Forgery, exaggeration and flat out false documentation isn't limited to religious figures. Even now thousands of years later historians are proving things myths from ancient times. For example for a long time Cleopatra was said to be one of the most beautiful women alive. Yet recent evidence has come up that she was rather unattractive and got by on charm, not looks. I didn't say the historical account of Jesus is one way or another. I'm just calling out the faulty logic of somebody ill informed.

"Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed, while expressing a wide spectrum of opinions on how accurately the views of the historical Jesus are reflected in the picture presented by the early Christian movement."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

I normally don't use wiki as a source but this particular page correlates with studies of my own. I tried to give you respect in my first responses and it didn't seem to pay off. If you're just going to pull things out of your butt and use it to disregard other people's posts, I'm going to tell you about it.

I'm just telling you right now I'm a ridiculous history buff and you're wrong on this. I've taken ancient history courses taught by atheists and they too agreed Jesus existed. The point of contention as I said before is who exactly he was and what exactly he did. You already told me you're not a believer and I respect your feelings but don't go around making idiotic, ill informed statements that he didn't exist in general.

If you actually took the time to study Archaeology and history you'd quickly learn that whether or not Jesus existed or not has never been contested, even by scientists and atheists. The point of contention regarding Jesus historically is WHO or WHAT was he. Even non believers have concluded he existed and was a great speaker, had many followers and was a great guy morally during that time period (similar to a Gandhi type). What they DON'T believe is that he was the Messiah, performed miracles or is the son of God.

Only God would be able to tell you this. How can you try to understand this from a human perspective and apply human logic to a non human entity? Do you apply human logic to animals too? It doesn't make sense to even try if you believe. This ties into free will and God wanting to give us that freedom to make choices. I think it's more fulfilling for us and him that way.

I agree with you 100 percent that we all fall short and sin. The best of us do it. I'm merely saying that we should never condemn others. As Jesus said why do you point out the speck in your neighbors eye while you have a plank in yours. I was trying to just point out that many of those in power and handing out the harshest judgments can be the most deviant in some cases.

I'm confused on what you're asking. Accepting Jesus means to have a prayer that you receive Jesus into your heart and want to change your life. It's not a set prayer, it's simply the start of a relationship with him and the opening of your heart. As I said before... it's not some thing where you have to "give up" anything really. Naturally you MAY on your own accord give up things but that's not the point of this.

We are born separated from God our father and in my personal opinion the purpose of life is to restore that relationship so that we can live in eternity with him. In my case personally I didn't come to God because of preachers talking to me. I came to God because from the time I was 8 years old he spoke to me in dreams for years, each time picking up where we left off... to save me and take me away from the path I was going down.

You bring up some fair points and as a long time atheist prior to accepting Jesus I've said much of the same stuff, so I can relate. I don't like to be associated with "religion" because as you implied religion is very corrupt. Man likes to twist things to match their agenda and pass it as biblical law, when in fact if you read the material, you can easily prove them wrong.

Catholic priests will tell you that you are going to hell for being gay but then go home and molest kids. Or legalistic Protestants will say you can't drink or have premarital sex but then commit the even greater sin of condemning others to hell. This type of hypocrisy does nothing but divide and destroy. It confuses atheists/agnostics into thinking Christians are cult like when Christians that have truly seen the love of God aren't like this.

As for your questioning of why God lets bad things happen that's been widely discussed since the beginning of Christianity and I doubt anybody here can give you an answer that is satisfactory. Although while I feel God CAN intervene and stop all bad things there is a reason he doesn't. The same way he gave us free will to act good, he gave us free will to choose bad. So if he was to intervene he would be taking sides, which I don't see why he would.

Have you ever noticed how disaster and catastrophe brings people closer together? How would people who have their lives changed in these moments change their lives or find God if their entire life was good and easy from the beginning? Remember the kindness 9/11 brought out America? People dying to save complete strangers. You take away disaster and bad things and people don't grow.

The bottom line here is accepting Jesus. Everything else will fall into place over time and you'll change over time at your own pace. You're mentioning letting his children die for mistakes or what not but you're not being asked to completely change who you are (although that will likely naturally happen as you mature in faith). I'm still a sarcastic, goofy and fun loving guy who isn't held back at all by my faith. I want to go out with friends and have a beer, I do. I'm in love with a girl and I want to make love to her, I do. There is no mind blowing change you need to make.

I think the hard thing people have accepting is they have the idea that they have to GIVE UP everything, when in fact that's a myth that miserable, legalistic Christians suffer with. In fact I can give 20 examples on the spot of how my life has been made EASIER or gotten BETTER since I accepted Jesus.

I don't agree at all. The bible was made cannon by MEN, not God. Why do I need to take a book in it's entirety? You don't seem to understand what the old testament is based on your last post. It was laws written for the JEWS and instruction for God's chosen people, not gentiles or future generations of Christians. The old testament is nothing but a history book and an old, outdated covenant for the most part. As Jesus said... do not put new wine in old wineskins.

Now there are some other parts such as prophecy and Psalms/Proverbs which the current Christian should pay close attention to and learn from but when God is giving commands to or disciplining Jews in ancient times (most of old testament), that's not relevant to today. Besides Jesus came and fulfilled the law and gave a NEW covenant. The message of fire and brimstone was done and the mediator came to bring a message of love.

Besides what gave you the impression that I was trying to "prove" something Conrad. You can't "prove" anything to somebody who doesn't believe in something. Your own experiences in life will mold you and open or close your mind. Based on your posts, I think you've met some very rough Christians and that has hardened you to the idea of Christianity. I care about what happens to you but I would never force it on you or try to convince you really. The only people I would share the message of salvation with are those who want to hear it. Forcing beliefs on a non believer with a hardened heart to it has a negative effect and will push them further away.

All I'm trying to do here is shoot down common misconceptions.

I think I need to clarify some things because most of you seem to have been judged and mistreated by the "religious" types of fire and brimstone Christians, which I in no way, shape or form associate with. The ones that tell you that you will go to hell for this and that... and that this is a sin and all that. Or that you need to live a "holy" or "Godly" life. It's all a load of crap quite frankly.

Things like premarital sex, drinking, not going to church etc and commonly criticized things by these legalistic Christians are man made rules used to control people, not actual words of God. Jesus drank alcohol. The bible never addresses premarital sex ONCE, just adultery which is a different issue. The church is a body of believers fellowshipping together so why would not going to a building affect your salvation? Simple answer, it doesn't. Jesus didn't go to a church and neither did his disciples.

You get saved by grace and grace alone. Not by what you do or how you live. Is it better to live as a good person and try to make a positive difference? OF COURSE. That's not what it takes to be saved though.

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

John 10:28



It's important to remember that the bible is rife with wrong translations. At the last church I attended they had this original Roman translator and you'd be shocked at how much the meanings changed. Every single time it became less confusing and quite frankly better. It really made God look less rough and brutal to me which helped me evolve spiritually.

Jeannie this is a misinformed last post. The cannon belief among the average Christian is that a rapture will occur and believers will be taken, non believers will be left behind (it's a series too ;p). Then starts a period of tribulation where the 7 seals of God open up and his wrath is poured out on the earth.

So it's not accurate to say non believers won't survive necessarily or that believers will because technically believers won't even be here and non believers CAN survive, at least spiritually. During tribulation many will turn to God out of fear or out of circumstances changing their mindsets. So if you're left behind, you still have a chance.

Did you know that in the entire bible not once does it talk about premarital sex being "wrong" or morally an issue? The closest it comes to that is when it mentions adultery and lust, which aren't the same things.

I'm a Christian myself, but there is a HUGE, widespread problem right now with religious fanatics creating made up laws. I think all people should abstain from casual sex with somebody you don't love or truly care about... but that doesn't make it a sin. Besides even if it WAS a sin, we all fall short every single day and the price has been paid. Don't live in condemnation but rather be grateful that it's grace, not works by which we are saved.