persuade or dissuade others from their own personal beliefs.



That's just how we got here, it's always someone else's responsibility, never ours, the creed of entitlement.

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Fri 05/23/14 03:14 PM

Please forgive my contrary stance it is not meant to offend... but I do not see anything in our country as an entitlement for the working class. There are absolutely no handouts. None of us are receiving anything we are not giving up something else to get. And we can change the way things are if they aren't working for the majority who takes a stand and voices/votes in a new era.


That's the definition of entitlement, somebody gets, somebody gives. Those that have, give, those that don't get, but everybody becomes somehow enslaved.

Yes there are handouts, otherwise the system would collapse of it's own weight.

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Fri 05/23/14 03:22 PM

Silly girl, don't you see? In our new entitlement society, no one has to work. Working class and hard work is a thing of the past. One just has to apply for what they want and they better damm sure get it. It's trickle up poverty.


Yeah, and the key is that "application", to beg. If it's so good for you, why would one need to apply, shouldn't it be offered? And why must one sign to apply, should it be the one offering that signs to give.

Simple answer, the slave theory in operation.

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Fri 05/23/14 03:27 PM

Getting back to the original topic ...

What I see going on in the USA is the promotion of a bad philosophy about home ownership.

Way too many Americans treat the buying of a house the same way that they treat the buying of an automobile. They want to be able to trade in their current model for a newer one every few years.


And what would be wrong with that? Is this another socialist rule, one to a customer? No, this country still has some remnant of a free one, if they is what they have the means to do, then that is their right.

Perhaps that is the reason the renters should always be inferior to owners, the protection of property right from those not having property and wanting equality.

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Sat 05/24/14 02:26 AM
Edited by AthenaRose2 on Sat 05/24/14 02:28 AM


I can attest to the fact that they will NOT have affordable health care either. And I have been trying to warn and educate people about the stark realities for years.

Here in Alabama I own my home out right and don't have to worry about being put in the streets. But when it pertains to my health care needs the insurance quotes the Market Place gave me is too far above my price range to afford.

And I don't make enough money to afford the high cost of health care that my long term medical condition requires. But there's not any programs or government entities to help people like me.

Instead I have to make due without, and if I voice my complaints too loudly I get ridiculed and condemned for being a chronic complainer that can't even afford the basic cost of living.

But at least I'm not in the streets, right?


It is questionable if own the building but definitely not the land upon which it sits witnessed by the fact you must pay property taxes. Failure to pay those taxes will result in the state seizing the land and all else not easily removable upon it. So unless you can restore a right of ownership above that of fee simple, then it is just an illusion.

And health care is not expensive, medical care is. There is a world of difference. Most people are under the illusion that to be healthy requires medicine when in actuality it is just the opposite.

If you want to be healthy, drop the medicines and restore the body to it's natural health. All it takes is diet, pure natural wholesome raw vegetables. You can even grow them right in your back yard at the fraction of the cost of the store. The taste and health benefits are just beyond description.


Luckily I live in a state where my property taxes are extremely affordable. So as long as I keep paying them the land on which my house sits is also deeded to be debt free.

Having been raised a vegetarian and naturalist then evolving into a meat eater and chemical user later in life I know about both ends of the spectrum when it pertains to physical health destruction and upkeep.

And I can assure you there are some physical conditions that CANNOT be handled simply with natural remedies.

So I appreciate your dogmatic take on these subjects but I'll stick to what I know works for me individually.

tongue2

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Sat 05/24/14 02:33 AM


agree it's not affordable. if you look at it closely you have to come out of pocket deductible and premiums in the thousands before it's worth it.... just pay the penalty fee. it's cheaper. :/ sadly it's only affordable to low income.


Do even better, refuse to pay the penalty and fight for your rights. But neglecting health is not cheaper, it just leads to medicine.


I have been fighting for my rights as an outsider looking in for 3 decades. And I can personally attest to the facts that without the right connections and money to defend your position no matter how right you might be the doors to opportunity stay closed by the status quo.

For someone who does a lot of talking you really don't appear to know very much.

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Sat 05/24/14 02:41 AM


It isn't meant as a derogatory insult against the people but the system that is steadily stripping our abilities to progress away from the middle and lower classes due to the elites own greed and hands in our pockets.


That is not the cause, just the effect. It is just another excuse by the masses to keep from accepting responsibility for their actions. They are under the illusion that a small group of people somehow have a magical hold on a dominantly bigger mass. That is only possible when that dominantly bigger mass refuses to accept responsibility for their own actions.

To get to the cause you must go to the source, the ignorant masses. Only when a sufficient quantity of the ignorant accept knowledge will things truly start to change.

Last time that number was approximately 17%, but then they deemed it necessary to use force to counter violence. Currently that number is projected at approximately 20%, but it has not become necessary to use force, but with the increased violence of the government, who knows. So either one of two things must occur. First, either the government will increase the level of violence that there is no option but force, not the good choice but seldom is the choice of government good. Or, second the percentage of people willing to take peaceful action must increase dramatically, don't need a majority but enough to effect change, not Odumbo change, real change.


While the masses are being blamed for their ignorance it is those in power who are intentionally keeping them that way, uneducated, specifically to make them more malleable and amenable to being taken advantage of and then blamed for being so human and/or stupid.

In my opinion, it is those with the knowledge between good and evil and still choose to practice evil so they can prosper above the rest that are far more accountable for their educated actions.


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Sat 05/24/14 02:43 AM



The concept of being "under water" with a mortgage is really an artificial concept. As long as a home owner can afford the mortgage payments, then the person is still a home owner no matter what the current market value of the home is.


Thank you for simplifying this particular "under water" part of the US housing market issues our country is currently facing since the bubble burst and so many Americans lives have been turned upside down.

We can be thankful that many are still in their homes, and hope they'll be able to maintain what they have for years to come.


What about the current bubble? And all those pins.


It's only a matter of time before all the pricks take us down yet again, and deeper in debt.

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Sat 05/24/14 02:47 AM


After all, it's not like we're really getting any good news about our overall economy being on the upswing and things are going to get better from now on.


Good news, I would think that with the overabundance of signs that there will be no good news should rest on most peoples minds, but that wont happen, everything will just keep coasting along until the big boom and then everyone will just act surprised, the old who would have know syndrome.


You can lead sheep to... but...

Those who are wise won't be taken by surprise...

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Sat 05/24/14 02:49 AM


So the sellers market has reached a stalemate right now because those with employment can't make the non-affordable adjustments to the rules currently in play?


And just what sellers market are you referring to? The last sellers market was the 2005 bubble that so ceremoniously exploded in 2008.


Sellers market... those with homes/property to sell.. duh...

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Sat 05/24/14 02:50 AM


laugh me thinks this allegedly affordable healthcare scheme was in the making many, many seasons and moons before Obama was hand picked to be the spokesman and figurehead... :wink:


Well for sure about Odumbo being hand picked, he told a friend back in 1998 he would be president, not may, would.

But Odumbocare was his price of admission, the price to be paid to be dictator. And he has not disappointed.


He has played his part, just as those who follow him will likewise do the same in this land of the free and home of the brave game we all take bets on to see who loses and who wins.

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Sat 05/24/14 03:02 AM


As simplistic as my personal view is I think the basic ingredient missing that would help rectify our failing and struggling economy even with all of the elements still intact is a shift in ideology.

Money is the root to all evil. We "rich and poor" thrive on living above our means and we risk everything "love, money, families, security" to reach for our dreams whether they are lofty or meek in nature.

Selfishness and greed can take each and every one of us to our knees when the next player with higher aspirations comes along and pulls the rug out when we're so focused on our own schemes that we lose sight of the bigger picture.

As uncomfortable and old fashioned that sacrificing and living within our means can make us feel, instead of striving to be the number one top dog at any cost, I believe an equal balance could be reached with belt tightening starting from the top not the bottom.

Jeeeez.... it really doesn't take a freakin' genius to look around the globe and see how the masses are reacting when they've finally had enough of being royally f**ked by those in power over them.

Do those in power here at home really think they will be able to prevent the tide from rising when nature finally takes it course and all hell breaks loose?

America is a combustible melting pot with a lid that's been primed and ready to explode for decades. The youth of this generation have minds of their own and there are more of those who don't seem to place much faith or respect in their elders than those that do.

It's just a matter of time before our country... well... let me just say that I don't see things moving on the tolerant and inclusive track that is being claimed we're all venturing forward on from where I sit in my tiny corner of the earth.


Money is not the root of all evil, never has been, never will be. Ignorance is the root of all evil. Since only knowledge eradicates ignorance, it is our duty and moral obligation to educate ourselves, as well as the masses around us.

It is the lack of selfishness that is the problem, not the abundance. That goes back to ignorance, the ignorance of not understanding selfishness, to mind ones own affairs. The ignorant are too busy minding everyone else's business while theirs is in complete disarray.

Again, it is the ignorance of the masses that keeps them the perfect little victims, so easily shucked like a prime oyster. It is those same ignorant masses that bow before those that have no authority over them than that granted by the ignorant. It is only with the consent of the ignorant that any authority is granted at all. It is this ignorance that has granted the public "servant" the illusion of being the master over those they serve.

But you are right on one thing, it is but a matter of time, a time now so advanced that the inevitable must occur before corrections can be made. And the inevitable will not be pretty, not will it be pleasant, but it will be.

This country is but like the Titanic, some have seen the iceberg, the masses are not aware. It is too late to turn or to stop, the only thing remaining is the disaster and collecting the survivors. Too few lifeboats, too many too late to be saved.


The first completely reasoned thing I've read from you in which I can totally agree. It's nice to see there is a semblance of reality and feel for humanity somewhere beneath all that bluster. :wink:

No offense intended... flowerforyou

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Sat 05/24/14 03:25 AM


Please forgive my contrary stance it is not meant to offend... but I do not see anything in our country as an entitlement for the working class. There are absolutely no handouts. None of us are receiving anything we are not giving up something else to get. And we can change the way things are if they aren't working for the majority who takes a stand and voices/votes in a new era.


That's the definition of entitlement, somebody gets, somebody gives. Those that have, give, those that don't get, but everybody becomes somehow enslaved.

Yes there are handouts, otherwise the system would collapse of it's own weight.


This is a matter of my own personal insight from my small window's view.

The employed working class do not get handouts. Handouts are for the system dependent and then what they do get these days is far less than they once received because they too are being severely restrained from getting ahead in any way.

Wallowing in the muck and the mire without proper education, employment, nourishment, housing, healthcare or attire seems to be the elite's only agenda for the majority of us at the lower end of the spectrum.

The upper classes are only looking out for themselves and they've created the perfect system whereby they can screen and let in or deny access to anyone and everyone based on their own criteria and set of standards.

And regardless to how much we fight or work hard to get out of the rut's we have made for ourselves or have been placed in by those who don't want us to succeed nothing is going to change until "we" as "the people" do from the inside out.

IMO...

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Sat 05/24/14 12:15 PM

Luckily I live in a state where my property taxes are extremely affordable. So as long as I keep paying them the land on which my house sits is also deeded to be debt free.


Your land is not debt free, you receive your rent notice on an annual basis. And you may have a deed, but it breaks down to "fee simple" form the British system of a fief from a fiefdom, meaning your owe a fief, your property taxes, each year to the fiefdom. Failure to pay means ejection from the property. So unless you can claim allodial title, then the state owns and it is not debt free, just the bank vultures are hanging about.


Having been raised a vegetarian and naturalist then evolving into a meat eater and chemical user later in life I know about both ends of the spectrum when it pertains to physical health destruction and upkeep.

And I can assure you there are some physical conditions that CANNOT be handled simply with natural remedies.

So I appreciate your dogmatic take on these subjects but I'll stick to what I know works for me individually.

tongue2


Sorry, I recognize no shortcomings of nature, the body can heal anything except for the damage man insists on maintaining. If man is still drawing breath and is willing to return to nature, the body will totally repair itself.

It is only modern man that beliefs that the connotation of vegetarian means something that it doesn't. Nature did not mean man to be meat free, some vitamins and minerals require fats to be delivered to the cells, fats that are much easier to acquire from meat. But even the meat itself has nutrients that man best assimilates from that meat, meat derived from grass fed grazing animals, another thing man has destroyed.

And the vegetables themselves, they are but a fraction of what they could be. Even organic is a misnomer, only reflects the lack of chemicals, not the addition of nutrients. Man has spent the better part of the last century destroying the refreshment of the earth with the essential nutrients. They have been flushed down the drain or dumped in some landfill to make methane.

So until you really understand food and nutrients, I agree with you, things can't be cured or abated. But drugs will help to mask the symptoms all the way until they kill you. Worth billions of dollars a year, all in the name of slow death and maximum revenue.