AGAIN< this point of view seems to demand that God be there as 'service' to HUMANS

not a view I share,,,

Of course you're gonna defend your God because you've been trained to no matter what, that's quite evident. Doesn't change the fact that said God FAILED if He couldn't make His creation act as He wanted it to act.



this type of creation is already created by men,, its called a ROBOT

men are a more complex creation,, that you think that makes the creation a failure is unfortunate...

GOd gave us choice, and IM glad, I think that was a perfect choice

without choice we would be walking zombies, without choice we wouldnt most likely feel things like joy or sadness because we would just be running 'as programmed'


choice was part of the perfect creation, not proof of an imperfect one

a watch doesnt have choices because its merely a machine


I truly just cant relate to the need or point of view that humans being capable of bad choices makes the creator imperfect

he made us capable, and he gave us choice

if we make the bad choice, that is not the same as a watch not working, because a watch had no 'choice' and each watch is duplicated with the next watch

we werent manufactured in such a way, we are diverse and constanly upgradable or downgradable based upon our OWN choices,, thats amazing and perfect,,,

in my opinion

I dont think you have children..lol

no offense

protecting our kids from harm doesnt mean making their decision for them,, we can talk to them and advise them best we can, but their decision is still THEIRS to make

my father in heaven is no worse a parent for trying to counsel and be there but still allowing me to make my own decision,,,

That is wrong too.

Police have authority to do many things that citizens do not. IF an officer stops or approaches you, it is clear they are an officer and their authority and weapon status and legitimacy are a given. Their position puts them in a unique position where threat is a regular and a constant so they can , unfortunately, usually pull the fear of physical threat card even if they THOUGHT an unarmed perosn was armed.


A citizen approaching you, however, with a gun does not have any clear authority or assumed legitimate reason for having a gun and would be not within their right to shoot another citizen because they dont have the same level of authority to confront a citizen with a weapon on their person.




But this man is not a police officer. Had not identifying marks or badge that someone would think he was a police officer with that authority. Trying the case in the media is how all high profile cases are tried, thats a fact of life.

IN this case, I think bringing it the attention that it would otherwise not have been given is just and morally conscious and not wrong at all.

THere is no evidence of race being involved, except possible racial slurs. But racism is not the crime. The potential crime that needs to be investigated is whether this man HUNTED , CONFRONTED, and then SHOT this young man who was breaking no laws and had no weapon. Race may play a part in why the man saw him as so 'suspicious' though, but thats not something anyone could prove.

The boys age is at issue because he was unarmed and being followed by a grown man with a GUN. 17 year olds in most other cases arent repeatedly called 'men'. Juniors in high school arent yet 'men' or 'women'. Men hold jobs and can legally have weapons. This was a boy in school , volunteering four days a week, with no weapon, visiting family friends.

When young men have to fear being hunted down , its an issue.

I dont think its ******** at all when a child is shot by a grown man, teen or not, with very little further investigation beyond the word of the shooter and ONE witness out of SEVERAL.

I think people need to speak up so cases like this arent just brushed off without the examination they deserve. AT the very least, I want to see a negligent homicide charge INVESTIGATED because the man had a weapon which he used to shoot a boy who had no weapon.

I dont even think that a chief and prosecutor should have made that call so soon with so little and short of an investigation and with a presumed stand on the night that it was self defense.

These are times Im happy for those like Al or Jesse to draw attention when someones child is shot and they are told it was merely self defense because the shooter says so and ONE witness claims to have seen someone with a red sweater (Was that even what zimmerman was wearing, I know it was red,,,)

A childs death deserves more attention and investigation than that.

not in stand your ground states,,,,lol

reasonable force is no concern as long as someone can point to some POSSIBILITY they were going to be 'harmed'


you harm me, I can take your life,,,,,no fairness there

your choice to limit God is the major source of the confusion

I dont place mortal limits on an immortal creator,, so I dont demand his choices or his actions live up to 'my' ideas of right and wrong



we are HIS Creation,, to create however he chose

we can feel like he made mistakes or not,, but our knowledge next to his is far too limited to consider ourself a valid source to judge the CREATOR by

just like when I was a mortal child, many things my parents did just didnt make sense and some didnt seem fair, until I gained the experience and knowledge to see what the long term intent and effects were

I view my creator with hundred times more knowledge than my parents and have the same faith in HIS KNOWLEDGE and HIS INTENTIONS with choices , whether they seem fair at the time or not to my mortal flesh


thats just my opinion though


,,,others may continue to ask why he didnt just make it easy on everyone , create them, make sure they were happy, and give them everlasting life


and they will probably never get the answers that will be good enough or valid enough,,,

that presumes Gods knowledge is dependent upon ours,

which is backwards to what christians like me believe

death of the mortal flesh is a given to deliver from the spiritual sickness of sin

eternal life is ours for the asking if we wish to live beyond the years of our mortal flesh

DEATH is a GIVEN,,,the body expiring is a GIVEN

not a punishment

I guess that leaves me out of alot of conversations then,,,plenty of things I have CHOSEN not to experience,,,,

including disbelief in what makes sense to me and works for me,,,,

oh my GOODNESS,,,

ME TOO!


if I had more money, I would go at least one weekend a month,, just to pamper myself and have peace and quiet,,,,and I live in vegas so there are cool casino/hotels to pick from , plus live shows, movies, etc,,,,



I wondered how many others do that,,this is a cool thread

religions share similar tenets, so Im not sure about the putting one 'thing' above others

ITs like we believe women should have equal rights, so we tend to be in agreement with other governments who stand for that particular value

its not that we are putting up our 'way' as superior, so much as we are thinking EQUALITY is healthier

the same is true with religion. People blame christianity for all these bad things, for instance, while arguing that religion does not have ownership of morals

it cant be both ways,,,,,,if religion doesnt own the morals, than how can it blamed for them when we disagree with those morals?

the lessons of the christian bible are similar to lessons and values in other books, and if people think they are 'right' they think they are right on their virtue, not MERELY because of the book but because they AGREED with the book and would agree with any book that held those similar values within it,,,

really? thats an interesting opinion,

like medicine

some people have a spiritual system that is able to take the words of the bible for the good it provides

others systems are too poisoned, and their system rejects those very words or have very bad reactions to it


I dont know why it is so,,,but the bible is complex and everyone will not get the same thing from it,, everyone will not be able to benefit from it,and some may even have a predisposition (environmental) to be harmed (emotionally) by it,,,,


we debate in circles what the words 'mean' because we arent all able to receive the same messages or have the same perception/interpretation

yes. I read that another WITNESS who called in that night actually stated the guy on top had a 'white t shirt'

hard to confuse a grey hoody with a white t shirt, even in the dark,,,but a shirt could be confused with a white t shirt, not sure what Z was wearing


the young man now saying the guy on the bottom wore red did not say that at the time of the 911 call which his SISTER actually made (not him) he just said the following

": "I saw a man laying on the ground screaming who needed help. I was going to go over there to try and help him, but my dog got off the leash, and I ran and got him, and I hurried around and down, and the screaming stopped."


this doesnt even imply there was a second man at all, at least not at the time of the incident when the young man ORIGINALLY gave his account,,,,,


but, perhaps, the autopsy would shed light

it would be interesting to understand how a man of his size couldnt flip over a 160 pound boy after such a close confrontation would obviously leave the boy laying face down on top of him

(the boy was found laying face down)

it may be the boy was shot in the back, explaining why he fell on his front

or he could have been shot in the front, with the Man carefully sliding out beneath him but I would consider that weird in such a high adrenaline situation....

I also find it curious that officers dont mention whether they see an exit or an entry wound in the boys back, which also seems like it would be obvious with a shot made within that close a proximity,,,,

plenty of things to suspect here,,hopefully it will start pieceing together and being more consistent than its been,,,

this is a logical point of view from the perspective of life that is singular and of the highest priority


the logical point of view from the perspective of christians like myself though, is that there is EVERLASTING life, so the loss of the mortal life is not the worst thing the CREATOR of life can do as the CREATOR controls what life is in the first place and can give everlasting life after our flesh has expired,,,

\



no, but the

level of happiness = level of harmlessness

is as detrimental a philosophy for parents as any other,,,

children can have passions for unhealthy habits

smoking, drinking, sex, , and if I can back up my 'morals' with real life logic based upon what I have observed and read

determining said passions as unhealthy is also a reason for me to guide them away from them,,,

It becomes more about you and what you want for them than what they might want.



just regarding PARENTHOOD

IT is not SUPPOSED to be as simple as what they 'want'

their relative inexperience and lack of knowledge makes them a poor judge of how to achieve what they 'want' ,


parenthood is about leading your children in a healthy path, regardless of what their juvenile minds may impulsively think they 'want'

sometimes they will want healthy things and sometimes they wont, as a parent, its my job to guide my kids in the healthy direction and steer them away from the unhealthy and potentially detrimental choices their impulsive flesh may lead them towards,,,

shame

why try to imply he was a big guy?

Im sorry. The police report doesnt even pan out your conclusion. It actually says the boy is 6 3 and 160 pounds
schoolmates called him 'slim' , my son is a slim 6 4 and 175 pounds

6 2 and 200 probably wouldnt garner that nickname


search online, the picture has been updated, and he doesnt look much different,,,(although I can note I have found no mention of how 'old' either picture is so they may BOTH be recent)


and a junior in high school is not an adult, unless he is the exceptional emancipated teenager,,

people are reaching for reasont to justify this man,, from why the boy may have been suspended to whether he just happened to be a very strong boy,,,,but in the end its all just excuses

the boy didnt need to be shot,, it was senseless...

this just proves there was a scuffle, there is no dispute about this


during a scuffle, both parties can at times be on top,,,,,



note that this particular witness says the red sweater was on the bottom, even though other witnesses say flashlights were there because it was so dark (hard to notice red in that kind of dark)

I dont know what Z was wearing or where it is posted but I do recall another witness stating to 911 the guy on top had on a WHITE Tshirt that may have had something on it (again, hard to discern color or patterns in the dark),, BUT it is hard to confuse a grey hoody for a white tshirt with possible markings,,,,