Marriage is not the same thing as sex. You can be married and not have sex and you can have sex without being married. If her stance is she thinks it wrong for these people to have sex then she is definitely protesting the wrong thing.


If you can choose to be sexrally attracted to or fall romaticlly in love with someone of the same sex then you are either gay or some variation of bi.


Their behavior is a direct outcome of who they are.


Something else we agree on.


She is not being treated differently for who she is. She is being treated the same as everyone else that is currently a County Clerk and refusing to do her job.


Maybe not but it's not hard to figure out. She is basing all of her protest on religious grounds. She has ever said "Because it's a sin". She has also said she is a christian. According to the christian religion sinners go to hell because they deserve to.


If she did her job she wouldn't have to be unemployed.


Infact Jim crow did affect white people. Granted not nearly as much as it affect black people. White owned businesses were being denied the opportunity to sell to a completely untapped market. Not to mention empathy. Then again, empathy seems to be lacking from this entire conversation.

I'm not going to paste the whole thing because it goes on for 17 pages. However, here is a link to the document so you can read it yourself. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14-556_3204.pdf
On the papers numbers within the document it starts on page 10 but the PDF page is 15.


Yes, and equal protection IS the 14th amendment.


Until someone challenges the state laws that prohibit such a marriage there is no constitutional ruling on it. Therefore, it's not hypocritical.


While the ruling does not allow people in the past to get married (because that would be impossible). It does make marriages legal for people that went to another state or even country to get married. By the way, stripping someone of slave made money would have been as simple as civil lawsuits, but good luck finding a judge that would have ruled in their favor at that time.

The Supreme Court does not make law. They interpret constitutional law. Therefore, there was no change in Kim's job except for the fact she became aware of what the law entailed.

In my state it's only mine as well. However, there are some counties that do not require a clerk signature on a marriage license. Which makes your whole point mute.


You right, believing an action is wrong is not bigotry. However, what she believes to be wrong is who these people are. An action comes with a choice. These people did not choose to be homosexrals. Just as you did not choose to be hetralsexal. All they are asking for is to be treated the same as everyone else. When treating someone differently because of something they did not choose is bigotry.


Oh let's see...Write to government leaders and explain your cause, Stage peaceful protest, organized groups of like minded people, try to use logic and reason to persuade others, start petitions, vote for people that want to use the legal ways of changing laws to implement the changes you would like to see happen. All of these are legal means to accomplish what she is attempting to do by breaking the law.


No, I do not admire them. While I think what they were standing for was good. They should have protested in legal ways. The only time it is acceptable to break a the law is when there is no legal means to protest.


Good, we have something in common.


Bigoted - Treating groups of people differently only because they are different from her.
Hateful - She thinks these people should be put in hell for eternity.
Illogical - Same sex marriages do not affect her in anyway. It only affects the people that are getting married. Therefore, it is illogical for her to oppose it.

Ah but that is not really the case here. What the Supreme Court did was realise that same sex marriage has been legal since the 14th amendment was established back in 1868. Therefore, her job always included signing same sex marriage licenses. Kim's job did not change or get redefined. The only change is that everyone became aware of the fact that part of her job included signing said licenses.

With that view, you wouldn't need to get a license to get married or drive a car. A county clerk issues a marriage license. In some counties the clerk's signature is a required item. Therefor, she is making it legal for the people to get married. Otherwise, it's not a legal marriage. Just like driving a car isn't legal unless you have a valid driver's license.


If this infact true, she doesn't understand how the law works and isn't qualified to be a county clerk in the first place.


Basically, yes.


I cannot admire anyone that treats other people with bigotry. I also cannot admire anyone that breaks the law and oath of office just because they disagree with it. There are many other legal ways to protest what she wrongly conceives to be abnormal and immoral. There is no reason to break the law or refuse to do her job.

You go right on ahead and admire her, but then you should also admire terrorist. No one stands up for what they believe more than terrorist. You should also admire Dylann Roof because he thought shooting up a black church was the right thing to do. You should also admire the KKK because they firmly believe hating everyone that is not white is the right thing to do.

Oh, you don't admire these people? But they really, really are not willing to compromise their values.

My point is, standing up for your beliefs is fine. However, these acts of unyielding conscience can do more harm than good. Especially when the person's beliefs are bigoted, hateful, and completely illogical.

That is only because signing a field trip consent form is in fact giving your consent from someone you are responsible for. It's not the same thing as signing a marriage license. She is not responsible for the people getting married. All she is signing is a document that says it is legal for them to get married. Which it is.

This has nothing to do with religion or what she thinks is right or wrong. This has only has to do with what is legal. You can not be a public servant and violate the law you swore to uphold. Which is exactly what she is doing.

This is basicly the same as when County Clerks we denying marriage licenses to mixed couples. They didn't think with a black person should marry a white person. However, the law said they could. Once again, they either had to follow the law or resign their jobs. History shows, they either did their jobs or got replaced.

The county clerk's office is not the place to make a stand like that anyway. This was a ruling by the Federal supreme court. The only way to really make a stand against them is to make it with the federal government. Therefore, what she is doing makes no sense. She can't change the law from her position, and instead of working with the people that could change the law she is making a media circus and getting her name in the headlines. She want's her 15 minutes. Well, now she's had her time and nothing has changed. Except now people know how much of a bigot she really is.

The law will not change because it is in agreement with 14th Amendment. The only way to change the law is to modify the 14th Amendment. Which, by the way, would also take away women's rights. Are you sure you support her now?

In the US we have equal rights due to the 14th. You change the 14th and we no longer have equal rights. Sure, that would mean same sex marriage could be illegal. However, it also means black people would have no rights, the only people that could own land is white males, and the only people that could vote are land owners. That is what the constitution said before the 14th amendment was added. Why would anyone want to go back to that? Besides some white male landowners that is.

Over all what it comes down to is, if you don't like the law, changed it. Although, the day the US stops having equal rights is the same day I move permanently to another country where they do.

Getting hurt is part of growth, but it's also part of a slow painful death.

I can see where you are coming from. After so many years together why can't they just work it out? Sometimes that simply isn't possible. When staying feel worse than dying. It's time to go.

This is true, though they can be impeached.


Sure, but you always have the option to quit. That would be how you make your stand.


See, that is the thing though. Her job did not change. All she has to do is sign a piece of paper. Just as before. The only thing that changed is the other people signing the paper.


Since her values force her to refuse, the only correct option she has is to step down from the position. Otherwise, she is not only violating the oath she took when she accepted the job, but also the law.

As Jerrod Niemann said in the song Lover, Lover



Sometimes, it's just not worth the pain.

This is from ky.gov


The most important part being

Therefore, she is failing to uphold her oath of office.

This breaks down rather simple. The supreme court ruled banning same sex marriage is against the 14th Amendment of the constitution. Therefore, it is law to allow same sex marriages in every state. It is the job of the County Circuit Court Clerk to issue marriage licences. She was elected as the County Circuit Court Clerk. Now she is refusing to do part of that job. Since she unable to perform the job she has been elected to do (no matter what the reason) then she should step down. Otherwise, she is breaking the law.

When you have a job, you are supposed perform the task required of said job. When you don't perform the required task of a job, you get fired. No one says she has to agree with it.

Everyone is different and expects different things from a relationship. Therefore, there is no such thing as standard.

The only advice that I can give is to discuss it with the other person. Find out where they would like to go next. I have seen relationships fall apart due to lack of communication but I have never seen one fall apart from over communication.

Sitting alone in my self imposed isolation
has me screaming in my frustration.
Feeling my life's desolation
never realizing this was the destination.
Leaving me with nothing but this dictation.
Loneliness as my only foundation
I continue on with my dissertation.
Though it really has become only an obligation.
When I reach out for a little affection
I only seem to get rejection.
Maybe I just need a little vindication
or a little real communication.
I'm not only looking for infatuation
but something with a little more fascination.
Maybe I just need a little less separation.
My happiness is only a fabrication
or at best a dissociation.
This smile I wear is nothing but a falsification.
It's taken to long for me to come to this realization.
It may be too late for modification.
So I sit here in my perfect isolation.

Great, my daughters are so screwed.

I could just see the kids. Monroe's face with Einstein's hair. If that mental image doesn't make you laugh I don't know what will.

In some ways it's living every day like it's your last. Which brings to mind, do what you love to do. Is this really a complicated statement?

I tend to run on the assumption people are generally honest and trustworthy. However, trust takes time. I guess you could say it's prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That sentiment seems to work for life in general really.

I don't think there is a formula to what works and what doesn't. Some people work well with opposites. Others work well with people that have similar views or outlook in life. Most are somewhere in between. An expression that I have heard a few times is, "Do you." What is meant by this is be who you are, and go with what you like. I think this works in this case as well.

While I'm at it I might as well say I'm 6'4" and baseball player.

hmmmm Good question. Oh, yeah, that's right. Because I live in the middle of BFE.

Never mind the fact that I'm a short, chubby, long haired, geek. That probably has nothing to do with it.

Sometimes they are fun to mess with. Just put random words into a message and send it to them. Watch how they respond.