something of interest:


It is important to recognize the relationship of all this to the very obvious astronomical symbolism in the text. The word St. John uses for sign was the term used in the ancient world to describe the constellations of the Zodiac; St. John’s model for this vision of the Church is the constellation of Virgo, which does have a “crown” of twelve stars.8 It seems likely that the THE HOLY WAR 12:1-2 twelve stars also represent the twelve signs of the Zodiac, from ancient times regarded as symbols of the twelve tribes of Israel; in Joseph’s famous dream his father, mother, and the twelve tribes were symbolized by the sun, the moon, and twelve stars or constellations (Gen. 37:9).9 We have already seen how the divine arrangement of Israel’s tribes around the Tabernacle (Num. 2) corresponded to the zodiacal order of the constellations. 10 The Seventh Trumpet of 11:15 brought us to Rosh Hashanah: the Day of Trumpets, the first day of the seventh month, the first day of the new year, the Day of the enthronement of the King of kings in the New Creation. The statement that Virgo is “crowned” with the twelve constellations, therefore, “means that she is the one among the twelve who reigns at the time,” i.e. during the seventh month, just as “the Scorpion’s claws seem about to catch the Virgin.”

11 In terms of astral symbolism, therefore, the birth of the Messiah takes place on the Day of Trumpets. It is interesting that by pursuing several lines of very con- vincing evidence, Prof. Ernest Martin carefully and painstak- ingly narrows down the probable date of Christ’s birth to sometime in September, 3 B.C. 12 Martin then adds the icing to the cake: “In the period of Christ’s birth, the Sun entered the head-position of the Woman about August 13, and exited from her feet about October 2.

But the Apostle John saw the scene when the Sun ‘clothes’ or ‘adorns’ the Woman. This surely indi- cates that the position of the Sun in the vision was located some- where mid-bodied of the Woman — between the neck and knees. (The sun could hardly be said to ‘clothe’ the Woman if it were situated in her face or near her feet.) “The only time in the year that the Sun could be in a position to ‘clothe’ this celestial Woman (to be mid-bodied) is when it was located between about 150 and 170 degrees along the ecliptic. This ‘clothing’ of the Woman by the Sun occurs for a 20-day period each year.

This 20-degree spread could indicate the general time when Christ was born. In 3 B. C., the Sun would have entered this celestial region about August 27 and exited from it about September 15. If John in the Book of Revelation is associating the birth of Christ with the period when the Sun is mid-bodied to the Woman, then Christ would have had to be born within that 20-day period. From the point of view of the Magi (who were astrologers), this would have been the only log- ical sign under which the Jewish Messiah might be born — especially if he were to be born of a virgin. Even today, astrologers recognize that the sign of Virgo is the one which has reference to a messianic world ruler to be born of a virgin. . . .

“But there is a way to arrive at a much closer time for Christ’s birth than a simple 20-day period. The position of the Moon in John’s vision could pinpoint the nativity to within a day – perhaps to an hour period or less. This may seem absurd, but it is entirely possible. “The key is the Moon. The apostle said it was located ‘under her feet.’ What does the word ‘under’ signify in this case? Does it mean the Woman of the vision was standing on the Moon when John observed it or does it mean her feet were positioned slightly above the Moon? John does not tell us.

This, however, is not of major consequence in using the Moon to answer our question because it would only involve the difference of a degree or two. Since the feet of Virgo the Virgin represent the last 7 degrees of the constellation (in the time of Christ this would have been between about 180 and 187 degrees along the ecliptic), the Moon has to be positioned somewhere under that 7-degree arc.

But the Moon also has to be in that exact location when the Sun is mid- bodied to Virgo. In the year 3 B. C., these two factors came to precise agreement for less than two hours, as observed from Palestine or Patmos, on September 11. The relationship began about 6:15 P.M. (sunset), and lasted until around 7:45 P.M. (moonset).

This is the only day in the whole year that this could have taken place. An added bonus: Sundown on September 11, 3 B. C., was the beginning of Tishri 1 in the Jewish calendar – Rosh Hashanah, the Day of Trumpets! 14 Martin summarizes: “The central theme of the Day of Trumpets is clearly that of enthronement of the great King of kings.

This was the general understanding of the day in early Judaism – and it certainly is that of the New Testament. In Revelation 11:15 the seventh angel sounds his ‘last trump’ and the kingdoms of this world become those of Christ. This happens at a time when a woman is seen in heaven with twelve stars around her head and the Sun mid-bodied to her, with the Moon under her feet. This is clearly a New Moon scene for the Day of Trumpets.”.

SO HAPPY [belated] BIRTHDAY JESUS - SEPT. 11th, 3 BC

sorry i didn't know this sooner - am i forgiven? -

hmmm?? interesting the date huh?

9-11

Dude,

Sometimes you scare me.

See above...

I mean that with the greatest respect.

What's up Tribo?

Interesting topic, at this time, I always felt that Jesus was concieved around Christmas and born on or around the end of September.

later, have to go get an inspection sticker on my car

What's scary is all this info i posted is by and or from "christian sources" not pagan.

Tribo...

You truly are a great gatherer.

why thnx my lady -

Thanks tribo!

yOUR WELCOME ARK.

I nominate tribo for president, any seconds?

WHY I SAID IT'S INTERESTING WAS THAT MANY c'S THINK ASTROLOGY IN THIS SENSE ID NON-CHRISTIAN.

EVIDENTALLY NOT ALL THOUGH -

De Nada, Chico

muy bien, senorita,