Topic: Ohioans seek to nullify Obamacare :) (good news)
msharmony's photo
Sat 10/17/09 08:14 AM
Edited by msharmony on Sat 10/17/09 08:20 AM
As an Ohioan, I dont believe this will pass. For the sentiment given by Grizzly. It is kind of like still being at home with your parents, to receive the benefits and perks, you hae to go by the house rules. Ohio , I do not believe, will forego the assistance and perks it gets from federal just to be defiant on this one little thing that , in the end, calls for everyone to have health care. It doesnt call for anyone to risk their life or limb, it just says if the feds are going to supply resources and funds for all those areas that could be avoided if people took better care of themselves , then the feds are gonna MANDATE that people do take better care by giving them incentive to do so.

I think perhaps the idea of FINES and PENALTIES (semantics again) automatically causes an uproar from people and perhaps the incentive could be better pushed through with REWARDS for those who participate. I was reluctant to the idea of having to buy car insurance, but in the end, it did no harm. I Think this mandate for health insurance will work the same way. My health is MUCH more important than my car but the bottom line is about money. I believe the laws on car insurance were passed through because all those uninsured accidents have to be paid by someone and were being passed on in costs to insured drivers. The same has happened with healthcare. The uninsured patients who receive medical help have bills which get paid SOMEHOW and guess who those costs are passed down to.....?

I think its a good idea, judging upon how the car insurance laws have turned out,, and I am hoping it goes through. There are so many uninsured and unemployed now that I dont think most will forego another option outside of the overpriced insurance companies, for the sake of denying a mandate.

I think the mood in Ohio , a mostly democratic state,, will favor health care reform.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 10:42 AM
Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.

msharmony's photo
Sun 10/18/09 10:46 AM

Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 11:18 AM


Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 11:19 AM
Fact:

Printing money taxes the poor.

Dragoness's photo
Sun 10/18/09 11:21 AM
http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/Glossary/Nullif.html

Nullification is symbolic just like secession is.

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 11:26 AM

http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/Glossary/Nullif.html

Nullification is symbolic just like secession is.


This is a very authoritarian way of looking at things...

Perhaps states lost their right after the civil war? Hmmm... Maybe it wasn't about slavery then...

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:02 PM
Glad you're learning about our fraudulent system-most don't and have blind faith in it. If you haven't, check out the economics literature available from the Mises Institute (mises.org). I think you'll find it enlightening.




Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.

msharmony's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:05 PM



Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.


Do you have faith, that left on their own accord, most americans would SHARE or HELP their neighbor,,,?

Sadly, I do not,, but perhaps that will change in time as evidence arises that people are less selfish and self righteous.

heavenlyboy34's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:06 PM

http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/Glossary/Nullif.html

Nullification is symbolic just like secession is.


Not according to Thomas Jefferson (see the Virginia Compromise and the Virginia and Kentucky Constitutions), James C. Calhoun, and James Madison. It seems history is against you, I'm afraid.

Dragoness's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:18 PM


http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/Glossary/Nullif.html

Nullification is symbolic just like secession is.


Not according to Thomas Jefferson (see the Virginia Compromise and the Virginia and Kentucky Constitutions), James C. Calhoun, and James Madison. It seems history is against you, I'm afraid.


Not even.

You need to read your history.

Dragoness's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:19 PM


http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/Glossary/Nullif.html

Nullification is symbolic just like secession is.


This is a very authoritarian way of looking at things...

Perhaps states lost their right after the civil war? Hmmm... Maybe it wasn't about slavery then...


That is when it was resolved that nullification like secession is not a valid option for states unless all states agree to it or in revolution.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:20 PM
Edited by MirrorMirror on Sun 10/18/09 02:21 PM
:smile: It horrible news because the insurance cartels already own the states. :smile: It is divide and conquer.:smile: They are paying the Ohio politicians to allow them to murder sick people with their corporate death panels:smile: Its not going to happen though because federal law trumps state law:banana:

Dragoness's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:24 PM




Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.


Do you have faith, that left on their own accord, most americans would SHARE or HELP their neighbor,,,?

Sadly, I do not,, but perhaps that will change in time as evidence arises that people are less selfish and self righteous.


Since some people will not help others because they are poor by their own fault, some will not help others because of their race or immigration status, some will not help others because they feel they deserve to suffer, etc....

No we cannot depend on people to help other people without a governing body because of prejudice.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 10/18/09 02:41 PM



Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.
:smile: There is no evidence of that being true.:smile: Every effort requires leadership.:smile: And some problems are too big for charity to solve:smile:

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 06:36 PM
I am very disappointed. Perhaps this is our problem.

I have a question though, to all those who don't think people can take care of eachother;

I the government is really by the people, for the people, then what makes you think they doing a better job of running people's lives?

Or, did we manage to elect only angels to be in charge of us, to steer people clear of their corrupt ways?

But if they were angels, they would not be of the people anymore would they?

Mirror, Dragoness, MsHarmony,... There a fatal flaw in this line of thinking. An obvious blunder of logic. Do you not see where it is?

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 06:38 PM




Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.
:smile: There is no evidence of that being true.:smile: Every effort requires leadership.:smile: And some problems are too big for charity to solve:smile:


WOW....

People are incapable, they need leaders to survive....

What happens when you masters can't afford to take care of you anymore Mirror?


MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 10/18/09 06:42 PM

I am very disappointed. Perhaps this is our problem.

I have a question though, to all those who don't think people can take care of eachother;

I the government is really by the people, for the people, then what makes you think they doing a better job of running people's lives?

Or, did we manage to elect only angels to be in charge of us, to steer people clear of their corrupt ways?

But if they were angels, they would not be of the people anymore would they?

Mirror, Dragoness, MsHarmony,... There a fatal flaw in this line of thinking. An obvious blunder of logic. Do you not see where it is?
:smile: For some problems the only solution is collective:smile:

Drivinmenutz's photo
Sun 10/18/09 06:42 PM

Glad you're learning about our fraudulent system-most don't and have blind faith in it. If you haven't, check out the economics literature available from the Mises Institute (mises.org). I think you'll find it enlightening.




Mises is one of my sources bro.drinker

Probably one of the best, most logical economists of this century.

MirrorMirror's photo
Sun 10/18/09 06:43 PM





Where i would love to see states do this left and right, i doubt it will happen because of comments made about the fed cutting state funding.

If we can rise above this our country is still free.

If states rely on federal funding it never be anymore.


Choice A, begin to help eachother out and stop living off a nanny state and become independent.

Choice B, drink the koolaid and hope to die before things start to really get bad.


I am obviously no political analyst or even a poly sci major, but I thought the government was of the people and by the people. The federal money IS our money, our taxes. So how is it when our money goes to help others, its not seen as helping each other?


Lately i have been discovering our system and how it was created.

This has become a bit of an obsession of mine.


Point A: Our money is actually bills of credit, or loans, given to us by the banks.

In fact, 90% of our currency doesn't even exist in paper form. Our wealth is based on loans, therefore 90% of our prosperity is false, in exchange to devoting our services to the bankers of the world.

Point B: Because we create this "fiat" currency, we are able to tax anyone that uses the American dollar as a base currency. Which, BTW, is the world base currency. Funny how that works huh?

When we came off the gold standard, other countries began to notice that they would lose money by trading with our currency (with us) because all we had to do, is print more money, making their money worth less. Through the devaluing of the dollar, we can allow wealth to change hands from anyone who uses our money, to anyone the Federal Reserve (which is a private bank that is backed by the federal government) chooses.

In the sixties there was talk about the world's governments turning to another form of currency, which is why there was an operation in the early 70's called the Saudi Arabian Money laundering Affair. We basically managed to convince the Saudi's to only sell their patrolium for American dollars.

As long as oil is the most "in demand" fuel in the world, the U.S. can tax everyone. Nifty huh?


Aside from these things, economies seem to prosper whenever taxes are the lowest. Allowing people to keep their money lets them buy whatever they find important, thereby giving us actual supply and demand. Do me a favor. Add up all the taxes you pay. State income tax, federal income taxes, property taxes estate tax, excise taxe, sales tax, vehicle registrations, inflation, and anything else you can think of that the state or federal government charges.

You will discover, that a person making $60,000 a year actually pays $40,000 in taxes. Funny how we complain that people can ill aford their own health insurance, or house payments, or food when uncle sam is taking most of their money. The cycle is, many people want them to do more, like make healthcare "free" which means they will need to take more tax money, making everything else more expensive. Catch 22.

Government never runs anything efficiently. They never can. This is because businesses use politics as a back door to passing laws that they can exploit. If you own a few politicians, it's easy to charge $10,000 for a hammer and walk away with a disgusting profit. Another thing to think about is the added cost to everything just from extra employees they hire. For instance: In new York city there are 6,000 buraucrats running the public education system, which educates 4/5 of the population. In the private sector, you have another system, that educates the other 1/5th that only has 28 overseers. 28x5=140 140 compared to 6,000. Kinda silly huh?

These are my problems. In the past, you used to help your neighbor. My mother gives money to a coworker or two who are struggling to make endsmeat, but actually trying. They are not on a statecare plan. Doctors used to see patients who couldn't afford their bill, and wave the charges. This still happens but it is rare since it is so easy to sue a doctor, they would be liable to lose their malpractice insurance for doing so.

In short, yes, some of the money is ours. Yes, taxes may help some people. But no, giving money to people who spend it as they see fit is not a substitution for actually getting involved with the community and helping people. That is how we achieve liberty. Giving money to powerful figures that promise to do good with it, is how we fall under tyranny.
:smile: There is no evidence of that being true.:smile: Every effort requires leadership.:smile: And some problems are too big for charity to solve:smile:


WOW....

People are incapable, they need leaders to survive....

What happens when you masters can't afford to take care of you anymore Mirror?


:smile: Yes, societies as a whole needs organization and leadership to survive.:smile: That is what I am saying:smile: