You can disbelieve gravity. Doesn't change the out come of falling down.

There is evil in the world and it comes in all colors sizes and gender.

Just to mention some famous ones, Hitler, PolPot, Stalin, Duvalier, etc. Lets try the US, Ted Bundy, Columbine, Va Tech, Boston marathon, OK City, 9/11.

It isn't a question of belief.

Sorrry for the delay. I did not make myself clear. I equate " Religion" with rules and enforced ritual. A relationship is different. It is familiar and open. If you and I had a relationship it would be a different situation than if you were my boss.

Religion has caused more problems in this world than love. I love God He loves me. He tries to keep me on correct path. That may or may not be an easy one. I don't always follow directions well either.

I am sharing what I think God is telling me to. Your salvation is not my responsibility. Your conceptions aren't either. That is between you and Him.

I will not argue with you. I may disagree but that is all.

Now about Adam. God created man without sin. He was also given free will. Adam copped out on his responsibility to his wife and to God. Hence sin entered the world.

Jesus was born for only one reason and that was to be sacrificed tor that sin. You can believe it or not. It ain't my business. My business is to spread the Gospel not to worry about the fruit it bears. That is someone else's job.

I do hope you have a great day and that God blesses you in a special way.
Bill

You are soooo right in that. It is one of the biggest problems in "The Church" today. Judge not lest ye be judged. Another is don't judge a book by it's cover. If Jesus were to walk into to any of the majority of churches today he would be rejected because of how he looks. Long hair, beard, robe, sandals, dirty feet etc. I don't thinkHe looks at all like th epictures we see of Him. They all look like a woman with a beard. He is a Jew, a middle eastern Jew at that. Probably a longish hooked nose, dark complected, dark almost black eyes. Probably be looked at as a potential terorist.

A church should look at a new comer and ask, "what can we do for you?" The newcomer should ask themself the same question, "what can I do for you?"

Good question. When Moses asked "who shall I say sent me?" God replied, "Tell them I am". Orthodox Jews will not use term God but will use the Divine or some other term. Jehova or Yaweh is accepted but but open to argument because ancient Aramaic had no vowels.

I can't remember the name of the book I read about 20 years ago about the 6 or 7 names of God. El Shadai is one I remember because it is one of my favorite songs by Amy Grant. Jehova Jyra(sp) is another.

I think (that's a stretch) that the anme is unimportant. The fact that "I am" is sufficient.

Hope this helps. If I can find that book I will post the title.

Put 2 two year olds in a playpen with one toy and see if they share or fight. Been there done that.

As to Paul; I have never heard him, but will. I have read what he has written since it is most of the NT. His letters to the different churches of the first century are a guidepost for what we should be doing today. Unfortunately we ALL fall way short of the mark set for us. Funny thing is though that it is not an unattainable goal. Jesus proved it by living a sinless life.

Just as a thought about sin. We are told in the OT that sin is passed down from the father, not the mother. This is not to say that mom's are sinless (just to be obeyed without question under fear of death ). Jesus was born without sin yet did not break that scriptual truth because His mother was sinful but His Father was not.

Here's something to think about. Original sin, was it really Eve who sinned? Adam was created first and then God took somethng from Adam to create Eve. Adam was the head of the family. When Eve gave in to temptation Adam should have admonished her and brought her before God to confess his sin of not teaching and guiding his helpmeet. Instead he copped out, ate the fruit and then blamed his wife. Adam is the reason we are in the mess we are today, not Eve.

supernatural, mystical, or magical beliefs, practices or phenomena.

To be fair, as Chritians we will use the term in the wrong way too frequently. It can be confused with cultism like the Hari Chrishnas, or Jim Jones.

I have, personally, witnessed a true miracle. A healing that could not be expained by any doctor. A friend was dying of multiple system failures, Cardiac, liver, lungs, brain etc. Could not walk and was confined to a wheelchair on oxygen. He was prayed over and had hands laid on him and he got up and ran across the front of the church. 3 months later he went on a white water rafting trip with the men of the church. He passed away 2 1/2 years later. His cardiologist would not believe the trip until she was shown a picture of him in a raft on the river, in the rapids. This was someone in the advanced stages of CHF, Parkinsons, diabetes, and emphysema. His doctors gave him a few weeks to live.

Supernatural, yes. Mysticism, no. Magic, no. God, yes.

According to Oxford
re-li-gion n. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods:

details of belief as taught or discussed.

When I became a Christian I lost my religion. I traded it for a relationship with God the Father through His Son Jesus. As a Christian I have the right to call God, Pop, or Dad. That is what Jesus told us when He called Him Abba. Servants called the master Father but only children were allowed to use the term Abba. It is still in use today in Hebrew speaking groups.

Would you agree that Paul as "enlightened?" If so then why his statement about crucifying the flesh daily? If man was good by nature w would not have a need for prisons, police or laws for that matter. "All habe sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Who does ALL not include?

The different versions of the Bible, KJ NKJV, NIV etc etc. Differ inlanguage use. TH King James bible we all grew up with used the vernacular of the times in which it was written. I happen to prefer the NIV because it uses current vernacular. How many English speakers use thee and thou and whereforest shalt thou go? I get confused with the language. I asked a preacher once why he demanded that we use the KJV and he said because it was the acepted version. I asked about teh language confusion and was told that was what commentaries were for. Didin't make sense then and still doesn't now. If I read the KJV and then have to go to a commentary to translate 17th century Ennglish, why not just read the verse in 20th century English.

As an aside, the Bible does not try and prove the existance of God. Take the first 4 words, "In the beginning God." No explanation, no treatises on how or why, just "He is" or as in Exodus "I am."

I am not so sure about the "being good" part. We are evil by nature. Even Paul confessed that it was easier for him to do evil than good. I wish I were good then I wouldn't have to do anything but be me. Unfortuntely I am not good and so have to confess daily to Christ and ask the Father's forgiveness through Him.

Please, do not take this as an argument with you. I do not want discord amongst believers. Disagreements on practice, orders of service are fine, useless but, not dividing.

Current living Christians and those who have already died will not endure the 7 year tribulation. Those that convert during that time will have lived through an approximation of Hell. I would suggest reading the "Left Behind" series by Tim LeHaye and Jerry Jenkins. While fiction, the books do accurately depict what is in Revelation. Jerry Jenkins actually wrote the stories while Tim Lehaye did the research and assured the biblical accuracy.

But we do have a sense of humor. here are some actual excerpts from Sunday Bulletins. I would imagine that there were some red faces.


Back! Those wonderful Church Bulletins! (2)




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Gene Cruey ----- Original Message ----- From: ginajim225@comcast.net To: Donna Monroe ; Etta Emerick ; genecruey@comcast.net ; Pat McCoy Cc: tghansen8981@yahoo.com ; timpetty@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:18 PM Subject: Fw: They're Back! Those wond




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Me
To ,Gene Cruey,Pat Rich, and 17 More...



Jul 13














These are funny whether or not they are made up or real. How many of us have slipped up in an email or letter or speech and then wanted a hole to crawl into. Laughter is the best medicine.

Bill Barnes






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Click Me!















Bulletins!




Thank God for the church ladies with typewriters. These sentences actually appeared in church bulletins or were announced at church services:

>The Fasting & Prayer Conference includes meals.
>-------------------------------------------------------- > >

Scouts are saving aluminum cans, bottles & other items to be recycled. Proceeds will be used to cripple children.

>------------------------------------------------------- > >

The sermon this morning: Jesus Walks on the Water . The sermon tonight: Searching for Jesus .

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Ladies, don't forget the rummage sale. It's a chance to get rid of those things not worth keeping around the house. Bring your husbands.

>------------------------------------------------------ > >

Don't let worry kill you off - let the Church help.

>----------------------------------------------------- > >

Miss Charlene Mason sang I will not pass this way again, giving obvious pleasure to the congregation.

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For those of you who have children & don't know it, we have a nursery downstairs.

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Next Thursday there will be try-outs for the choir. They need all the help they can get

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Irving Benson & Jessie Carter were married on October 24 in the church. So ends a friendship that began in their school days. >--------------------------------------------------------- > >

A bean supper will be held on Tuesday evening in the church hall. Music will follow..

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At the evening service tonight, the sermon topic will be What Is Hell? Come early & listen to our choir practice.

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Eight new choir robes are currently needed due to the addition of several new members & to the deterioration of some older ones.

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Please place your donation in the envelope along with the deceased person you want remembered..

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The church will host an evening of fine dining, super entertainment & gracious hostility. >----------------------------------------------------- > >

Pot-luck supper Sunday at 5:00 PM - prayer & medication to follow.

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The ladies of the Church have cast off clothing of every kind. They may be seen in the basement on Friday afternoon.

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This evening at 7 PM there will be a hymn singing in the park across from the Church. Bring a blanket & come prepared to sin.

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The pastor would appreciate it if the ladies of the Congregation would lend him their electric girdles for the pancake breakfast next Sunday.

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Low Self Esteem Support Group will meet Thursday at 7 PM . Please use the back door.

>-------------------------------------------------------- > >

The eighth-graders will be presenting Shakespeare's Hamlet in the Church basement Friday at 7 PM. The congregation is invited to attend this tragedy.

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Weight Watchers will meet at 7 PM at the First Presbyterian Church. Please use large double door at the side entrance.

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And this one just about sums them all up > > >The Associate Minister unveiled the church's new campaign slogan last Sunday: >'I Upped My Pledge - Up Yours.' > >

This is a true story. If you know the song "He is Exalted" the beginning is, "He is exalted the King is exalted on high and I will praise him". I love that song and it was a favorite at church many years ago. Our sound technician had a 5 year old daughter that attended with Mom and dad. On the way home one Sunday after singing that song his daughter, in the car seat in back , started singing "He is a sausage the King is a sausage on high." He almost had a wreck laughing. His daughter didn't know exalted from Adam's house cat, but she knew that she loved sausages. I would guess that God Himself laughed at that one.

El Shadai by Amy Grant or He lifts me up by Celtic Women or about 30 more. Difficult question.

Is it what we see from the Jim Bakers, or Jimmy Swaggarts of TV fame or is it from the exploits of people like Billy and Franklin Graham (both of whom I have met), or Mother Theresa. Everything good can be corrupted and will be. There is a saying about not throwing the baby out with the bath water. That is definitely relevant today. The practicing of true christianity does not threaten anyone or anything. What are the two most basic principles taught by Christ? Love the Lord your God with all your heart mind and strength. The other part of that is to love your neighbor as yourself. Please, anyone tell me the evil in that.

Yes, terrible things have happened over the centuries in the name of Christianity. None of those things were taught by Jesus or any of the inscribers of the Bible. If I go on a killing spree and scream that I am doing this in the name of McDonalds, does that mean we condemn McDonalds? I am no fan of McDonalds but that is a preference not a condemnation.

All I ask is that you have an open mind and heart. Be critical in your thinking and examine facts. I did for about 27 years before I finally realized that there is a God, He does love me, and I have a place reserved at His table. Am I perfect? Yeah right and I am also the King of Spain, and a world class athelete.

I will say this again at the expense of being obtuse. If you are right and Christians are wrong what have we lost? If, on the other hand, Christians are right and you are wrong what have you lost?

When I was in elementary school we were told that Pontius Pilate was not a real person just a legend. About 5 or 6 years later an archaelogical dig found a column or corner stone dating to the first century AD that had the name Pontius Pilate as Procurator of Jerusalem inscribed on it. I remember being told that the miracles in the OT never happened and now I see on Discovery how they are trying to be explained, extra miraculous.

The birth of Christ was foretold over 200 times in the OT. His birth and crucifixion all happened exactly how Isaiah prophesied.

Explain to me how one mere man of legend. In the public eye for less than 3 years has had such an impact 2,000+ years later. It has only been recently that we have stopped using BC and AD. To be politically correct it is now BCE and CE. Interesting enough is that the meaning of C has been changed from Christ to Common. But not before transitioning through Christian.

I believe that, recently, in a dig near Babylon they found part of an inscription that coincides with the book of Daniel 5 25 Mene Mene Tekel Parsin. This occured during the reign of Belshazzar.

Now I will say this, many teachings in the bible were examples and may not have depicted actual occurances. We don't know if teh prodigal son was real or an example Jesus used to teach teh forgiveness and love of God. Really doesn't matter. All scripture is useful, even those parts that we don't yet fully understand.

As to accuracy down through the ages, we only have to look at the recoverance of the book of Isaiah found in the dead sea scrolls. If memory serves me correctly there were 3 word differences that in no way impacted the interpretation of what was said.

I am not a preacher and get no money for what I am saying. So what is my reason?

I was not clear in the point I was trying to make. In other posts I have tried to explain that God gave us free will. He gave Adam and then Eve free will and they disobeyed a simple command. Thus sin entered the world. We are are all sinful. Remember the word ALL. The saving grace is that Jesus Christ paid the price for ALL our sins it is just a matter of accepting that fact.

Now let me ask you a question. If you are right and I am wrong, what have I lost upon my physical death? Nothing at all. Now let us suppose that I am right and you are wrong. What do you lose at your physical death?

Having started out in the hitech field while in the Navy from 1960-1969 and then civilian until 5 years ago. I have been a service tech on hardware of all kinds from radar, radio, ECM, and ccomputers. Have aided in design of boards, and bench testing and field service. For the end 30 years of my career I was a programmer. I learned that it is closer to art than to science. You create something out of nothing. Yes knowing math helps, but I have seen the quality of the current crop of geniuses and realize that the art is going away and being replaced by glitz. There are games that are great and challenging and then there are those that are pure trash but sell because of violence and/or sex.

Yes it is science, but without the art it is dead.

My neighbors are from Edmonton Alberta. Long way from home. About 30 miles south of Guadalajara.