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Topic:
The proof is in the pudding
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notbeold 9:44 AM Wikipedia is my best friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astronomy Goto subsection Mesopotamia. Yeah, it's amazing what one can accomplish with a little bit of holding your tongue just the right way. Can't remember the source right now, but read that the Mayans calculated pi to the fifth decimal point 1500 years ago. Love boats too. Live on ocean front. Almost bought a ferro-cement 37 ft. sailboat last year. But ya know what they say: might as well dump buckets of money into the chuck.—IM IMFrisson, In these forums URLs with HTTPS break. When posting a URL code, delete the 'S' from HTTPS and the link will work most times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astronomy Yields "Page Not Found" because of the S http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astronomy Remove the "S" and the link works... Yer Welcome... Edit to note that the "S" in IMG code works and does not need to be deleted. re-edited—IM |
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Topic:
The proof is in the pudding
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Thx. I shoulda checked it before walking away from it. I guess I have to correct it on the other thread now. Ta—IM
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From IMFrisson What bothers me about many Christian apologists is the arrogance they display, as if the Scriptures amalgamated into the Vulgate in the 5th century was the last and definitive word on Truth. The NT manuscripts I use are older than the Vulgate. The Ten Commandments is a rewrite of the Code of Hammurabihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi I am not sure how anyone can determine that since no one can determine when God spoke to Adam. All predate Christianity by at least 2,000 years. Christianity is based on Judaism. But who cares which ones are older? Perhaps there is another explanation as to why some of these religions repeat the same info. Maybe they shared some of this stuff with each other because they all knew it was true. Let's see. Who knows what happened thousands of years ago? Were any of us there? I am not sure how anyone can determine that since no one can determine when God spoke to Adam. Er, Ten Commandments, Moses, on the mountain, remember? Not Adam Perhaps there is another explanation as to why some of these religions repeat the same info. Maybe they shared some of this stuff with each other because they all knew it was true. Well, give credit where credit is due. Quoting verses out of context and written hundreds of years apart, edited and rewritten by who knows, and applying them to current time does not do justice to the text. Check my sources. You will see the carbon-dated steles. Were you to cite texts from other religions and cultures pointing out common universal Truths, we'd be a lot further along the road toward common understanding instead of this mindless bickering about Christianity being the one and only truth.—IM |
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Topic:
The proof is in the pudding
Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Sun 06/03/18 12:54 PM
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notbeold 9:44 AM
Wikipedia is my best friend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_astronomy Goto subsection Mesopotamia. Yeah, it's amazing what one can accomplish with a little bit of holding your tongue just the right way. Can't remember the source right now, but read that the Mayans calculated pi to the fifth decimal point 1500 years ago. Love boats too. Live on ocean front. Almost bought a ferro-cement 37 ft. sailboat last year. But ya know what they say: might as well dump buckets of money into the chuck.—IM |
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Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Sun 06/03/18 01:07 PM
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What bothers me about many Christian apologists is the arrogance they display, as if the Scriptures amalgamated into the Vulgate in the 5th century was the last and definitive word on Truth. Consider: The concept of free will originated with Zoroaster.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster The Ten Commandments is a rewrite of the Code of Hammurabihttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi The Virgin birth of a god was depicted by Isis' birth of Horus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus -All predate Christianity by at least 2,000 years. A clue might be Moses (reputedly the original author of the first five books of the Old Testament (the Torah)) who spent his early years in Egypt where he had access to the Library of Alexandria, THE repository of knowledge of the known world at the time. Ditto Christ, who spent his early years in Egypt, where he astounded the scholars, remember? As for the text being the Word of God, it has been well established that there were at least three major rewrites of portions of the OT by scribes who did the best they could during the Jewish Exile in Babylon.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible Multiple authorship of some of the Gospels has also been established. Many other texts available to the early Christian Church didn't make it into the Vulgate. Why not? Because the head honchos at the time deemed it otherwise. Check out Pope DamasusI's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Damasus_I record of how he won the office and decide if this is the type of person you would have wanted handling your sacred texts. There are many religions. All have their value. Study them all with a grain of salt to make them palatable and hopefully, you'll form a grain of Truth to carry you through life. NOTE: Just foolin' around with one of my old posts practicing the coding Tom so generously clued me onto.—IM |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
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KO thx
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Sat 06/02/18 04:01 PM
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I appreciate your point of view. So, as to spin direction, any further thoughts, or have you dismissed that? The reason I press on is I read (learned) that sub-atomic particles each have unique spin (up/down,clockwise, counter clockwise, diagonal, yada), which in turn then, define elements. I'm not talking about fields, like the Higgs. I read about one collision experiment where the SAP went off the area of observance with a particular spin and re-entered with a different spin. Also, the effects at a distance, where, at the quantum level, a change in the state of one particle affects another for no observable reason. Perhaps you have a POV. These things interest me 'cause, like chaos theory, they lead to an understanding that, despite the most rigorous validation, the nature of the universe includes randomness, i.e. the metaphorical poke in the eye with a sharp stick. So God really does play dice.—IM No sir, God does not really play the dice whatsoever. BlakeIAM: You sure? Never snuck out through a wormhole to another universe and bet a few buckazoids, let his hair down, chill?—IM |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
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Yeah, well:
'The Faddeev–Popov ghosts violate the spin-statistics relation, which is another reason why they are often regarded as "non-physical" particles.' I have a hard enough time with the physical. Again, thanks for the nice image capture. Maybe sometime you can message me through my profile how you accomplish that. I tried <b>,</b> and <i>, </i> in my previous post just to do basic bold and italics and it didn't work. I am a neophyte at html. OR are you snipping? OR copy to clipboard and paste?? Send up to a dropbox and pull it back down??? later...IM |
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Topic:
The proof is in the pudding
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notbeold,
'Imagine trying to do modern maths with roman numerals, I think I would go (or become more) insane, or go epileptic looking at all the capital letters needed even for simple equations. There would be few short cuts to take, everything would have to be carefully read and thought out and checked and transcribed.' I had a job site super once who didn't know how to compute the diagonal of what was in a sense, a giant rafter spanning a driveway to a condo we were building. After much trial and error doing it his way, I scratched out the math for him on a 2X6. I only got sh***y assignments after that. I like the old Native American philosophy: If it couldn't be handled with moon phases or seasons, it was just, 'a long time'. Yes, it's odd why it took so long for mathematics to take root in Europe. The Persians and Egyptians had been doing it for hundreds, if not, thousands of years. The Chaldeans had star charts calculated to one degree of arc 6,000 years before C.E. That's why Stecchini is so interesting.—IM |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
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I appreciate your point of view.
So, as to spin direction, any further thoughts, or have you dismissed that? The reason I press on is I read (learned) that sub-atomic particles each have unique spin (up/down,clockwise, counter clockwise, diagonal, yada), which in turn then, define elements. I'm not talking about fields, like the Higgs. I read about one collision experiment where the SAP went off the area of observance with a particular spin and re-entered with a different spin. Also, the effects at a distance, where, at the quantum level, a change in the state of one particle affects another for no observable reason. Perhaps you have a POV. These things interest me 'cause, like chaos theory, they lead to an understanding that, despite the most rigorous validation, the nature of the universe includes randomness, i.e. the metaphorical poke in the eye with a sharp stick. So God really does play dice.—IM |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Sat 06/02/18 11:00 AM
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'I do try to find out about things that interest me, when I find out, I try to incorporate those ideas into my reasoning, if they don't work, I dismiss them, even if they are established science right now.'
Sure, I get it. We make it up as we go along. However, there needs to be a mechanism other than outright dismissal. Two (or more) minds are better than one. Collaboration keeps the cobwebs off the social skills, eh? 'If I gain a semblance of order from my reasoning, what does it matter?' I agree. It's a free country, We have the right to believe what we like. But if we want to come to common understandings, some give-and-take has to occur. So if we want to think (believe?) matter can move at c+ or we want to define units in our own way (Enerts, Krynts THE Point, true Absolute Zero as opposed to scientific AZ) to satisfy our thought system, we absolutely have the right to do that. But unsubstantiated, unsupported conclusions are not science. Science is so named because opinions have also been demonstrated to be true by others. Facts are established by common understanding and validation. Thank you for your effort to communicate your reasoning. That's lovely coding there.—IM |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
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Thx for your reply. Wiki 'Spin(Physics)' That way I don't have to copy&paste and ya might think I'm cherrypickin'.
In my venture I ran across ...'even at absolute zero energy exists' and 'superfluidity'. Your 'That force, that preparation for movement is God, for lack of any better word.': To me, one word's as good as another. Phenomena, enigma, force, entity, voodoo, will do too. 'Course, when you're on the edge of things logic breaks down and words fail. And of course, seeing is impossible because it takes approximately 2/10ths of a second (an eon in quantumland)for the optic nerve to transmit anything to the brain. So' we'll just keep spinning our stories, eh? |
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Topic:
An Energy Discussion
Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Fri 06/01/18 12:44 PM
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You're right. Since we can't disprove there is an invisible wizard that created everything in all of our realities, we must accept its existence until proven otherwise. Nothing bad can come from accepting every single idea that gets thrown across our faces. Not sure how this applies? I tend to believe things that make sense to me. At one time in history religion made sense to a lot of people. Religion still makes sense to some, they see it as reasonable. The reason religion has fallen is because people have obtained more reasonable knowledge about the world they live in. For many, religion no longer makes sense. Religion is proof that sometimes things that make sense at one time may not make sense always. Including science in the quest for knowledge. Based on what I have learned from the tests and observations made and documented by science, I find it reasonable that energy is a baseline component of everything in the Universe. Even with that reasonableness, I have no idea why that first particle started to move. What initiated the very first movement that changed the 'frozen' state to set the Universe into motion? Tom, Ah, back to the ether, eh? So much for the accumulated theories in Physics since the Medieval days. Things I like: Einstein's spluttering, "God does not play dice with the universe". -'There is more space between matter than there is matter' Please, anybody, if you know who originally said this, let me know. I have googled it, searched quotation sites to no avail. I'm serious, no joke. -the fact that the 2014 bosun came in at the CERN Collider at 124 Tev, exactly in the middle between a hypothesized singularity universe and a multiverse. And this little UBI (Useless Bit of Information): I was riffing one day, creative writing-wise, on a scenario where, travelling at the speed of light and therefore everything is in suspension, reaching out with a nanobot, grabbing a sub-atomic particle and giving it a spin in another direction. Would that be creation? Being new here, in the past few days, I have developed a modest respect for your skepticism, irreverence and tongue-in-cheek attitude. You are, no doubt, a seeker.—IM |
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Topic:
The proof is in the pudding
Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Fri 06/01/18 10:49 AM
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Old european mathematics had no zero, and also no 10 because of no zero. 123456789, 123456789. Things numerical must have been difficult to work out back then, probably only done by learned scribes and notaries; and also probably top secret unless you were in the guild. You can't put zero in your pocket, but if you do have money or anything valuable in your pockets, government corporations and banks can leave zero in your pockets. You can leave zero but you can not put zero, funny that. Minus zero means nothing, but minus infinity is a conumdrum. If infinity exists and you take it all away, do you have zero, or nothing or void ? Tom I also liked your caveman bob tales. Makes sense, and entertaining. There is a group of 'nuns' called (I think) the sisters of perpetual indulgence, or something like that; sounds like a good place to start our new religion. I'll pray for a sister to indulge with; Obviously not my sister - yuk. We could make effigies of unseeable entities to bamboozle the acolytes. I do like wine, and bread, but they are taken so how about bourbon and steak. And put some whoopee weed in the incenser. Everyone would come whether they believed or not. I'd spare a couple of hours a week at least, to commune with the spirit ! Haleluja !  The big bang just means that 'god'?? should have pulled the choke out a bit more and given it another shot !! You bring up an interesting point re:numbers. You are likely aware then, that Leonardo Bigollo Fibonacci introduced numerals 1-9 to Europe in the 12th century. He obtained them from North Africa who, in turn, obtained them from India.(cf. Secrets of the Great Pyramid, Tomkins, Peter 1971, pg. 192). He is ascribed to have 'created' the Fibonacci series which results in the Golden Mean, or Ratio, or Section. However, the Egyptians (and other earlier civilizations) used the Ratio in their architecture and mathematics. So, presumably, he was just stating known facts. The above mentioned book also features an 105 pg. appendix (Notes on the Relation of Ancient Measures to the Great Pyramid) by Livius Catullo Stecchini which is a most interesting read, opening many doors of understanding the Ancients' viewpoint of science, specifically, cosmology and concomitantly, religion.—IM |
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Thanks
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What bothers me about many Christian apologists is the arrogance they display, as if the Scriptures amalgamated into the Vulgate in the 5th century was the last and definitive word on Truth.
Consider: The concept of free will originated with Zoroaster. The Ten Commandments is a rewrite of the Code of Hammurabi The Virgin birth of a god was depicted by Isis' birth of Horus -All predate Christianity by at least 2,000 years. A clue might be Moses (reputedly the original author of the first five books of the Old Testament (the Torah)) who spent his early years in Egypt where he had access to the Library of Alexandria, THE repository of knowledge of the known world at the time. Ditto Christ, who spent his early years in Egypt, where he astounded the scholars, remember? As for the text being the Word of God, it has been established that there were at least three major rewrites of portions of the Torah by scribes who did the best they could during the Jewish Diaspora in Babylon. Multiple authorship of some of the Gospels has been established as well. There were many other texts available to the early Christian Church that didn't make it into the Vulgate. Why not? Because the head honchos at the time deemed it otherwise. Check out Pope Damasus' record of how he won the office and decide if this is the type of person you would want handling your sacred texts. There are many religions. All have their value. Study them all with a grain of salt to make them palatable and hopefully, you'll form a grain of Truth to carry you through life. |
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kic
Maybe you can help me out. When I press 'quote', I only see in the message box my original message and not your reply. How do I only make it show your reply? Then, I've noticed that in a string of quotes, it is impossible to determine the author of each quote unless I scroll back through the posts to find the originator. Am I missing a keystroke procedure here or is that just the way it is? |
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Edited by
IMFrisson
on
Thu 05/31/18 01:34 PM
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Kic
Your post of 11:19, I was replying to R2D2. Probably my fault. I am new and haven't quite got the hang of quoting the post I am replying to. I am aware of Portable Data Files. I use them to upload some of my writing, among other things. I agree the cost of prescription medications is through the roof in the US. However, compare the cost New Zealanders and Canadians pay where bulk purchasing by a government agency reduces costs. I know this may sound as too much socialization for many Americans, but if the choice is going bankrupt either due to prescription costs or insurance premiums, or dying, I would choose socialized medicine. Corporations do mergers and acquisitions all the time to achieve economy of scale, so why not individuals banding together to achieve same? |
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Yes, I saw it, for about the fourth time. One of my faves. And it is just that: a movie; created and marketed to make money; it's not real life, get it? So we can't make overarching suppositions such as: the entire medical profession is devious, out to get us, only in it for the money, yada yada.
Are some quacks? Definitely. Just as in any other enterprise, there will always be abusers, charlatans, fraudsters and thieves. It's our job to do due diligence, get all the knowledge we can before making decisions. |
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R2D2...
I don't understand your point. If one scan was of a 'normal' brain and the other was of a brain on psychotropics, shouldn't they have been similar since, the psychotropics were meant to bring the brain back to a state of 'normalcy'? The 100 years bit: So, just because some disease has been studied for great lengths of time makes the effort/disease bogus? We've been studying cancer for about the same length of time. Does that make cancer bogus? The point is we've been making great strides in understanding and treatment in all medical fields and will continue to do so. Consider that polio has been virtually eradicated from the planet; leukemia and other cancers have been cured by piggybacking a drug on the back of viruses that attack T cells. Schizophrenia is a complex dynamic; the brain, more so. With newer and more powerful tools for research, i.e. supercomputers and more powerful microscopes, more progress will be made. Maybe one day, that Doc McCoy cure-all wand will be a reality. Until then, hang in there buddy, keep an even keel; do your due diligence in checking out potential healers. And when they show you MRI scans of brains, get a knowledgeable professional to give you a second opinion before accepting any diagnosis/treatment. |
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