I became an atheist when I was selected to read a passage of the bible
at church while I was at school.

I was not brought up as Catholic or a Christian, neither was I abused in
the sinister sense of that word, nor was I reacting bitterly to the idea
of relgious piety.

I was "educated" in the Church of England. All my family are Church of
England still, although that does not imply that any of them are
especially active or pious, it isn't that kind of a church.

I cannot remember ever expressing any interest in God or Church before
my mother gave me the “wonderful news” that although I was then to young
to join the cub scouts (I can't remember asking to join them either) I
could be accepted into the brotherly love club.

Not wanting to do it didn't seem to be treated as much of a reason not
to go so I became a compliant and started practicing my enunciations.

While I didn't especially enjoy the practice it was not particularly
traumatic. I made the best of the situation, I was forced to go but then
I was also forced to go to school, to go to the Ddoctors, to kiss Auntie
Gaynor, to wear the clothes my father made for me and a thousand and one
other things that I didn't fully agree with the sense of.

Children have a huge capacity to cope with impositions. Never read too
much into the acquiescence of a child.

I dont beleive in god! I cannot remember believing in Father Christmas
either. In my case the efforts at teaching me about God simply failed. I
did not make any conscious decision to reject the idea they simply
didn't add up. I took in the stories and tried to make sense of them,
but they didn't quite make sense for me.

Jonah got swallowed by a whale! The only whales that could make it to
the Sea of Galillee are whale sharks, and they would have had one hell
of a time getting there!

I found a lot of interesting things in the church building and I
listened to the sermons, lessons and hymns.

I developed a love of history. My mother misinterpreted my general
interest in things connected with the church as a desire to become a
full member of the church. In truth I was just an insatiably curious
boy, put a curious boy in a church and what do you expect will happen?

I suppose she expected I would become a Christian. She used to tell the
story of how I expressed a desire to be a bishop. It made sense to me,
my dad worked long hours, but the rector only worked for a couple of
hours on Sundays, plus the odd hatch, match and despatch (baptism,
wedding and funeral) but his boss was the bishop, and he only came
around every few months. It seemed like a cushy job to me.

I would then get to see my dad more!

I tried to believe the creed I had listened to but it wasn't right, I
didn't believe this stuff. That meant saying it was lying. That meant
that saying it was wrong. What was I doing there?

Christians always interpret this “rejection of Christianity” as some
kind of teenage reaction, inspired by pique, or hormones or sodomy.

It was nothing of the sort. I had listened to the story they were
telling for long enough to know that I simply did not believe them. As I
didn't believe in God I could see no good reason for me to go to church.

Children are born atheists. They are born without any belief in the
afterlife and any supernatural forces; and without the knowledge that
their country is the best country on Earth, and their race is the best
race.

Children are empty vessels which the parents and the rest of society
proceeds to fill up with prejudices and unfounded beliefs.

If onne person I could thank for helping me become happy as an atheist
it must be David Attenborough. The tremendous BBC television programs he
made in the 1970s helped me to realize that the fundamental mystery at
the heart of the human situation was no mystery at all.

It was understandable.
Evolution was the key.
Now one more light is Richard Dawkins. Having started reading "The God
Delusion" its clear to me that my childhood thoughts were not a
disappointment to my mother, they were actual logical progressions.

I have since done some more study into other religions (Islam &
Buddhism) and come to the same conclusions that I had as a child.

We are all born without religion. No child believes in God. Why should
they?

Can you hear me applauding?

Can I go one step further with this and ask how you feel about it too?

You mention that you think every child is born an athiest. Let's take
that one step futher.

What, exactly, is it that makes a child believe? You didn't, I didn't,
but I struggled for years to find out what was wrong, why didn't I
believe, then I struggled for year trying to understand why others did
believe.

Would like to hear more from you and others about this.

I think that what makes a child believe is their indoctrination from
their role models.

If you teach something so often, then it is ingrained in their psyche.

Just like the questioning indoctrination.

"Dont just accept, question" is as ingrained in me as the blind faith
that some people have.

I saught out knowledge of other religions, like I absorbed information
on Christianity.

I lived in Egypt for a year and my closest friend was an Egyptian
accountant, with whom I had many philosophical debates with.

His indoctrination into Islam was very deeply ingrained, and after a
while his answers to my questions became predictable and sounded very
practiced.

I found it interesting that a woman can decide to leave the Islamic
faith, for example, but a man is not allowed to. If the woman has
children after her split from Islam, then her children HAVE to be
brought up as muslim ...

I did not research that, so it may not be right, but Sayeed was so
strong in his condemnation of western women who marry islamic men, have
children and then leave to return to their own culture, only to halt the
islamic education.

The last time I was in Egypt, Sayeed had married a girl from the UK and
she was pregnant. This was 3 years ago. I would be interested in his
wife's views!

What made me "not believe" was the lack of logic in it.
What would make a reasonably intelligent person take the word of a 2000
year old book, that wasnt complete, the stories were picked at random,
contradicted itself on a regular basis and even the first story didnt
make sense.

Adam+Eve= millions?

Noah's ark? A physical impossibility, even now.

Parting of the Red Sea? Possible though, as there was a huge eruption
of a volcano in the Mediterranean, that destroyed the Minoan
civilisation in Crete, as the tidal wave was so high, it wiped out the
island of Crete and the eruption was so fierce that it created the
island of Santorini.
It was timed about 3500 years ago.

So, I couldnt make any of these add up.

Blind faith just doesnt work for me.
I have to find out.

Bel, first about how children come to believe. It all seems like it's
innocent enough, however, I put this whole think on the same level as I
put child abuse. Perhaps you were making that point when you spoke of
your friend, Sayeed. His beliefs were not his own, and yet they were so
inpressed in him as to become some basic part of his reality. What I
have found in so many people, trained, this way is an inability to
perceive and assimilate logic from outside that realm. This, I believe,
is not what we should normally expect of an otherwise, capable minded,
questioning, intelligent human being. This same boxed mind can not test
the limits of the box, without fear at some deeper, even unrecognized
level.
Many of those I have spoken with who admit to being agnostic, truely
don't believe, their only reason for sitting on the fence is this "what
if". They can not even give themselves enough credit to grasp the
logic that has brought to the brink.

So I have found that with people like this, it's best to know as much
about what they believe, why they "think" they believe and accept them
for the good poeple they are. This accomplishes two things, one it
keeps peace and allows both sides to communicate and accept each other
on a human level. Secondly, it gives me the tools to fight their many
illogical beliefs, when a bias or judgement is made by them or when a
legal, civil law of equality is at stake.

That is why I am happy to hear yours and everyone elses views.
thanks.

The problem is that to express an opinion on such a taboo subject is
asking for trouble. People are polarised by religion.

To be an athiest is to be bordering on insanity in a community like
this.

Its interesting that the only threads, this morning, I have posted to
are in a category on which I have an innate distaste for.

I guess the need for discussion far outweighs the dislike of the topic.
It causes me to think of the reasons why I so abhor all things degrading
and subjecting about religion, and express them in a clear and
non-controversial way