2 Next
Topic: Israel Is Losing This War
Thomas3474's photo
Tue 01/13/09 03:37 AM

You got to be kidding me if I believe that nonsense.Are you expecting me to believe that Israel soliders don't want to get some payback at Hamas for the years of rocket attacks and suicide bombers?Hamas has been a thorn in the side of Israel since they took power.I'm sure anyone with a handgun in Israel would glady join the Army and kill every last one off those Jihad loving terrorist.You better read todays news.Israel is not talking about cutting and running.They are talking about striking down a iron fist!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090113/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli troops advanced into Gaza suburbs for the first time early Tuesday, residents said, hours after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Islamic militants of an "iron fist" unless they agree to Israel's terms to end the fighting. Hamas showed no signs of wavering, however, with its leader, Ismail Haniyeh, saying the militants were "closer to victory."


Now then because you don't read what is posted prior I will post again here.


IDF reservist refuses to fight in Gaza over civilian deaths

An Israel Defense Forces reserves soldier, taking part in Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip which entered its 17th day on Monday, has refused to enter the Hamas-ruled territory along with his unit in protest of the killing of Palestinian civilians.

On Monday it emerged that the soldier has been jailed for 14 days in a military facility. He was the first soldier to be tried for refusing orders since the beginning of the operation.

Attorney Michael Sfard, the legal adviser of Omets ? a non profit organization for judicial and social justice ? said that since the beginning of the Israeli offensive on December 27, eight reservists have sought his advice upon being drafted in the emergency reserves call-up.

Of the eight reservists, three have refused to enter the Strip so far. Two of them arrived at agreements with their commanders exempting them from fighting with their units.



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054861.html

.................................................



This has happened before in the IDF. Groups of soldiers and officers have signed letters refusing service in GAZA against a civilian population. Prior time was regular force and reservists.



Wow really 8 reservist out of 408,000 refused duty!!!Now that is big news! rofl and out of those 8 only 3 refused to enter the strip! slaphead Man you are really desperate for some dirt on Israel.Hate to break the news to you buddy but as someone who was in the Naval reserves for 10 years alot of people don't want to leave their jobs for a War.Refusal of reservist duty is hardly news and it happends all the time.Punishment is usually nothing more than a slap on the hand and possibly not getting paid for that weekend.It's hardly worth mentioning.

karmafury's photo
Tue 01/13/09 03:46 AM
2.)Wrong-Israel has always been there since biblical times.More to the point Jews have always lived in Israel.The UN wanted to divide Israel and the Palestinians.Both Israel and the Palestinians disagreed on the UN recommendation and both went to war.Israel won and therefore has a ligitamate right to live there.


WRONG!! The Jewish people have always been there. The State of Israel is relatively new. The Jews lived in Palestine until the creation of Israel.


5.)Israel is not alone.The United States will always back Israel.The United kingdom will too.I'm sure there is also other countries that will support Israel if they needed it.


Current events in Gaza are costing them support. Israel has probably lost it's 'automatic veto' on UN Security Council (through US).


6.)That is not true.Israel is not a big bully.If anything Israel is just the opposite.Two years of rockets attacks with out a invasion is just one example.


Equally wrong. Israel has controlled Palestine even without a feet on ground occupation. It's troops enter at will, helicopters fly over for missions at will. The 'sovereignty' of the the Palestinian Authority is not respected.
Also, from letter by IDF officers,:"The fighting in Gaza is currently very different from that in the West Bank: Lacking the precise intelligence information available in the West Bank and confronted with a growing terrorist threat, the IDF has escalated its operations to the point of collective punishment. In the West Bank, house demolitions are "pinpoint" operations, used to punish the families of suicide bombers. In Gaza, dozens of houses can be destroyed at a time, in an effort to move the front lines away from the settlements and IDF positions."

http://www.shovrimshtika.org/press_item_e.asp?id=117

The 'Peace Loving Israel' card doesn't work any more.
........................................


BOTH SIDES ARE IN THE WRONG. BOTH SIDES ARE EQUALLY GUILTY OF THE CRAP THAT'S HAPPENING. THE PROBLEM IS NEITHER WANTS TO BACK DOWN, LOSE FACE.

MEANWHILE THE CIVILIANS OF GAZA PAY THE PRICE FOR THE STUPIDITY, CRUELTY AND INSANITY OF BOTH!!!


karmafury's photo
Tue 01/13/09 03:48 AM
Edited by karmafury on Tue 01/13/09 03:52 AM


You got to be kidding me if I believe that nonsense.Are you expecting me to believe that Israel soliders don't want to get some payback at Hamas for the years of rocket attacks and suicide bombers?Hamas has been a thorn in the side of Israel since they took power.I'm sure anyone with a handgun in Israel would glady join the Army and kill every last one off those Jihad loving terrorist.You better read todays news.Israel is not talking about cutting and running.They are talking about striking down a iron fist!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090113/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians


GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Israeli troops advanced into Gaza suburbs for the first time early Tuesday, residents said, hours after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned Islamic militants of an "iron fist" unless they agree to Israel's terms to end the fighting. Hamas showed no signs of wavering, however, with its leader, Ismail Haniyeh, saying the militants were "closer to victory."


Now then because you don't read what is posted prior I will post again here.


IDF reservist refuses to fight in Gaza over civilian deaths

An Israel Defense Forces reserves soldier, taking part in Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip which entered its 17th day on Monday, has refused to enter the Hamas-ruled territory along with his unit in protest of the killing of Palestinian civilians.

On Monday it emerged that the soldier has been jailed for 14 days in a military facility. He was the first soldier to be tried for refusing orders since the beginning of the operation.

Attorney Michael Sfard, the legal adviser of Omets ? a non profit organization for judicial and social justice ? said that since the beginning of the Israeli offensive on December 27, eight reservists have sought his advice upon being drafted in the emergency reserves call-up.

Of the eight reservists, three have refused to enter the Strip so far. Two of them arrived at agreements with their commanders exempting them from fighting with their units.



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054861.html

.................................................



This has happened before in the IDF. Groups of soldiers and officers have signed letters refusing service in GAZA against a civilian population. Prior time was regular force and reservists.



Wow really 8 reservist out of 408,000 refused duty!!!Now that is big news! rofl and out of those 8 only 3 refused to enter the strip! slaphead Man you are really desperate for some dirt on Israel.Hate to break the news to you buddy but as someone who was in the Naval reserves for 10 years alot of people don't want to leave their jobs for a War.Refusal of reservist duty is hardly news and it happends all the time.Punishment is usually nothing more than a slap on the hand and possibly not getting paid for that weekend.It's hardly worth mentioning.


Those are the ones that are actually in paper. Most never make it to publication. They are 'forgotten' that way. They don't get a slap on wrist. They are interned.



These were REGULAR not Reserve


* We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
* We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation exacts from both sides.
* We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
* We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF’s human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
* We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements are bound to be evacuated in the end.
* We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the Settlements.
* We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
* We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense Forces in any mission that serves Israel’s defense.
* The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose – and we shall take no part in them.



http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

* Bold type is in original.

warmachine's photo
Tue 01/13/09 07:20 AM
Hey, our Government just happens to also be filled with wannabe dictators who are crazy as a chipmunk on meth and want to see the end of the United States.


warmachine's photo
Tue 01/13/09 07:27 AM
America’s shame

Paul Craig Roberts

Tuesday, Jan 13, 2008

Why does Israel have a right to exist, but Palestine doesn’t?

This is the question of our time.

For 60 years Israelis have been stealing Palestine from Palestinians. There are maps available on the Internet and in Israeli publications showing the shrinkage over time of what was once Palestine into what Palestine is today — a small number of unconnected ghettos or bantustans.

Palestine became “the occupied territory” from which Palestinians were ejected and Israeli settlements built for “settlers.” Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are full of refugee camps in which Palestinians driven off their lands by Israeli force have been living for decades.

Driving people off their land is strictly illegal under international law, but Israel has been getting away with it for decades.

Gaza is a concentration camp of 1.5 million Palestinians who were driven from their homes and villages and collected in the Gaza Ghetto.

The United Nations Relief and Works Agency was created 60 years ago in 1949 to administer refugee camps for Palestinians driven from their lands by Israel. As of 2002, the registered Palestinian refugee population was 3.9 million.

Caterpillar Tractor makes a special bulldozer for Israel that is designed to knock down Palestinian homes and to uproot their orchards. In 2003, an American protester, Rachel Corrie, stood in front of one of these Caterpillars and was run over and crushed.

Nothing happened. The Israelis can kill whomever they want whenever they want.

They have been doing so for 60 years, and they show no sign of stopping.

Currently, they are murdering women and children in the ghetto that they have created for Palestinians in Gaza. The entire world knows this. The Red Cross protests it. But the Israelis brazenly claim that they are killing “Hamas terrorists who are a threat to Israel’s existence.”

The American media knows that this is a lie, but does not say so.

Israel has been able to slowly exterminate a people for 60 years without provoking sufficient outrage to stop it.

The United States, “Christian America,” has been Israel’s greatest enabler in its long-term murder of the Palestinian people. Millions of “evangelical Christians” endorse Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

The rest of the world condemns the Israeli military attack on the Gaza Ghetto. Last week, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution requiring a ceasefire and the withdrawal of the Israeli SS from Gaza.

The United States abstained.

While the rest of the world condemns Israel’s inhumanity, the US Congress — I should say the US Knesset — rushed to endorse the Israeli slaughter of the Palestinians in Gaza.

The US Senate endorsed Israel’s massacre of Palestinians with a unanimous vote.

The US House of Representatives voted 430-5 to endorse Israel’s massacre of Palestinians.

The resolutions endorsed by 100 percent of the US Senate and 99 percent of the House were written by AIPAC, as were the speeches praising Israel for its inhumanity.

The US Congress was proud to show that it is Israel’s puppet even when it comes to murdering women and children.

The President of the United States was proud to block effective action by the UN Security Council by ordering the secretary of state to abstain.

Be a Proud American. Swagger and strut. Pretend that you are not besmirched by the shame that your government has heaped upon you. Take refuge in your ignorance, fostered by 60 years of Israeli lies, that the murder of Palestinians and the theft of their lands is “Israel’s right of self-defense.”

2 Next