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Topic: Does a atom stay
smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Thu 12/18/08 07:49 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible?

TaurusByNature Joined Sat 12/13/08 Posts: 1	Thu 12/18/08 07:58 PM
The real question is, what do you define as its "life"? Would it still be the same atom if one piece were tossed to the winds? If one change in the atom redefines it entirely, then yes, obviously, an atom (or anything else) is the same until it is unidentifiable to itself. If you're asking if the unity of the nuclear bonds is forever, I'm afraid that it, too, is subject to the eternally shifting forces of fusion and fission. It doesn't quite "go" anywhere as a unit, it just rejoins the universal flow of matter of energy. But then, that's the kind of things physicists say at funerals all the time.

rlynne Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 2458	Thu 12/18/08 08:00 PM
it will eventually die or at least be modified into a different atom at some point, like reincarnation on an atomic level, lol. I don't think we know enough about it yet though really

rlynne Joined Sun 11/23/08 Posts: 2458	Thu 12/18/08 08:03 PM
The real question is, what do you define as its "life"? Would it still be the same atom if one piece were tossed to the winds? If one change in the atom redefines it entirely, then yes, obviously, an atom (or anything else) is the same until it is unidentifiable to itself. If you're asking if the unity of the nuclear bonds is forever, I'm afraid that it, too, is subject to the eternally shifting forces of fusion and fission. It doesn't quite "go" anywhere as a unit, it just rejoins the universal flow of matter of energy. But then, that's the kind of things physicists say at funerals all the time. keep talking this is fun to read

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 12/19/08 02:30 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? What kind of atoms smiless? Atoms that make up your body? Thats kind of a hard one. Hard structures, such as tooth enamel do not replace themselves. Once teeth have grown I see no way of replacing enamel, so the elements in there are not replaced periodically. It is also accepted that some cells (eg neurons) are not replaced, where as others like red blood cells last around 4 months before being replaced.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Fri 12/19/08 03:48 PM
I am talking about the atom that scientists see in the most powerful microscopes. This one little molecule that has protons, neutrons, and electrons going around a nucleus. I guess the one that we can now split in half to bring fusion or something. I am just curious if it stays stabile at all times or does it change its structure over time. Then I would like to know if there is something even smaller then this atom since it can be split in half. I mean I could probably find information on the internet, but I was hoping to find someone who can actually talk about it in simpler terms as I am no scientist here.

Moondark Joined Tue 11/27/07 Posts: 5866	Fri 12/19/08 03:51 PM Edited by Moondark on Fri 12/19/08 03:52 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? Can it break down and die... not entirely sure But I DO know you can split them! Actually I DO know. Yes atom can decay. The halflife is the amount of time it takes for half of the atoms in a sample to decay. The halflife for a given isotope is always the same ; it doesn't depend on how many atoms you have or on how long they've been sitting around. And yes, I did have to look it up to double check myself. I didn't want to say something I thought was true and find out I was wrong all these years.....

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 12/19/08 03:52 PM
Well atoms that comprise the body like I mentioned do actually break down. Thats why I asked what type of atom you were referring to. I hope that at least helps as far as the body is concerned.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Fri 12/19/08 04:01 PM
Interesting Krimsa. Thank you for your information. I found more about atoms on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom

Krimsa Joined Fri 04/25/08 Posts: 9960	Fri 12/19/08 04:05 PM
Im sure there are good sites. Im just relying on memory and its only from molecular science class back in college which was years ago. We were studying organic materials and molecular science.

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Fri 12/19/08 04:07 PM Edited by SkyHook5652 on Fri 12/19/08 04:09 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? Where's our resident particle physicist (Bushidobillyclub) when we need him? Here's what I know... It is possible to cause an atom to split apart by "shooting" it with another particle. It is similar to throwing a rock at a glass bottle. The bottle breaks apart into pieces. This is what particle accelerators do. Some atoms deteriorate by splitting into pieces naturally. These are what we call "radioactive" atoms. The "splitting apart" is called "fission". When enough of these radioactive atoms get together, the "pieces" from one split shoot off and hit other atoms causing them to split, and the pieces from that one go off and hit other atoms...etc. This is called a "fission reaction" and is what happens inside "atom bombs". Each time an atom "splits", it releases energy. And it is also possible to cause two atoms to fuse together into a new atom. (Two atoms of hydrogen, each having a single proton and a single electron, fuse together to make a single helium atom with two protons and two electrons.) This is called "fusion" and is what happens inside of stars and "hydrogen bombs". Each time two atoms fuse together, they release energy.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Fri 12/19/08 04:09 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? Where's our resident particle physicist (Bushidobillyclub) when we need him? Here's what I know... It is possible to cause an atom to split apart by "shooting" it with another particle. It is similar to throwing a rock at a glass bottle. The bottle breaks apart into pieces. This is what particle accelerators do. Some atoms deteriorate by splitting into pieces naturally. These are what we call "radioactive" atoms. The "splitting apart" is called "fission". When enough of these radioactive atoms get together, the "pieces" from one split shoot off and hit other atoms causing them to split, and the pieces from that one go off and hit other atoms...etc. This is called a "fusion reaction" and is what happens inside "atom bombs". Each time an atom "splits", it releases energy. And it is also possible to cause two atoms to fuse together into a new atom. (Two atoms of hydrogen, each having a single proton and a single electron, fuse together to make a single helium atom with two protons and two electrons.) This is called "fusion" and is what happens inside of stars and "hydrogen bombs". Each time two atoms fuse together, they release energy. Now that is very interesting indeed. Now could you tell me if there is something smaller then a atom or what is inside the atom such as the electron, proton, neutron. Is there a small molecule existing or is that the smallest it can be?

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Fri 12/19/08 04:33 PM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? Where's our resident particle physicist (Bushidobillyclub) when we need him? Here's what I know... It is possible to cause an atom to split apart by "shooting" it with another particle. It is similar to throwing a rock at a glass bottle. The bottle breaks apart into pieces. This is what particle accelerators do. Some atoms deteriorate by splitting into pieces naturally. These are what we call "radioactive" atoms. The "splitting apart" is called "fission". When enough of these radioactive atoms get together, the "pieces" from one split shoot off and hit other atoms causing them to split, and the pieces from that one go off and hit other atoms...etc. This is called a "fusion reaction" and is what happens inside "atom bombs". Each time an atom "splits", it releases energy. And it is also possible to cause two atoms to fuse together into a new atom. (Two atoms of hydrogen, each having a single proton and a single electron, fuse together to make a single helium atom with two protons and two electrons.) This is called "fusion" and is what happens inside of stars and "hydrogen bombs". Each time two atoms fuse together, they release energy. Now that is very interesting indeed. Now could you tell me if there is something smaller then a atom or what is inside the atom such as the electron, proton, neutron. Is there a small molecule existing or is that the smallest it can be? Some defintions are in order here... A molecule is a group of atoms that are "attached" to each other. And example wiould be an molecule of water, which is composed of two hydrogen (H2) and one Oxygen (O) atom. The means by which they stay attached to each other is too length to explain here. Just think of atoms as having "plugs and sockets" that make it easy for some configurations to fit together.) An atom is clasically described as having a group of protons (positive charge) in its center (the nucleus) and an equal number of electrons (negative charge) orbiting around the nucleus. The nucleus of an atom may also have neutrons (neutral charge) at it's center. This is what makes up different "isotopes" of an element (e.g. uranium 238 has 3 more neutrons in its nucleus than does unraniu 235. U235 and U238 are "isotopes" of uranium). Beyond that, I believe that each of the three particles I mentioned (electrons, protons and neutrons) is in turn composed of other, smaller particles called "quarks". I know that there are four types of quark - "up", "down", "charmed" and "strange". And that is the limit of my understanding of the subject. But as I said, I am not sure of the makeup of the protons, electrons and neutrons.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Fri 12/19/08 05:05 PM Edited by smiless on Fri 12/19/08 05:07 PM
ahh now we are working on something. Quarks you mention. Very interesting. If you go to this thread we have actually made some ground about atoms. You may find it interesting if you don't already know about it. I surely didn't, but very interesting to read on it. http://mingle2.com/topic/show/189593

SkyHook5652 Joined Sat 08/23/08 Posts: 4063	Fri 12/19/08 05:19 PM
ahh now we are working on something. Quarks you mention. Very interesting. If you go to this thread we have actually made some ground about atoms. You may find it interesting if you don't already know about it. I surely didn't, but very interesting to read on it. http://mingle2.com/topic/show/189593 Yes, I saw Abracadabra's posts in that thread after I made my post. He is the other person I would have suggested as a source for information about "the smallest particle". I read his posts and learned a few things as well. He's always been pretty good at explaining things like that.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Fri 12/19/08 05:24 PM
Well thank you for your knowledge regardless. It was very beneficial and interesting

AJB1985 Joined Tue 12/23/08 Posts: 3	Wed 12/24/08 12:24 AM
I'm a physics student and currently in the process of studying quantum mechanics (though I am really just getting started in this area) so I might be able to offer a little insight. Due to conservation of mass and energy, the mass that composes any given atom must be accounted for. Or rather, it can't just disappear. However, I don't think this is what you were originally asking. I think your question is does an atom with X protons and Y electrons stay with those respective numbers forever or does it lose them or gain more. If you were to isolate a stable atom from the rest of the universe, it would stay as it is. However, anything from another particle smashing into the atom or interactions with light can change properties of the atom. On the other hand, unstable atoms will deteriorate until stable atoms are present. As a fun aside, it's not entirely proper to think of quantum particles like electrons and protons as having a nice, defined area it resides, like a cup on your desk might.

smiless Joined Wed 09/26/07 Posts: 13765	Wed 12/24/08 11:16 AM
I'm a physics student and currently in the process of studying quantum mechanics (though I am really just getting started in this area) so I might be able to offer a little insight. Due to conservation of mass and energy, the mass that composes any given atom must be accounted for. Or rather, it can't just disappear. However, I don't think this is what you were originally asking. I think your question is does an atom with X protons and Y electrons stay with those respective numbers forever or does it lose them or gain more. If you were to isolate a stable atom from the rest of the universe, it would stay as it is. However, anything from another particle smashing into the atom or interactions with light can change properties of the atom. On the other hand, unstable atoms will deteriorate until stable atoms are present. As a fun aside, it's not entirely proper to think of quantum particles like electrons and protons as having a nice, defined area it resides, like a cup on your desk might. thank you for sharing your knowledge on the subject

Bushidobillyclub Joined Fri 05/11/07 Posts: 5689	Wed 12/24/08 11:52 AM Edited by Bushidobillyclub on Wed 12/24/08 11:56 AM
Does a atom stay existent forever? Sorry I can't find the right words. What I am trying to say is we know that a atom consists of a nucleus surrounded by neutrons, electrons, and protons. Of course for you scientific minds, I am sure you can come up with a better definition, but what I am trying to find out is: Can this atom stay consistent forever or does it break down and die? Can it have the same amount of electrons, protons, neutrons throughout its life indefinetly if possible? Where's our resident particle physicist (Bushidobillyclub) when we need him? Here's what I know... It is possible to cause an atom to split apart by "shooting" it with another particle. It is similar to throwing a rock at a glass bottle. The bottle breaks apart into pieces. This is what particle accelerators do. Some atoms deteriorate by splitting into pieces naturally. These are what we call "radioactive" atoms. The "splitting apart" is called "fission". When enough of these radioactive atoms get together, the "pieces" from one split shoot off and hit other atoms causing them to split, and the pieces from that one go off and hit other atoms...etc. This is called a "fusion reaction" and is what happens inside "atom bombs". Each time an atom "splits", it releases energy. And it is also possible to cause two atoms to fuse together into a new atom. (Two atoms of hydrogen, each having a single proton and a single electron, fuse together to make a single helium atom with two protons and two electrons.) This is called "fusion" and is what happens inside of stars and "hydrogen bombs". Each time two atoms fuse together, they release energy. Now that is very interesting indeed. Now could you tell me if there is something smaller then a atom or what is inside the atom such as the electron, proton, neutron. Is there a small molecule existing or is that the smallest it can be? Some defintions are in order here... A molecule is a group of atoms that are "attached" to each other. And example wiould be an molecule of water, which is composed of two hydrogen (H2) and one Oxygen (O) atom. The means by which they stay attached to each other is too length to explain here. Just think of atoms as having "plugs and sockets" that make it easy for some configurations to fit together.) An atom is clasically described as having a group of protons (positive charge) in its center (the nucleus) and an equal number of electrons (negative charge) orbiting around the nucleus. The nucleus of an atom may also have neutrons (neutral charge) at it's center. This is what makes up different "isotopes" of an element (e.g. uranium 238 has 3 more neutrons in its nucleus than does unraniu 235. U235 and U238 are "isotopes" of uranium). Beyond that, I believe that each of the three particles I mentioned (electrons, protons and neutrons) is in turn composed of other, smaller particles called "quarks". I know that there are four types of quark - "up", "down", "charmed" and "strange". And that is the limit of my understanding of the subject. But as I said, I am not sure of the makeup of the protons, electrons and neutrons. Very Accurate, except electrons are not comprised of Quarks. Electrons are currently thought to be a fundamental particle like a quark is supposed to be in the standard model. I have been playing my Sax, and studying maths! So I have not had as much time to post here with my wonderful friends! I hope you all are doing well and having a good holiday season!

invisible Joined Mon 04/09/07 Posts: 7692	Wed 12/24/08 12:02 PM
So the way understand it, an atom changes when it is joined up with other atoms. Like H2O. And it can't be the same after it is split from the atoms that joined it? Sorry, I'm a bit dense in physics, to much theory for my liking, but I live and learn as I go on.