What at all of you Are You weak Atheists or Strong Atheists?


Philosophers such as Antony Flew[34], Michael Martin[22], and William L. Rowe[35] have contrasted strong (positive) atheism with weak (negative) atheism. Strong atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist. Weak atheism includes all other forms of non-theism. According to this categorization, anyone who is not a theist is either a weak or a strong atheist.[36] The terms weak and strong are relatively recent; however, the equivalent terms negative and positive atheism have been used in the philosophical literature[34] and (in a slightly different sense) in Catholic apologetics.[37] Under this demarcation of atheism, most agnostics qualify as weak atheists.

While Martin, for example, asserts that agnosticism entails weak atheism,[22] most agnostics see their view as distinct from atheism, which they may consider no more justified than theism or requiring an equal conviction.[38] The supposed unattainability of knowledge for or against the existence of gods is sometimes seen as indication that atheism requires a leap of faith.[39] Common atheist responses to this argument include that unproven religious propositions deserve as much disbelief as all other unproven propositions,[40] and that the unprovability of a god's existence does not imply equal probability of either possibility.[41] Scottish philosopher J. J. C. Smart even argues that "sometimes a person who is really an atheist may describe herself, even passionately, as an agnostic because of unreasonable generalised philosophical scepticism which would preclude us from saying that we know anything whatever, except perhaps the truths of mathematics and formal logic."[42] Consequently, some popular atheist authors such as Richard Dawkins prefer distinguishing theist, agnostic and atheist positions by the probability assigned to the statement "God exists".[43]

The French Revolution took atheism outside the salons and into the public sphere. Attempts to enforce the Civil Constitution of the Clergy led to anti-clerical violence and the expulsion of many clergy from France. The chaotic political events in revolutionary Paris eventually enabled the more radical Jacobins to seize power in 1793, ushering in the Reign of Terror. At its climax, the more militant atheists attempted to forcibly de-Christianize France, replacing religion with a Cult of Reason. These persecutions ended with the Thermidorian Reaction, but some of the secularizing measures of this period remained a permanent legacy of French politics.

The Napoleonic era institutionalized the secularization of French society, and exported the revolution to northern Italy, in the hopes of creating pliable republics. In the 19th century, many atheists and other anti-religious thinkers devoted their efforts to political and social revolution, facilitating the upheavals of 1848, the Risorgimento in Italy, and the growth of an international socialist movement.

In the latter half of the 19th century, atheism rose to prominence under the influence of rationalistic and freethinking philosophers. Many prominent German philosophers of this era denied the existence of deities and were critical of religion, including Ludwig Feuerbach, Arthur Schopenhauer, Karl Marx, and Friedrich Nietzsche.[87]

IT IS QUITE CLEAR WHEN WE LOOK AT RUSSIA ESPECIALLY THE THE MODERN DAY ATHIEST ARE COMMUNISTS.. THAT WOULD FIT A BETTER TERM FOR THEM. We can see that thier forefathers overthrew france in thier belief of a disbelief.

It had only been since athiests have come out in full blum thet the Communistic thought of limit how many children can be born such as china. They are heading that was but instead they do their murderous maiming of the unborn claiming it does not have rights or a soul.

Where as the believer believes in the unborns right to live.

We can not change what our forfathers may od did. But we can change the here and now. yet the Athiests Communist perty and that is what it is does believe it has the right to pick and choose who may live and who may not.

A very dangerous cult..Shalom...Miles

"replacing religion with a Cult of Reason."

I wouldn’t consider myself an Atheist of any determinate "strength." I just have a strong feeling that Christianity specifically is unjustifiable.

Is that not what Stalin said also..Shalom..Miles

What did Stalin say? I will see your Hitler and raise you a communist regime?

Well, I'm Agnostic...isn't that essentially a weak Atheist?

Yep.

Look around you. You all want to put down the bible. It is true thier was a day when atrocities happened.

In todays world where the Holy Bible is held as a guidence book you have the freedom to say and speak what you want.

Just like on here.

In a communists or socialists country you have to watch what you say. Because at the top is an Athiests and he has decided he has total control.

So why don't Athiests and non believers flock to Russia to where they won't have to hear anything about the Scriptures? Blessings...Miles

Miles you are being somewhat melodramatic. Are atheists communists? Of course not. Some atheists are communists, and communists have been taught to be atheists, but becoming an atheist doesn't affect your politics. It would be the same if I pronounced that ALL Christians are killers.

what I am saying is if you want to pull all kinds of scriptures out and try to make us out to be a fool maybe just maybe I might have to do some deep research about athiesm and i am sure i can find philosiphy's that are derogatory.

I have watched and seen al the make fun of anyone who believes in the bible when the fact is the freedom you have today is because of people being tolorant of other views.. In an athiest society I do not believe you will find the same tolorance. So which place would you rather live? The scriptures are what has given us the freedom we have not athiesm..Blessings...Miles

Well what I am saying is that you are attempting to throw a tarp over ALL atheists and classify them as being Communists or of the socialist political persuasion. That is not true and would be the same if I said that ALL Christians are mass murderers. Historically more people have died in the name of religion than for any other reason...ever.

Some might argue that I in fact could make that statement justifiably but I would disagree because I know from personal observation that not all Christians are terribly, hateful people.

What you are attempting to say is that all Atheists are Communists and that is a misrepresentation of reality. Many people who have been classified as atheists have simply been raised under a communist regime. These are atheists by default or convenience, not atheists by conviction, personal experience or logical deduction.

You should really learn to make a distinction here.

actually Athiests can flock to most of Europe.
Sweedan, the Netherlands, Britan, Germany,
most Europian countries are mostly non-religious.

The truth is that no-one can truly say there is absolutly no god. And no-one can say there absolutly is.
If we are to honest with ourselves we are all agnostic.
But the god of the bible is pretty well ruled out by basic logic.

And who is "putting down the bible?" Are we not allowed to disagree or offer a dissenting viewpoint? Would you simply prefer that we present no debate at all and just blindly accept everything hurled at us and praise Jesus? These are problems that anyone can address.

Ignorant and loaded question. Actually the best country in the world for atheist is Sweden.

I really expect more from you miles.

Since you have no scriptures of ours to argue over you just have to take a real bad example of someone who shares a lack of a belief and justify why that lack of belief is bad. You know we could do the same with believers all day long, and show all the bad things that believers have done blah blah blah, but it would actually do nothing to further this conversation, and it wouldn't really make the point you are trying to make either.

That is not reasoning miles, its irrational and should be beneath you.
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Now to the post.

I do not subscribe to the idea of strong or weak atheism, that really implies a philosophy which is wrong at its heart.

A person can hold a positive belief that there is a god, but its irrational based on evidence.

It would there for be equally irrational to hold a positive beliefs that there is no god.

Now here is how atheism really works, I don't give a good G-dam what anyone says about the subject otherwise. My logic trumps all and more and more atheist are starting to understand as well. Sadly the theist will always use whatever arguments they can come up with to make lack of belief look bad for there own purposes and further confuse the situation, I have come to accept that.


A positive assertion requires justification.
No assertion requires no justification.

Its that simple.

Theism: the positive belief (assertion) that a god exists. This must be based on faith as there is no evidence to support this.

Atheism: is everything that is not theism. No really it is, if you ALMOST except but not quite that a god COULD exit, guess what . . . you don't believe there for you are an atheist.

It really is simple. People try to make it hard to create confusion and to express there own arguments why lack of belief is bad and try to convert the masses.

Agnosticism at its best describes people who are intellectually honest with themselves . . . THAT IS IT.
Agnosticism is a throw away word, that really came to be so that people who where not sure would not be labeled with the "evil" Blasphemous title of atheist.

No really BLASPHEMY. That is right lack of belief has been punishable BY DEATH for centuries, and you wonder why people make softer words and try not to make it seem like they are a non believer.

That is what has caused this back lash and confusion, and has created the idea of strong atheism, which to me is equally absurd, yet understandable just like theism to me is understandable.

People are angry at religiosity and how it has tried to control every facet of there life and claim ultimate moral supremacy for a long time.

I can understand, but its still absurd.



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Actually I am not done here, let me give some examples.

So Miles are you a strong atheist when it comes to belief in Thor? What about Odin? What about Krishna? Or are you agnostic and think that those gods COULD exit, but you don't believe we will ever know . . lol

This conversation when real examples are used really should be highlighted as easily understood.

I think children understand this easier then adults, most have less brain washing to cloud there reasoning.

at least i got u to thinking..Blessings..Miles

You got me thinking you are trying to assert that ALL atheists are evil Commies. Well have it your way. Then you might as well say that all Christians are blood thirsty murderers.

The only thing I know with absolute certainty is that we'd be far better off if atheism turns out to be true than if the biblical picture of God turns out to be true.

The biblical picture of God is a picture of a truly pathetic God. And that's just my observation as a human.

The bible was written by morons.

I don't believe that our creator is a moron.

The beautiful truth is that it doesn't need to come down to either atheism or the biblical picture of God. That a moronic mentality right there.

Why should we believe that either some stupid crude society in the Middle East got it right, or there is no God at all? That idea right there is utterly stupid.

There were many other cultures that also had ideas of what God might be like. Eastern Mysticism is a far better picture of God. There are no losers in Eastern Mysticism.

That right there shows that Eastern Mysticism if far more likely to be trun that the bigoted male chuavinistic picture of a loser God that the Miditerranean cultures made up.

The Bible demands that God is a loser. It proclaims it in several places. The totally inept biblical God lost the Egyptians. He lost the Caananites. At one point he had to flood the entire planet and he lost all but a handful of souls.

The biblical God is the Great Loser. The biblical God loses far more souls than he creates. For the Bible tells us so.

Even in the New Testament Jesus supposedly said, "The path is straight and the gate is narrow and few will make it to the kingdom of God".

So here we even have Jesus confirming that the biblical God is the Great Loser of Souls. If only few will make it into his kingdom then the vast majority must not make it. What other conclusions are there to be had?

The biblical God is the Great Loser of Souls. For the Bible tells us so.

Yet, in Eastern Mysticism every soul returns to God. No one is lost. It's impossible to lose your way from God in a permanent sense. You can only get lost in a temporary sense.

The reason that many people lust for the Bible to be true, is because they have a hateful need for REVENGE!

They want to see somone punished for all their suffering and turmoil.

But in Eastern Mysticism the truth is that they are completely responsible for their own suffering and turmoil, and there is no one to point the figure at.

People who worship the vengefull loser God of the Bible are always pointing fingers. That's all they know how to do because that's what the Bible is all about; pointing blame.

But in the Eastern Mystic picture of God there is no blame beyond the self. There is no need for vengence. There is no need for rejection. All souls return to their maker.

Clearly Eastern Mysticism is divine.

The biblical picture of God is not.

So it truly doesn't come down to either atheism or the biblical picture of God.

There are other pictures of God out there that are truly divine.

That's where I'm at.

No way am I going to believe that God is a hateful jealous judgmental loser like the men from the Middle East claim. I think they were describing their own culture, not any God.

Yes, I totally denounce the Bible as being as far from divine as a picture of any God can possibly get.

Why would I want to put my faith in such a dismal picture of a hateful loser God? And that's precisely what the Bible demands that God is. Both hateful, and a loser. For the Bible tells us so.

Sorry miles you don't get the credit for that.

I think it is you that should get to ... thinking.

Nice post above Billy. I think I've decided that I am an atheist.