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| Topic: Evolution is it a fact? | |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 02/03/09 09:50 PM
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To truly understand the recent controversy that has arisen due to evolution I think The series from PBS does a great job.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/program.html If you then want to take some time to educate your self on how evolution really works to get an objective view then please take some time to look at the collected information at the Berkeley website. OR for more in depth and detailed information on biology then watch the videos in my youtube playlist links at the bottom of this post and the in the next post. UC Berkeley Online Videos on evolution. This is a search from the UC Berkeley Online Videos where the search word was Evolution. This is an assortment of highly educational videos on biology which CONSTANTLY reach back to evolution to explain living anatomy. Shear genius. 65 videos, I believe an hour a piece . . . this is a large volume of classroom videos, if you want to wait a bit to dig in then look below for more quick videos on evolution and intelligent design. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ucberkeley&view=videos&query=evolution Also the Berkeley Understanding Evolution Website. << Where I would go if I didn't want to exclusively watch videos and want to read about evolution and biology in general without all the controversy and debate, just the facts. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/ _____________________________________________________________________________________ Excellent videos on evolution and why Creationism and intelligent design are not valid. Don is a Christian Medical student. I highly respect Don. DonExodus2: How Evolution Works 7 videos 61.84 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpNeGuuuvTY&feature=PlayList&p=019F146277A3EDFD&index=0&playnext=1 Don mentions early on the UC Berkeley website, if you are interested in studying the topic, and want to learn about the whole creation debate, then please see the link at the top of this post for that website. Between Shane and Don, you will get A LOT of information on evolution, these can be very educational videos. *Please be advised . . . please read a little bit on cell biology on Berkeley's site first if you are not up on your high school biology. shanedk: How Evolution Is Scientific PartPlaylist: 4 Videos 33.5 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLNoRlxjvJI&feature=PlayList&p=011E35493D199DC6&index=0&playnext =1 |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Tue 02/03/09 09:40 PM
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Creationism is a whole other topic, however evolution is usually the attack point for creationists and especially young earth creationists.
If you want to see an online young earth creationist get owned intellectually over and over again, then this series is for you! Thunderfoot uses science over and over again to elucidate the topic. I will let the man explain himself in this introduction to the series of movies. Thunderf00t: These videos were made for the communal and greater good. All these videos are copyright free for educational purposes, feel free to mirror these videos with or without accreditation.Part of a series of videos exposing the funny stupidity of creationists and why they deserve to be laughed at. In each case the creationist statements are shown to be outrageously stupid by even the most rudimentary knowledge of science. Creationist are tackled at every level from the scientific illiterates like venomfangx who want to play in the scientific arena but don't even understand the words they use, to convicted fraudsters like Kent Hovind who abuse the scientifical illiteracy of people like venomfangx to dupe them out of money. An enterprise which is clearly very successful as merely the tax Hovind didn't pay was about a million dollars. Hovind himself has no discernible academic education, and gets by solely on using his confident delivery of scientific terms to convince his audiences that he knows what hes talking about. Then of course there are the professional such as the Discovery Institute, the hub and founders of the Intelligent design movement. After the humiliating rout of ID in court where it was found that 'ID is not science', and that 'ID is only a relabelling of creationism' the Discovery Institute do not utter the word once in their latest promotional video. Instead they now have decided to 'teach the controversy' which is an irony as they are the only people who disagree with evolution. What they are really asking is not to teach the controversy, but to teach their views, which are supported by neither research or evidence, in schools. Why do people laugh at creationists?24 Videos 2.8 Hrs of Creationist being illuminated. Very worth it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS5vid4GkEY&feature=PlayList&p=AC3481305829426D&index=0&playnext=1 Creationism Vs Science: 3 videos total 13.25 minutes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uephBmkupvQ&feature=PlayList&p=1907790C538A907A&index=0&playnext=1 cdk007: READ THIS In this video I deconstruct the broken watch straw man argument used by creationist / ID supporters to attack evolution. I had to pack a ton of information into this video so you WILL need to pause it periodically. The basic premise of the argument is that a bunch of parts will never randomly assemble into the correct arrangement to form a properly functioning complex. Once again, creationists / ID supporters miss the basic concept of evolution entirely. No biologists believes, nor is there any evidence that complex systems form spontaneously in one fell swoop. That would be creation. Systems evolve through many intermediates, one step at a time, slowly building up the complexity. Here I deconstruct their straw man argument. Basically, I simulate clocks as living organisms. Selective pressure is focused on their ability to accurately tell time. NO goal is imposed on the design (you can tell this because every simulation ends with a differently constructed clock). And it works. Clocks evolve through a series of transitional forms: Pendulum, Proto-clock, 1-handed Clock, 2-handed Clock, 3-handed Clock, and 4-handed Clock. Gradually the complexity is built up. These labels I have assigned to the transitional forms have nothing to do with the simulation itself. They are names I assigned so that we could analyze what the population was doing. The clocks are just clocks, living in their world, trying to tell time as accurately as possible. One thing I wanted to address but didn't have time in the video is how rapid the transitional period can be. In some simulations the population goes from pendulums to 3-handed Clocks in a hundred or so generations. And the transitions between the transitional forms are even more rapid, happening in about ten generations. Chances are none or a very limited representation of that transition will be preserved in the fossil record. One thing I should add. The program does not draw the clocks. It maintains, mates, and simulates them, but the drawing must be done manually from the genome matrix. The program is written in MatLab. The hand rotations that begin with 86 are 86,000 not 86.000. When YouTube compressed the video it becam hard to tell a comma from a period. To download this video go to: http://www.mediafire.com/?9e1zz000mq7 To download the program go to: http://www.mediafire.com/?1umdtnwayyp If you wish to translate this video you can download the PowerPoint file from: http://www.mediafire.com/?z33mymkjmzn Learn the facts, spread the truth, and most importantly, Think About It. Evidence FOR Evolution and Against Creationism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcAq9bmCeR0&feature=PlayList&p=F626DD5B2C1F0A87&index=0&playnext=1 |
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It always comes down to the fact that evolution is science which deals in provable facts and religion which deals in unprovable beliefs.
There is no crossing of these two except in religious minds that feel it threatens their beliefs. But it really doesn't because one is fact based and the other is belief based. |
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Evolution happens...
That is a fact!!! We(humans) have "watched" new species evolve, those of which cannot successfully breed outside of their species. Genus, I believe is another story perhaps... but I may be outdated. 
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It always comes down to the fact that evolution is science which deals in provable facts and religion which deals in unprovable beliefs. There is no crossing of these two except in religious minds that feel it threatens their beliefs. But it really doesn't because one is fact based and the other is belief based. I must say religion has provable facts,just look at all the information Biblical scholars and historians have found as factual evidence of the meaning and purpose of this life. The prohets and saints are prime examples of fact with regard to religion.the many witnesses who hung Jesus Christ for example are fact in both History and Religion. Its faith one cannot prove to another person,rather than religion. Sally |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 02/04/09 07:17 AM
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While I don't have time to watch 65 one hour videos on evolution I did find the article I was looking for on human evolution that summarizes what is now known.
There does not seem to be enough evidence to rule out the idea of an advanced civilization tinkering with a more modern design for humans, and there is no evidence that humans interbred with neanderthals or evolved from neanderthals. So neanderthals and modern humans appear to be two separate lines. No evolution there. The conclusion on the following page was: "For the moment, the majority of anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence gives credence to the view that fully modern humans are a relatively recent evolutionary phenomenon. The current best explanation for the beginning of modern humans is the Out of Africa Model that postulates a single, African origin for Homo sapiens. The major neurological and cultural innovations that characterized the appearance of fully modern humans has proven to be remarkably successful, culminating in our dominance of the planet at the expense of all earlier hominid populations." Also, the arrival of modern humans was quite sudden and seemed to appear more recently out of Africa and the Middle east: "In Africa and the Middle East there was Homo sapiens; in Asia, Homo erectus; and in Europe, Homo neanderthalensis. However, by 30,000 years ago this taxonomic diversity vanished and humans everywhere had evolved into the anatomically and behaviorally modern form. The nature of this transformation is the focus of great deliberation between two schools of thought: one that stresses multiregional continuity and the other that suggests a single origin for modern humans." "The replacement hypothesis suggests that the genes in fully modern humans all came out of Africa. As these peoples migrated they replaced all other human populations with little or no interbreeding." I see very little evolution here where modern man is concerned. They can't even connect modern man with neanderthal. So where did modern man come from? "Out of Africa" certainly is not an explanation. If Modern man evolved from some lower creature (Homo erectus) where is this genetic evidence and what creature did Homo erectus evolve from? These are My thoughts. I don't see the proof I am looking for, (for evolution) that rules out my alien theory. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 02/04/09 07:22 AM
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While I don't have time to watch 65 one hour videos on evolution I did find the article I was looking for on human evolution that summarizes what is now known. There does not seem to be enough evidence to rule out the idea of an advanced civilization tinkering with a more modern design for humans, and there is no evidence that humans interbred with neanderthals or evolved from neanderthals. So neanderthals and modern humans appear to be two separate lines. No evolution there. The conclusion on the following page was: "For the moment, the majority of anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence gives credence to the view that fully modern humans are a relatively recent evolutionary phenomenon. The current best explanation for the beginning of modern humans is the Out of Africa Model that postulates a single, African origin for Homo sapiens. The major neurological and cultural innovations that characterized the appearance of fully modern humans has proven to be remarkably successful, culminating in our dominance of the planet at the expense of all earlier hominid populations." Also, the arrival of modern humans was quite sudden and seemed to appear more recently out of Africa and the Middle east: "In Africa and the Middle East there was Homo sapiens; in Asia, Homo erectus; and in Europe, Homo neanderthalensis. However, by 30,000 years ago this taxonomic diversity vanished and humans everywhere had evolved into the anatomically and behaviorally modern form. The nature of this transformation is the focus of great deliberation between two schools of thought: one that stresses multiregional continuity and the other that suggests a single origin for modern humans." "The replacement hypothesis suggests that the genes in fully modern humans all came out of Africa. As these peoples migrated they replaced all other human populations with little or no interbreeding." I see very little evolution here where modern man is concerned. They can't even connect modern man with neanderthal. So where did modern man come from? "Out of Africa" certainly is not an explanation. If Modern man evolved from some lower creature (Homo erectus) where it this genetic evidence and where did Homo erectus evolve from? My thoughts. We do see evolution happening in modern man, it has happened with our immune system in the last thousand years even. Its written in the DNA. However you are correct, we cannot rule out all kinds of fantasy scenarios, we have ruled in evolution however. This series of videos is just on evolution Vs ID, and or creationism even through they are the same . . . I will post a series on human evolution as well, the BBC did a great job of there series and there is another one that I need to locate. I want to spend more time for a real write up becuase human evolution is always the most controversial, dang human ego's . . . . Oh yea . . . you don't have to watch 65 1hr videos, those are class room lectures, that is why I included so much other material, all the other videos are short and more of an overview then class room lectures. The PBS series is also fairly short and can be watched in the time of a normal 1 hr show. It is very convincing, probably due to the fact it was a trial and doubt is taken seriously. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 02/04/09 07:22 AM
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Your mistaken we do connect neanderthal man with modern human, the same way we connect chimpanzees, its a tree not a ladder JB. The article I read stated that they could not find a link between modern humans and neanderthal. That is what I am talking about. That we are similar, I understand that. We are also similar to chimps. That does not mean we evolved from them. Just in the same manner. Perhaps only similar to them. If this is true, they still have not found (or identified) the creature (some say it was a lemur type creature) who evolved into homo erectus. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 02/04/09 07:24 AM
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Your mistaken we do connect neanderthal man with modern human, the same way we connect chimpanzees, its a tree not a ladder JB. The article I read stated that they could not find a link between modern humans and neanderthal. That is what I am talking about. That we are similar, I understand that. We are also similar to chimps. That does not mean we evolved from them. Just in the same manner. Perhaps only similar to them. If this is true, they still have not found (or identified) the creature (some say it was a lemur type creature) who evolved into homo erectus. We and they evolved from another primate . . . . AGAIN, I will post the BBC series on human evolution LATER. Or you can look it up yourself. |
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We do see evolution happening in modern man, it has happened with our immune system in the last thousand years even. Its written in the DNA. I don't have a problem with that. You may even find us connected to elephants and tigers somewhere in the DNA or in the information contained within a single atom. I also have can see evolution within a species as they change and adapt. It's the breaking off points that lead to a new species and how that happens that are unclear. However you are correct, we cannot rule out all kinds of fantasy scenarios, we have ruled in evolution however. Fantasy scenarios? I don't call it that. I think there is sufficient evidence to support the alien theory. But you misunderstand. I am not looking for proof to support the alien theory. I am looking for proof against it. Therefore I would have to nail down and understand the exact process of how a lemur (or whatever) would change into a homo erectus and then from there evolve into a modern homo sapian and develop a modern civilization in such a short time without outside intervention. It is not just evolution I am looking at here. It is a combination of a lot of other information I have gathered that all points to the alien or advanced civilization influence. It is overwhelming and it is the best explanation I have come up with. It is far from "fantasy." |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 02/04/09 07:58 AM
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Your mistaken we do connect neanderthal man with modern human, the same way we connect chimpanzees, its a tree not a ladder JB. The article I read stated that they could not find a link between modern humans and neanderthal. That is what I am talking about. That we are similar, I understand that. We are also similar to chimps. That does not mean we evolved from them. Just in the same manner. Perhaps only similar to them. If this is true, they still have not found (or identified) the creature (some say it was a lemur type creature) who evolved into homo erectus. We and they evolved from another primate . . . . AGAIN, I will post the BBC series on human evolution LATER. Or you can look it up yourself. Okay, then, we agree that evolution does not claim that we evolved from neanderthals. It suggests that both neanderthals and modern humans evolved from "another primate." Well that makes sense since we are considered to be primates ourselves. So do they know what other primate and do they know how this evolution took place? Forget where the first primate came from, lets just see if we can find the one that humans came from. It was not apes, or chimps, or neanderthals. So was it a type of lemur? If so, would this particular species no longer exist or would there be a similar species somewhere? Perhaps one that went the other way and did not evolve into homo erectus? |
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Edited by
sally8
on
Wed 02/04/09 08:07 AM
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We do see evolution happening in modern man, it has happened with our immune system in the last thousand years even. Its written in the DNA. I don't have a problem with that. You may even find us connected to elephants and tigers somewhere in the DNA or in the information contained within a single atom. I also have can see evolution within a species as they change and adapt. It's the breaking off points that lead to a new species and how that happens that are unclear. However you are correct, we cannot rule out all kinds of fantasy scenarios, we have ruled in evolution however. Fantasy scenarios? I don't call it that. I think there is sufficient evidence to support the alien theory. But you misunderstand. I am not looking for proof to support the alien theory. I am looking for proof against it. Therefore I would have to nail down and understand the exact process of how a lemur (or whatever) would change into a homo erectus and then from there evolve into a modern homo sapian and develop a modern civilization in such a short time without outside intervention. It is not just evolution I am looking at here. It is a combination of a lot of other information I have gathered that all points to the alien or advanced civilization influence. It is overwhelming and it is the best explanation I have come up with. It is far from "fantasy." Hello, I hope you dont mind me putting my 2cents in here, but with regard to the Alien encounters and or theory, is it possible it could be Satan himself decieving mankind once again regarding the creation factor by creating illusions and deceptions,after all he is a fallen angel and is Gods greatest advesary. If you support this so called evidence on alien society, why not look for an explanation on angels and demons as there is a spritual war going on as we speak in another realm. I find far more evidence to support God,creation,miracles and the meaning and purpose of us human beings just being here. What would be our meaning and purpose anyway on this planet.? Sally  |
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Long lost mammals....
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 02/04/09 08:11 AM
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Oh yea of course saly, we all know satan put all dem fossil in da ground to tricks us.
Satan also setup the entire genetic code so dat we would see dos fossils as telln a story of evolutionism. yea . . . JB, if you are not willing to watch the videos, I am not willing to discuss this with you. The videos summarize and expound on far more information then I could do in the same amount of time. Watching them is far better for a lay person then reading for the same amount of time. |
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Edited by
Bushidobillyclub
on
Wed 02/04/09 08:12 AM
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Thank you Slowhand!
Long lost mammals.... Uhh while I find this funny, you know its just going to confuse the already confused. |
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Oh yea of course saly, we all know satan put all dem fossil in da ground to tricks us. Satan also setup the entire genetic code so dat we would see dos fossils as telln a story of evolutionism. yea . . . JB, if you are not willing to watch the videos, I am not willing to discuss this with you. The videos summarize and expound on far more information then I could do in the same amount of time. Watching them is far better for a lay person then reading for the same amount of time. Nobody ever stated we did not evolve, yes we are always evolving, however where did the big ball in the sky come from anyway, out of nothing-ness.? Besides what do fossils and aliens have to do with each other.? If God created the world along with Man, Angels, and animals then he is in charge of the evolving of the universe. Sally |
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Oh yea of course saly, we all know satan put all dem fossil in da ground to tricks us. Satan also setup the entire genetic code so dat we would see dos fossils as telln a story of evolutionism. yea . . . JB, if you are not willing to watch the videos, I am not willing to discuss this with you. The videos summarize and expound on far more information then I could do in the same amount of time. Watching them is far better for a lay person then reading for the same amount of time. I will when I get the time. Most people can learn better from videos and being shown things but I have always preferred reading. I am looking for specific things and specific answers and I don't like wading through or sitting through a bunch of stuff I am not looking for. Thanks for your links. |
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Wed 02/04/09 08:47 AM
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Hello, I hope you dont mind me putting my 2cents in here, but with regard to the Alien encounters and or theory, is it possible it could be Satan himself decieving mankind once again regarding the creation factor by creating illusions and deceptions,after all he is a fallen angel and is Gods greatest advesary. If you support this so called evidence on alien society, why not look for an explanation on angels and demons as there is a spritual war going on as we speak in another realm. I find far more evidence to support God,creation,miracles and the meaning and purpose of us human beings just being here. What would be our meaning and purpose anyway on this planet.? Sally Sally, You call them devils or fallen angels, I call them aliens. 2000 years ago, any kind of advanced civilization would have been looked upon as gods. Any leader of these so-called 'gods' would have been jealous of the others and demanded that no other god be worshiped but him. I do indeed see the connections in Biblical legend and myth and the aliens who "fell to the earth." Yes, they were rebels and they rebelled against their administration, ruled by a draconian queen. Indeed, there is a lot of "deceit" going on in order to hide the true origins of these non-human lifeforms you call fallen angels and "Satan" who mated with human women and whose offspring were "giants among men" or "men of renown." They may even consider themselves the master race, and better than the average human. Their descendants are the royal families and the "chosen people." In the Bible they are referred to as "the sons of Cain" and spawn of the evil one. Adam and Eve were from the empire, and improved human, the others were from the rebels, from the one you call "Satan." There were two trees of alien decedents. In fact, we probably owe our culture and improved DNA to these aliens, who have been here all along. |
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