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Topic: A question for the ones who study the Bible
no photo
Thu 02/12/09 08:23 AM


I just don't understand the mentality of how anyone can follow a book that has a God who has the power to kill or murder (even his son) and then preach that we should not kill or murder.

I would rather take the example of someone who doesn't kill or murder and take his or her word for it that it is not good to do then a God that does these atrocities and then says we should not do them.

If punishment is death each time then this is exactly the mentality our forefathers had in many of the civilizations that ruled the world at its time.

Genghis Khan, Napolean, Hitler, Alexander, Julius Caeser, etc. etc.

In the long run to follow a book that contradicts itself is something hard to follow as oppose to a belief system that emphasizes on peace and actually practices it.

The time of forcing ones belief system is coming to an end hopefully as mediterrenean mythologies should have ended 1000 years ago. Hopefully our younger generations will know better.

and to tell you the truth it looks very promising for some countries.




The thing that gets me is how story after story in the bible is about God killing, or people killing/prepared to kill in the name of God. Yet we are constantly told that God is a merciful God.
It just really doesn't add up, IMO.


I think it all goes back to what abra tells everyone consistently. Many just put in their check mark on christianity but don't read or follow the bible. I forgot what that is called - new age, churchianity, or what have you.

In other words just to feel good by praising out loud and screaming Jesus, Jesus, you saved me is all they care about.

The Bible and its writings is ignored and the words that the pastor screams or says is taken wholeheartingly.

Those who actually sit and want to know the truth will always find a way to ask additional questions and ask "why".

It is no different then when Jesus actually did question the Torah at the time and when there was no definite answer he made a answer that sounded much more acceptable to create his followers.

I can just see how the Jewish members who followed the Torah and the Romans who idolized their Emperor and Gods where not happy (especially those in power) in seeing a simple man showing better ways of living in peace with each other.

In the end as history shows it (that is if you believe Jesus existed) that the Romans and the Jewish worked together in ending Jesus's enlightenment.

I also believe that humans are fascinated with the "supernatural". They want to tap into it and have some of those extraordinary feelings or abilities that they can fantasize.

I mean who wouldn't like to be able to fly like Superman or have the strength of hulk or maybe even the intelligence and mindful powers of Xaviar from X-Men.

and in hopes of getting closer to this people try to understand and fascinate themselves with religious text or mythologies. They entertain themselves with the stories.

Storytelling was a big thing in its day and of course superstition was even bigger also.

In the end as the humans evolve more will be explained of how superstition doesn't usually have good consequences.

yet nevertheless, if having faith in yourself to create inner peace helps a soul then there is nothing wrong in doing this if it doesn't harm others in the process.

With over thousands of belief systems there are certainly some that show a much more peaceful method of finding inner peace and with others then a Mediterranean mythology in which I call war religions in the end.

Just look at Norse Mythology - You have Thor with a HAMMMER or Greek Mythology - Zeus with a LIGHTNING BOLT and so forth.

Then we look at Buddhism and you have Buddha and his fat tummy laughing his ass off because he probably had a great meal and found a way to make someone laugh if not himself.

Two different idealogies that have adverse affects.

I think psychologically if you are around a more violent belief system then you will most likely be a violent person as oppose to a belief system that is peaceful and actually emphasizes on peacefullness.

Eljay's photo
Thu 02/12/09 09:21 AM



Does it say in the old or new testament of the bible that "Thou shall not kill?"

If this is to be true then why is half of the book full of stories about killing? The many wars is about killing?

If this is true then why is there a hell that will end your eternal soul? Isn't that killing?

If this is true why must Jesus die on a cross showing us death? (I know why historically and have my reasons to believe them, but would like to know why you believe this to be true concerning the contradiction to the phrase "Thou shall not kill")

and I probably missed many many more acts of killing approved by The God of Abraham that goes with the contradiction of "Thou shall not kill."


This is a earnest question for those who study the bible, for it would interest me how it is actually interperated by those who study theology.

thank you.




In the King James - the English translates into "kill". As in "Thou shalt not kill"

In the more modern versions - it is "Murder".

When one examines the English exegesis, the correct interpretation is murder, as it would be difficult to carry out the necessary sacrifices of Leviticus without "killing" a beast for it.


so thou shall not murder is the correct term. This means thou can kill if have to or confronted with no other options when defending oneself. Is this correct?


As I said - it would be correct to conclude this from the context. I'm not sure if that's saying the same thing as detemining if the correct "term" should have been "murder". It needs to be reasoned out what the writers of the King James figured, and how the intended readers would interpret it. I'm sure it does not mean kill in the broadest of terms though.

Killing in self defense is not murder. Nor is the death of innocents in war. Murder involves mallicious intent. (I know War is malicious - but War is a product of the short comings of Man, and although necessary - at least for those who are pulled into it - not what God would prefer we do.)

Eljay's photo
Thu 02/12/09 09:23 AM




Noah Ark's flood is one example?? He asked two of each species to go on this big boat and the rest shall die. He knowingly knew this would happen. Couldn't he have saved everyone? Why didn't he?

Why have Noah build the arc in the first place? I mean afterall... if he created us once couldn't he create us again? If he really wanted to start over, why not start fresh?


One more example of us not understanding God's ways.


Convenient way to explain the atrocities. Convenient also if we are to accept his own commands to kill as an act we wouldn't understand. Seems to me I 'can' understand that asking someone to kill their son is bizarre and kinda sick to ask of someone that would have done it by blind faith alone. I would dislike this god, as well as have little respect for a guy that would kill his son for his god...

Can you imagine someone telling a judge he killed his son because his god asked him to. The guy would be in prison or in a straight jacket.


If you read hte whole story - you'd know that He didn't intend Abraham to kill Isaac. Never did.

And the Guy who tells the judge he killed his son because God told him to - would say the same thing.

davidben1's photo
Thu 02/12/09 09:58 AM
a human is only in "peril" of becoming disillusioned, when it ALLOW SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF ITSELF TO TELL IT "HOW TO FEEL"???

this SETS THE MIND OF SELF AGAINST SELF, SO THEN SELF WILL LEARN BY FIRST BEING TAUGHT THIS, TO TAKE THIS APPROCH WITH ALL IT MEETS???

soon it deny and believe not itself, as it first DENIED it's own feelings as accurate, so then DEEM OTHER'S FEELINGS AS NOT HAVING MEANING, so then is now created into one deeming others as less, so then free to become many things of demise to other's???

what did anything that REEKDED MUCH EVIL ON ANOTHER "FIRST HAVE TO DO"???

first BE CONVINCED BY SOME OUTSIDE SOURCE, BEING PARENTS OR GAURDIAN OR ROLE MODEL OR TEACHER, THAT ITSELF WAS NOT "RIGHT", THEN IT CAN COME TO BE BELIEVED, THAT "OTHER'S ARE "NOT RIGHT", so them there is UNBALANCE "FIRST" IN SELF BELIEVE, TO CREATE UNBALANCE OUTSIDE OF SELF???

religions "said to be of peace", only try to tell other's how to be as GOOD AS SELF, OR AS GOOD AS THE ONE THAT FIRST MADE THE BELIEF INTO A RELIGION???

the HUMNA EMTOIONS ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY FOCUSING "IN FRONT OF THEM", AS TRYING TO "CHANGE" THEM FOCUS!!!

AND "WHY" DOES ONE WANT TO CHANGE THEM IN ANOTHER???

FOR PROTECTION OF SELF, SO THIS "FIRST MOTIVE" IS WHAT MOST DESTROY UNITY AND PEACE???

THIS IN ITSELF IS THE INSIDEOUS DISASTOR THAT "APPEAR" TO BE OF PEACE, BUT INDEED IS WHAT MAKE WAR LATER, AND THEN THIS SAME ONE BLAME IT ON OTHERS, saying they were "defective people, so made war with what self said???


please......

EACH WORD THAT COME OUT OF THE MOUTH, CREATE SOMETHING, AND WHAT IT CREATE MUST BE THE "TOTAL" REPSONSIBILITY OF THE SPEAKER, OR "WHERE" DOES THE BUCK STOP???

if any religion thus far HAD THE POTENTIAL TO CREATE PEACE, THEN IT WOULD HAVE!!!

telling and instructing another HOW IT SHOULD THINK, OR WHAT IT SHOULD DO, OR HOW IT SHOULD FEEL, IS THE VERY FIRST SUBVERTING OF ANY PEACE, BECAUSE IT FIRST CONVINCE "SELF IS DEFECTIVE"!!!

SO THEN SELF DEEM MANY, MANY, MANY, SO ALMOST ALL, AS DEFECTIVE???

the same as, IF ONE WISH TO COMMIT MURDER, NO PROBLEM, WHY DO I NEED TO TELL ANOTHER HOW THIS IS WRONG???

to only tell one the potential of what the current reality called environment, could make to HAPPEN FOR THIS MURDEREROUS ONE, is seeing the "potential murderer as equal", even though self has maybe never contemplated murder itself???

this is NOT TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO AT ALL!!!

tell other things what to do, THEN IN MANY YEARS, WHO IS "LEADING SELF WITH SELF WISDOM"???

TO TELL ANOTHER WHAT TO DO, IS TO LATER CREATE A TOTAL SOCIETY OF "FOLLOWERS", OR JUST CHILDREN THAT "CANNOT ACCESS WITH LOGICAL DEDUCTION WHAT IS MOST GOOD FOR SELF"???

the same as, telling one HOW TO DRIVE, is sheer self thinking itself is better, but simply asking a question, CAN OR COULD THIS HAPPEN, ENVOKES THE THOUGHT IN ANOTHER, THAT CREATE THEN LEARNED WISDOM???

LEARNED WISDOM IS NEVER FORGOTTEN???

THIS THEN ALLOW TRUE WISDOM WITHIN ALL THINGS TO COME FORTH EQUALLY???

the very first BIAS THAT DEEM ANOTHER AS NOT AS CAPABLE AS SELF, MAKE FOR RELIGIONS AND WARS AND VIOLENCE AND NO PEACE AND CHAOS???

if a man think it might wish to murder, and it cannot call the police department first, to find out FOR ITSELF WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT'S OWN ACTIONS MAY BE, without some retalliation as a less and crimminal, THEN THIS IS WHAT FIRST MAKE FOR A "FEARFUL SOCIETY", THAT TRY TO CONTROL WITH FORCE TO MAKE PEACE???

in other words, YOU ARE FREE TO MURDER, do as you wish, BUT THESE ARE THE GUIDLINES OF THE MAJORITY THAT WILL ALSO BE ENVOKED???

AND THIS IS ONLY DONE AS FOR THE "EQUAL" TREATMENT OF ALL"???

to create a MORAL CODE OF GOOD BEHAVIOUR, AND PREACH IT THRU EVERY MEDIUM, THAT ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT MEET IT IS "EVIL", IS TO MAKE AND PERPETUATE THE VERY BEGINNNING OF "ALL EVIL"!!!

to ask one that think self wish to murder, does ITSELF WANT TO BE MURDERED, IS ALL THAT IT TAKES???

THEN IF SELF DOES NOT WISH TO BE MURDERED, THEN THIS IS THE "ONLY REASON ONE THAT MURDERS WILL HAVE TO FACE IT'S PEERS"???

it is ****ing BIAS MOST OF "ONE'S THINKING THEY ARE OF HIGHER MORAL FIBER", SO BETTER, THAT FIRST CREATE ILLUSIONS SPOKEN THAT LATER BECOME AS EVIL MANIFESTED???

ALL ARE EQUAL, AND LAWS ARE THERE TO KEEP EQUALITY, NOT TO PROTECT GOOD PEOPLE!!!

NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE MIND NATURALLY WILL WISH "DEFENSIVE FEAR TO PROTECT SELF", these such wishes followed, and not ALL AS EQUAL NO MATTER THE ACTIONS, WILL ALWAYS CREATE MORE EVIL LATER???


















no photo
Thu 02/12/09 10:06 AM

a human is only in "peril" of becoming disillusioned, when it ALLOW SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF ITSELF TO TELL IT "HOW TO FEEL"???

this SETS THE MIND OF SELF AGAINST SELF, SO THEN SELF WILL LEARN BY FIRST BEING TAUGHT THIS, TO TAKE THIS APPROCH WITH ALL IT MEETS???

soon it deny and believe not itself, as it first DENIED it's own feelings as accurate, so then DEEM OTHER'S FEELINGS AS NOT HAVING MEANING, so then is now created into one deeming others as less, so then free to become many things of demise to other's???

what did anything that REEKDED MUCH EVIL ON ANOTHER "FIRST HAVE TO DO"???

first BE CONVINCED BY SOME OUTSIDE SOURCE, BEING PARENTS OR GAURDIAN OR ROLE MODEL OR TEACHER, THAT ITSELF WAS NOT "RIGHT", THEN IT CAN COME TO BE BELIEVED, THAT "OTHER'S ARE "NOT RIGHT", so them there is UNBALANCE "FIRST" IN SELF BELIEVE, TO CREATE UNBALANCE OUTSIDE OF SELF???

religions "said to be of peace", only try to tell other's how to be as GOOD AS SELF, OR AS GOOD AS THE ONE THAT FIRST MADE THE BELIEF INTO A RELIGION???

the HUMNA EMTOIONS ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY FOCUSING "IN FRONT OF THEM", AS TRYING TO "CHANGE" THEM FOCUS!!!

AND "WHY" DOES ONE WANT TO CHANGE THEM IN ANOTHER???

FOR PROTECTION OF SELF, SO THIS "FIRST MOTIVE" IS WHAT MOST DESTROY UNITY AND PEACE???

THIS IN ITSELF IS THE INSIDEOUS DISASTOR THAT "APPEAR" TO BE OF PEACE, BUT INDEED IS WHAT MAKE WAR LATER, AND THEN THIS SAME ONE BLAME IT ON OTHERS, saying they were "defective people, so made war with what self said???


please......

EACH WORD THAT COME OUT OF THE MOUTH, CREATE SOMETHING, AND WHAT IT CREATE MUST BE THE "TOTAL" REPSONSIBILITY OF THE SPEAKER, OR "WHERE" DOES THE BUCK STOP???

if any religion thus far HAD THE POTENTIAL TO CREATE PEACE, THEN IT WOULD HAVE!!!

telling and instructing another HOW IT SHOULD THINK, OR WHAT IT SHOULD DO, OR HOW IT SHOULD FEEL, IS THE VERY FIRST SUBVERTING OF ANY PEACE, BECAUSE IT FIRST CONVINCE "SELF IS DEFECTIVE"!!!

SO THEN SELF DEEM MANY, MANY, MANY, SO ALMOST ALL, AS DEFECTIVE???

the same as, IF ONE WISH TO COMMIT MURDER, NO PROBLEM, WHY DO I NEED TO TELL ANOTHER HOW THIS IS WRONG???

to only tell one the potential of what the current reality called environment, could make to HAPPEN FOR THIS MURDEREROUS ONE, is seeing the "potential murderer as equal", even though self has maybe never contemplated murder itself???

this is NOT TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO AT ALL!!!

tell other things what to do, THEN IN MANY YEARS, WHO IS "LEADING SELF WITH SELF WISDOM"???

TO TELL ANOTHER WHAT TO DO, IS TO LATER CREATE A TOTAL SOCIETY OF "FOLLOWERS", OR JUST CHILDREN THAT "CANNOT ACCESS WITH LOGICAL DEDUCTION WHAT IS MOST GOOD FOR SELF"???

the same as, telling one HOW TO DRIVE, is sheer self thinking itself is better, but simply asking a question, CAN OR COULD THIS HAPPEN, ENVOKES THE THOUGHT IN ANOTHER, THAT CREATE THEN LEARNED WISDOM???

LEARNED WISDOM IS NEVER FORGOTTEN???

THIS THEN ALLOW TRUE WISDOM WITHIN ALL THINGS TO COME FORTH EQUALLY???

the very first BIAS THAT DEEM ANOTHER AS NOT AS CAPABLE AS SELF, MAKE FOR RELIGIONS AND WARS AND VIOLENCE AND NO PEACE AND CHAOS???

if a man think it might wish to murder, and it cannot call the police department first, to find out FOR ITSELF WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT'S OWN ACTIONS MAY BE, without some retalliation as a less and crimminal, THEN THIS IS WHAT FIRST MAKE FOR A "FEARFUL SOCIETY", THAT TRY TO CONTROL WITH FORCE TO MAKE PEACE???

in other words, YOU ARE FREE TO MURDER, do as you wish, BUT THESE ARE THE GUIDLINES OF THE MAJORITY THAT WILL ALSO BE ENVOKED???

AND THIS IS ONLY DONE AS FOR THE "EQUAL" TREATMENT OF ALL"???

to create a MORAL CODE OF GOOD BEHAVIOUR, AND PREACH IT THRU EVERY MEDIUM, THAT ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT MEET IT IS "EVIL", IS TO MAKE AND PERPETUATE THE VERY BEGINNNING OF "ALL EVIL"!!!

to ask one that think self wish to murder, does ITSELF WANT TO BE MURDERED, IS ALL THAT IT TAKES???

THEN IF SELF DOES NOT WISH TO BE MURDERED, THEN THIS IS THE "ONLY REASON ONE THAT MURDERS WILL HAVE TO FACE IT'S PEERS"???

it is ****ing BIAS MOST OF "ONE'S THINKING THEY ARE OF HIGHER MORAL FIBER", SO BETTER, THAT FIRST CREATE ILLUSIONS SPOKEN THAT LATER BECOME AS EVIL MANIFESTED???

ALL ARE EQUAL, AND LAWS ARE THERE TO KEEP EQUALITY, NOT TO PROTECT GOOD PEOPLE!!!

NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE MIND NATURALLY WILL WISH "DEFENSIVE FEAR TO PROTECT SELF", these such wishes followed, and not ALL AS EQUAL NO MATTER THE ACTIONS, WILL ALWAYS CREATE MORE EVIL LATER???




















drinker drinker there is much wisdom to attain when one reads your posts even if it is not easy to read. It does allow you to contemplate and try to understand what you are writing, which is in my opinion good knowledge.

Peace

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