100% FREE ONLINE DATING
sponsored links
Previous
| Topic: Rise of atheism. | |
|---|---|
|
Edited by
jrbogie
on
Wed 07/20/11 03:05 AM
|
|
mykesorrel, I like your use of BBCodes.  Ha-ha, thanks. I wasn't even really trying to get this deep into the topic of God, because no matter what, people have to come to their conclusions on there own - my only problem is people who believe their conclusion is right and try to govern the world with it. Off to classes. ah, but you have another, more immediate problem; figuring out who's post you're replying to. lol. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I really love you guys and the diversity of opinions, but ya know sometimes I think, "Does EVERYTHING have to become a freakin' debate???"  actually, NOTHING has to become a freakin' debate. of course EVERYTHING can be debated and some folks here choose to debate religion. that is okay, right? right? please tell me i'm right. |
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
mykesorrel
on
Wed 07/20/11 03:14 AM
|
|
How do I know? Simple, I USE MY HEAD. If my head cannot justify something no matter how hard I try, it simply cannot be true. That's about the easiest way to put it. Logically speaking things in religion simply don't add up. I'm not gonna try to make them add up if I can't. hey, you may be just the person i've been looking to talk to. you see, i've had a new hobby since i retired which involves the study of quantum mechanics. now i'm convinced that there must be something to this new science discipline but as hard as I USE MY HEAD, i cannot seem to grasp much understanding of the crap. and yet, unlike you, although i can't work it all out in my head, i still think that the science is JUSTIFIED. i find what my austrailian mate, a university professor teaching this science to phd undergrads, is telling me must make some sense and think the science is JUSTIFIED as it is leading us, or i should say folks in the profession like him, to a greater understanding of the universe. he says things like, "trust me, john. for now just grasp what i say about the basic principles as being correct. you'll understand why as we go along, but for now if you cannot accept these basic principles you'll never grasp quantum phyics." i listen to him because i think there is something to this stuff even though i cannot yet understand it. much of it at any rate. point being, i'd put my ability to "USE MY HEAD" up against your's, his or anybody else's on the planet. don't know your thinking on quantum physics but whether or not you've studied the discipline maybe you can help me out here. you say that if your "head cannot justify something no matter how hard [you] try, it simply cannot be true." well i want to KNOW stuff like you KNOW stuff. is there any TRUTH to this quantum stuff? if YOU cannot justify the crap in YOUR HEAD no matter how hard you've tried, "it simply cannot be true" right? i should find a new hobby, right? or if you have made use of your head and have justified it perhaps you'll sit in with me and my phd mate from austrailia next time we're online together and help the poor sucker out getting through my thick skull. actually he says the crap will likely never be fully KNOWN so perhaps you might help him out too. i'm sure he dosn't like chasing his tail in life and would appreciate KNOWING that if YOU can't figure it out in YOUR head "it simply cannot be true" and he can quit wasting his time and retire and go fishing like me. yes, i do have other hobbies that are not unlike chasing my tail. What people like you fail to realize is that quantum mechanics is testable in a lab not sure who's post you're referring to but people like me realized damn well that quantum mechanics is testable in a lab. Point being is, that people often say "you can grasp knowledge of x, y, and z so God must exist or how do you know God doesn't exist?" isn't the same as "i know this exists and here is the evidence", whether you(when i say you i mean any person for that matter) want to reject that evidence or not is up to you, very similar to God(s) of that gaps argument. I'm not even suggesting that's what you're implying, but it seems like that of what you might be implying in a way. It is up to no one to say "ha! I KNOW god doesn't exist", it's up to the person proclaiming it to show evidence, as I'm sure you already know. If that's not what you was implying, i apologize for assuming. And as i take it you have took an interest in science, i'm pretty sure you understand its beauty, maybe I'm reading what you wrote differently (maybe you can elaborate more). As you can see i disagreed with this quote: "head cannot justify something no matter how hard [you] try, it simply *cannot* be true." Cannot is an absolutism, this is why i disagree. actually, NOTHING has to become a freakin' debate. of course EVERYTHING can be debated and some folks here choose to debate religion. that is okay, right? right? please tell me i'm right. And you're absolutely right. :) |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"head cannot justify something no matter how hard [you] try, it simply *cannot* be true." Cannot is an absolutism, this is why i disagree. then you disagree with, as i do, the person whom I WAS QUOTING. no worries but it's people like him not people like me i think you disagree with. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
jrbogie
on
Wed 07/20/11 03:31 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"head cannot justify something no matter how hard [you] try, it simply *cannot* be true." Cannot is an absolutism, this is why i disagree. then you disagree with, as i do, the person whom I WAS QUOTING. no worries but it's people like him not people like me i think you disagree with. Cool, apologies and thanks for clarifying. I was like "i hope this wise fellow is not suggestion what i think he is", then i read it again like "oops, maybe not". 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
jrbogie
on
Wed 07/20/11 03:43 AM
|
|
i apologize for assuming. And as i take it you have took an interest in science, i'm pretty sure you understand its beauty, maybe I'm reading what you wrote differently (maybe you can elaborate more). no apology necessary but i took an interest in and found the beauty of science decades be for you were born. suit yourself but if you care to understand my position on the topic you'd do well to re-read some of my posts. perhaps i made a punctuation error or two with quote marks, commas, etc., and i do display sarcasm in replies where i'm funnin' with someone as i was doing with klesto. another hobby of mine kinda/sorta. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"head cannot justify something no matter how hard [you] try, it simply *cannot* be true." Cannot is an absolutism, this is why i disagree. then you disagree with, as i do, the person whom I WAS QUOTING. no worries but it's people like him not people like me i think you disagree with. Cool, apologies and thanks for clarifying. I was like "i hope this wise fellow is not suggestion what i think he is", then i read it again like "oops, maybe not". hahaha. yeah, maybe not, ya think??? no worries. we're on the same page now. i think. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Atheism can mean lack of a god belief, which is different than saying there is absolutely no god....and Agnostic just means "do not know"..... so a person can be an atheist and agnostic. Just because a person does not know what the real truth is about god or no god, doesn't automatically default that Abrahamic Myths are true (like Jesus).
And non-believers make up the third largest belief group in USA... Protestants 51%, Catholics 25%, non-believers 15% or more...... etc… You might think that some faith group must have grown during the last thirty years, and you’d be right: atheists and nonbelievers more than doubled in the eleven years between 1990 and 2001, from 14 million to 29 million: from 8% of the country to 14%. From 2000 to 2005, church attendance fell in all fifty states. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Atheism can mean lack of a god belief, which is different than saying there is absolutely no god....and Agnostic just means "do not know"..... so a person can be an atheist and agnostic. Just because a person does not know what the real truth is about god or no god, doesn't automatically default that Abrahamic Myths are true (like Jesus). And non-believers make up the third largest belief group in USA... Protestants 51%, Catholics 25%, non-believers 15% or more...... etc… You might think that some faith group must have grown during the last thirty years, and you’d be right: atheists and nonbelievers more than doubled in the eleven years between 1990 and 2001, from 14 million to 29 million: from 8% of the country to 14%. From 2000 to 2005, church attendance fell in all fifty states. This. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts lessons arent always learned through whats easy and pleasant and nice,, and life is full of much more than whats easy or pleasant or nice why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 07/20/11 10:24 PM
|
|
why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. lesson one,, life is not promised,, even from birth lesson two, we are mortal in this skin on this earth lesson three, there is one who can offer us immortality in return for simply believing he can,,,, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Edited by
Kleisto
on
Wed 07/20/11 10:41 PM
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. lesson one,, life is not promised,, even from birth lesson two, we are mortal in this skin on this earth lesson three, there is one who can offer us immortality in return for simply believing he can,,,, lesson four, you have free will but you really don't because you can only make one choice and live. lesson five, I can take a baby's life because I'm God but you can't. Great lessons........ 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
why should I expect any realistic book to leave out anything but whats easy or pleasant or nice? I think we should expect more from a so called divine being. Some of the things the Bible God does are NOT divine acts, I don't care how you wanna justify them. If one is gonna claim God is better than we are, then said God damn well better act the part, otherwise it's just a human made to be a God. more of the teenagerish, 1.you arent the way I THINK you should be, so you arent worthy,,,, 2.you dont make sense to 'me' because you dont behave as I think you should and I am pretty brilliant about how you should act,,, No it's called using my head. Simple as that. I don't blindly accept things anymore. I think, I reason, and my logic tells me a God like that is not love. Bottom line. personal logic is subjective,,,as is personal bottom line I dont blindly accept blind questioning or suspicion,,my logic tells me a God like that is JUST as well as loving,,, |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I Can think of hundreds of biblical references to things that most people agree upon, why does it become automatically controversial if the Bible mentions it,, the Bible happens to have plenty of moral value regardless of religious affiliation It's not that good things that are the problem, it's the rest mixed in. Every single religious text is gonna have some truth in it, it would have to to be accepted as true. There is nothing wrong with taking the good parts and applying them to your life as you see fit. However, the problem comes in when you assume that any one book is ENTIRELY true, because then it's not just the good being played up but also the bad. It's those other bad parts that cause all the problems, aka: "My God says that He's gonna do this if you don't believe, My God commands homosexuals must die as they are an abomination, etc etc etc" Reality is, no one single book is all true, and it's this idea that any of them could be that is the root of our problems in society, because they create judgment and division among the people as I illustrated above. We would be far better off, if we'd take strictly the good from these books (such as God is love), and leave the bad behind. have you ever considered that we also can learn 'good' lessons from the 'bad' parts What good lesson can you truly learn from a story in which God is gonna drown little babies who had nothing to do with anything besides existing, or the idea that this God is gonna demand worship or you will cease to live? That's just scare tactics and bullying, to say nothing of evil to the core. If any lessons are to be taken from that, it's how NOT to act. lesson one,, life is not promised,, even from birth lesson two, we are mortal in this skin on this earth lesson three, there is one who can offer us immortality in return for simply believing he can,,,, lesson four, you have free will but you really don't because you can only make one choice and live. free will has nothing to do with living, we die regardless of our choices(in this life) we can have life BEYOND this life ( a bonus) for a very small price on our part I have free will, I used it to decide to write this and so far IM still alive,,,how about that,,, |
|
|
|
|
