There is a place in the bible that says "the wisdom of this world is
foolishness to God" Also: "He takes the wise in their own craftiness",
Also: professing themselves to be wise, they became fools". Let me tell
you man, i'm one of the most non-judgemental persons that you will ever
meet, but i'm not gonna lie to you either, you are confused about alot
of things if you think that wicca is right. I'm not calling any of you
evil, just decieved. i feel sorry for you, your only hope is Christ, not
church, not so called christianity, but Christ

Don't feel sorry for me. Just read whats in front of you.

I never once said Wicca is right. Read what I wrote. As for the passage
you quoted try reading a few passages before and after to understand who
it was directed at. Surely not the Wicca. It speaks of Craftiness, the
word is not what some believe it to be. To be Crafty is to be sly. So I
believe Craftiness would mean the art of being sly. Wouldn't you? I am
not decieved in any way shape or form. You may not believe the same as I
do, yet we do believe in the same GOD! The difference is it took me 30
yrs to get back to where I am today.

Why do you think I know the scriptures? Its not because of you. Think
about it my friend, just because I know of these practices does that
mean I practice them? Open your bible and you will find scriptures to
learn of the gift of sight, and many other gifts passed to people of
this earth.

Look at what Poet posted here is there one thing that scares you? Other
than Witch? or Wicca? Maybe The book of shadows? These are all words
that until the middle ages were used in everyday conversations. Do not
be afraid, learn a little about God, read and understand the bible.
Thats all I ask. Thats all anyone can ask for even God.

Until you know what these things are you are not able to judge this Lady
or her beliefs. I know of these things, I know what they are. They are
not dangerous to you me or anyone else. If you read this post you will
see that to harm another for any gain is very costly. The cost is far
too high for a person of the earth to pay. Believe me when I tell you it
is far to costly.

G

i hear you bro, believe me, i hear you, i was just hoping to say
something that would get you to think a little about what you are
saying, and supporting, you are talking to an ex - pagan here man,
believe me, i know more than you think, and for the most part, every
pagan i've ever known is just someone who has been hurt, and uses this
as a form of screaming out for love, it's a trap because it masquerades
itself as love, self-awareness, wisdom, and it makes a person who is
normally rejected feel accepted, but the truth of the matter is it is a
trap

also, that's about all i have to say, peace out

Ex Pagaon. That's pretty absolute.

What about it didn't you go for man. And what about it did you go for?

I mean. What about it is the difference?

Isn't Peace the whole fuckin job?

I dont now anything about the Pagan belief system other than the
source... Please advise.
There are always elements of good in any of these false religions,
if I may call them that. Take one of my favorite false religions....
Catholic. Yet some of the finest people you will ever meet are catholic.
Look at thier schools, Hospitals, missions around the world. So despite
the lack of following scripture to the letter, They do some wonderous
works.
I have no doubt that the TRUE BELIVERS include Buddists, Native
Americans, Catholics, ect.

I expecially am confused by those who hate the 10 comandments in
public places... I CALL them the top 10. Anyway, What is so offensive
about these 10 laws? Or is it just the source??? Shouldnt matter what
the source is, they remain a very good top ten Laws to live by as far
as I can determine....Hmmmmm

The religion you surely practice evolved from catholicism..What does
that make your religion..?? All modern day american christian faiths
derive from catholicism..Rambill has trapped himself inside his own
logic..This is where faith break down and gives to science..Now, that
being said.. I still beleive in miracles.. Like it is a miracle that
rambill can tie his shoes in the morning,,Assuming he can of
course..WILL

i DONT PRACTICE ANY RELIGION AND IN FACT AM NOT RELIGIOUS. At least
not in the sense of the worlds vuews of religion. I pray, read the
bible, discucss with others and draw the obvious conclusions. My logic
you will find to be rock solid. The truth today is so far removed from
what most people or expecially some self proclaimed "christians" believe
it to be that it is, from my chair, really quite laughable in a very sad
way.
I have more " religious" background than most, and find so many holes
in all the church doctrine that I dont know how any truth can be found
there at all.
Who killed Jesus?
The Sanhedrein.. the religious rulers of thier day.

The bible talks about people going to church to be fulfilled, but
comming away empty. Churches are Good for fellowship which is an
important part of faith, but as for truth, Good luck.
No man can serve two masters, God and Mammon...
Look up the 501c3 tax Exempt requirements for churches on the IRS
website... One of the largest movements in churches in this country
right now is to get rid of this 501c3 status, and the problems it causes
in conflict with Gods laws.

you didnt answer my question..WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT MODERN DAY
CHRISTIANITY IF IT DERIVED FROM CATHOLICISM??will

I already drew you a huge picture of what I think of modern religion.
HELLO??????????????????

then why so much faith..??WILL

THE BIBLE REMAINS TRUE... EVERY WORD VERIFIED. dISPROVE ONE VERSE AND
ill throw it away.
Dont make the mistake of confusing faith in God with religiousness.
Doing so will create grave errors.

it has been translated too many times for that..The changes disprove..It
is a fine fable with amny great stories and morals but that is ALL>WILL\
PLease note that i still believe in faith and magic and miracles.This is
not an attack on christians just a staement of my belief>>

faith and miracles ar scriptual. Magic can get more problematic but some
could argue that it is illusion, not really black arts.
The Bible is solid, This stuff about the newer translations are true,
but thre differences are stuff like: in the top 10, Thou shalt not
kill.. A better translation appears to be shall not MURDER. i have gone
over the greek and hebrew scriptures and find little out of place. Some
argue that the changes themselves were ordained by God. I tend to take
more credence in the origional texts myself. Neither view contradicts
itself as far as I can tell. Just some mis translations. The big G GOD
IS another example. God in the KJV WOULD BE BETTER TRANSLATED Yaweh, or
Jehova God. Doesent change anything, just a different language.

you win..There is no convincing you that we all have peices of the
truth, no one owns it..SO here is something you wanted to hear all
along..you alone know the truth..I am too retarded to otu think you ..I
am himbled by your towereing intellect..please smite me ..WILL

actually the law is to teach. I am a teacher. You can either accept it
at face value. (which i wouldent reccomend) or do your own research. I
once prayed for true wisdom. I got it in truckloads . Be careful what
you pray for ,as you will get it. anyway, I just am trying to point out
what I have learned in my walk thru life. You are interested in growing
or you would not be engaging in this dialog with me. God bless.

CCPOET...VERY VERY WELL written stuff about Wicca. My nephew and his ex
wife were into Wicca...I am glad to see that Wicca has written things
about it, so people can decide, for themselves what they want to
believe. Years and years ago, I use to be into Witch Craft but it was
not like Wicca...I think, maybe, Wicca is more like what we use to call,
''White Magic''...is that true? I was into Black Magic. I turned away
from that to a Christian religion, now. Thank you for this post and
thank you, everyone else for the debate!

Truth,
The magics you ask about sre not the same as Wicca, They are completely
different in there ways and customs. It is hard to explain what White
and Black magics are in this forum, however they are not the same and
should not be put into the same beliefs as Pagan beliefs or Wicca. Many
people are confused about these religions/beliefs and lump them into one
category. It's kind of like Will saying all christian religions are
based on the Catholic religion. They have things in common yet they are
different, and many are based on the catholic religion but not all.

Read what Rambill said, even though he and I have had a few words about
different things in this forum the basic belief of Christ is the same. I
believe he died for mankind to be forgiven for his sins.

That doesn't mean that if I am forgiven for an act against the ten
commandments that I can be forgiven over and over again for the same
sin. Just because you confess you did wrong isn't enough in my opinion.
To be forgiven and learn from your errors in judgement and not to make
the same errors again is to be forgiven. I am not perfect any more than
the next guy, but I try like hell to be the best and honest as I am
able.

This basic belief is what I have been trying to get across in this
thread without coming off as a preacher. I am like Rambill I have
studied several different religions and beliefs to come to where I am
today. Christian, Not catholic, not protestant, not baptist, nor any of
the other organized religions that practice christianity. I am very firm
in my beliefs as many here and in asmuch will stand toe to toe in my
beliefs. Like Rambill said Show me where the Bible is wrong and I will
toss it. My belief in the Bible is this. I believe in the Bible as far
as it is translated correctly. If I have questions on translations I
pray about it. I know in my heart who I am and what I believe. My wish
is that people will stop slamming different beliefs just because they no
nothing about them. That is not how to learn, to learn is to read and
make your own decisions on what is right or wrong.

If after reading what I posted you ask yourself why I defend Wicca, Look
at the Ten commandments and look at the laws Poet posted here. She is
following the ten commandments just the same as I do. It IS worded
differently however she still follows them in her beliefs.

G

THANK YOU, VERY MUCH! I love having serious posts on forums..much better
than JUST the bull...but the bull, in justsayhi is FUN, but not very
enlightening, sometimes. Again, TY!