There seem to really only be three possibilities for our existence.

1. The first one is commonly called “Atheism”.

This is the belief that the whole thing was some kind of random accident. Our true nature is that we are nothing more than bags of atoms that accidentally became sentient and our ability to be sentient will cease to exist when we die.

To put this in more philosophical terms,… We are nothing more than the form we are presently taking.

2. The second one is commonly called “Pantheism”

This is the belief that we are the creator. We create the universe as we go along. Our true nature is that we are the thing we want to call “God”. We are the ‘spirit’ of the universe and when our bodies die we will continue to be the spirit of the universe. We were always the spirit of the universe even before our bodies were born. We are eternal beings.

To put this in more philosophical terms,… We are not the form, but the we are the thing that is taking the form.

3. The third possibility is that there is some kind of external deity involved.

This would cover all of the deity-depended religions.

This is the belief that an external deity created the universe like a giant terrarium. Then it created us and placed us in the terrarium. We did not exist before we were born. We come into being when we are born, yet we are also given a spirit (or soul) that was created at the same time as our body. When our body dies our spirit may or may not live on, depending on what we have decided to believe. If it does live on, it may be punished or rewarded depending on whether it was naughty or nice.

To put this in more philosophical terms,… We are newly born pets belonging an external deity who will have absolute and final say over anything that might happen to us for all of time. {some religions may vary on the precise expectations of the deity(s) involved}

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These seem to all there is. Solipsism would fall in as a limited case of Pantheism.

What else is there? Are their any other religions or philosophies that don’t fall into one of the above categories? I’m giving #3 a wide birth here for any philosophy or religion that has an external deity no matter what its demands or requirements might be.

To summarize,….

Number One: There is no conscious creator. It’s all just happenstance.

Number Two: Tag – You’re it!

Number Three: We’re the caged pets of an external deity that needs to be appeased.

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Which do you think is mostly likely?

Door number three is as close to where I am am as you will allow by your caveats, Abra.

I am a good dog. woof.

None. So, what does that make me?

I know a lot of people aren't going to like my description of that door. But what can I do? It's basically the truth. They just might not like the way it's worded.

But even a totally benevolent entity is still basically raising pets in that scenario. What else can I say?

I don't know. You'd have to describe what you think didn't fit?

Just as a thought, if your scenario has to do with aliens from outter space putting us here, then you still have to explain where they originated from, so you haven't really answered the question until you do that.

Otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing your theory that doesn't fit in one of the above scenarios?

There are more than 3 possibilites

Spit em out. I'm all eyes.

I sure hope you won't end up being my pet Abra.

worse could happen

brevity, my friend

There are times when Atheism has a certain appeal to it.

There are many belief systems. far more than 3. you people seem to be hung up on labels.

well, agnostic for example. then what is to prevent there from being some beings who are part of the pantheistic view - little self centered to think that we are all alone give the size of the universe. how about a god who paints his self-portrait in growing inks...them moves on to allow his Dorian Gray to have his own trajectory in this life - but who has the ability to come back and touch up this masterpiece at any time - add a little scenery you know - maybe a lap cat or something.

nice try though

by your discriptions I would fall into category #3

I am not offended by the way you worded it. I struggle with the religion that I was raised with. I'm a much more spiritual person... but yes I believe in God. I do have problems believing that God punishes or rewards the spirit depending on how it behaves. I believe God rewards if we are truely sorry for our sins and ask for forgiveness. Even that gets hard for me to understand at times.

Good post I look forward to reading everyones responses.

I'm thinking more abstractly.

It boils down to the following doesn’t it?

1. There is no creator
2. We are the creator(s)
3. The creator is a separate entity from us

What other options are there?

I can’t think of a belief system that doesn’t fall into one of three 3 categories.

Even agnostic just means that you don’t know which of the three might be true.

I’m not trying to ‘box’ religions in. However, in another thread people were talking about premises, and logic, and people are often interested in pondering what the hell is going on. So I think from the standpoint of premises these are the basic three premises we have to work with. It isn’t likely that all three of them are true. So it must be one of the three.

Not meant to put religions in a box, but wouldn’t they all basically reduce to one of the three scenarios above?

If you can think of a specific belief system that suggests something other than these three scenarios I’d be interested in hearing what it is. We can add it to the list. I can’t imagine what it would be though. Almost anything you come up with is going to be reducible to one of these three basics ideas.

In truth I genuinely have to say that I'm agnostic. Meaning I have no clue which might be true. However, having said that, if I had to place a bet I'd bet on #2.

If your going to put options out there...at least give the same respect to all three doors......and even with your lame description of door #3......

That is my choice...tyvm

There is something greater which is unknown...

No words can describe...

That which is defined is contained within those boundaries...

That which words can describe is not the true way...

Names remove value...

Taoism...

Well, let’s face it Feral. If there is an all-powerful supreme being who created lesser creatures to serve under it, then it really does come down to the fact that we are pets of this superior deity.

That’s just a fact. If you find that to be disrespectful then you must view the whole scenario to be lacking respect.

We're not it.

It's not it.

There are no words to describe it.

I don't want to talk about it.



This just sounds like an agnostic in denial.

Honestly James...

Taoist thought is intended to not remove value from the unknown by attempting to contain it with words and/or descriptions...

Definitions create boundaries... the unknown has no such boundaries, it is why it is unknown...

Perhaps Quantum Mechanics is unveiling some of that which had been previously misdiagnosed by our empirical knowledge...

The Tao means The Way in common translations...

That is the only description provided in that thought, only because there must be a reference point...

It is a focus upon the opposites which must exist in our reality...

It is the conscious effort to see things from all sides while not containing the unknown...

It is a mind opening thought process....

It is the complete acceptance of our inability to know everything...

It is the acceptence that it is ok to not know...

It is the complete and total de-personification of that which is not known...

Well at least ya got me to stop crying.....we are not pets.....We serve with him......he is our Father......Thanks for being abra and making me laugh.