"I would like to remind you what the first man to unite the Afghan tribes, Czar Babur, said: 'Afghanistan has not been and never will be conquered, and will never surrender to anyone.' Afghans are a very freedom-loving and proud people." Now, that's an attitude we need in dealing with the criminals (politicians) in DC. Pero, alas, we are so baracho with being spoiled and comfortable, we, (mostly Liberals),insist Gov. manage our lives for us. From birth, given SSN, to death, officially recorded in the book of death.

Seems like neither Bush nor Hussein is very well read in Afghan history. They repeat it.

"The Kremlin's bloody nine-year campaign to support the Marxist government in Kabul cost the lives of more than 15,000 troops and brought the Soviet economy to its knees before its 100,000-strong army was forced into a humiliating withdrawal. (Doing the same thing, expecting different results.)


(CNN) -- A former commander of Soviet forces in Afghanistan has warned history is being repeated in the war-ravaged country as the United States and its allies become increasingly mired in an "unwinnable war."

Gen. Victor Yermakov commanded the Soviet Union's 40th army in Afghanistan from May 1982 to November 1983, one of six commanders to preside over the Soviet task force after its 1979 invasion.

The Kremlin's bloody nine-year campaign to support the Marxist government in Kabul cost the lives of more than 15,000 troops and brought the Soviet economy to its knees before its 100,000-strong army was forced into a humiliating withdrawal.

The strategy of imposing its will on Afghanistan militarily had failed in the face of an unyielding guerilla insurgency, backed ironically by U.S. money and weapons. Afghanistan had become Moscow's "Vietnam War."

Fast forward 20 years and President Obama has authorized a troop surge that will take the U.S. commitment in Afghanistan to around 100,000, bolstered by around 45,000 NATO service personnel

"We too entered Afghanistan with a large force," says Yermakov. "We came there not to conquer Afghanistan but to render international assistance to stabilize the situation there.

"But you cannot impose democracy by using force. An Afghan has agreed with you today, at gunpoint, that American democracy is the best thing in the world, just as he was once saying that the Soviet system was the best.

"But as soon as you turn around, he'll shoot you in the back and immediately forget what he was just saying.

"I would like to remind you what the first man to unite the Afghan tribes, Czar Babur, said: 'Afghanistan has not been and never will be conquered, and will never surrender to anyone.' Afghans are a very freedom-loving and proud people."

Babur was a descendent of Genghis Khan who founded the Mughal dynasty which conquered much of central Asia in the 1500s.

Asked what difference the latest troop surge will make, the 74-year-old former deputy defense minister says, "I can see only one: Obama will be more often going to the airport to pay his last respects to the [airlifted U.S.] soldiers killed in Afghanistan."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/12/01/afghanistan.soviet.lessons/index.html

what brought the Kremlin to it's knees was a billion dollars in American weapons and training for the Afghan Mujahadeen. Mostly to the Northern Alliance and Ahmad Shah Massoud (who was assasinated by Al Queda)

We are not conquering Afghanistan. Only the Taliban and Al Queda.

Obama IS trying to end the war. There are only two ways to end a war. Victory or defeat

From your experience, if you were to predict an out come, what would your prediction be?

hard to say cause there is more to it than just the Taliban and Al Queda

Afghanistan is on the border of Iran and they are mixing it up in there too

IF Pakistan continues their push against the Taliban on their side it'll help

Afghanistan is a third again bigger than Iraq and Obama is sending less troops than Bush did in his surge (which worked and is what ended the Iraq war allowing Obama to start drawing it down)

I think in the end it'll work but will prolly require more forces than he is anticipating


But I also think the war against the Jihadis is multi fronted and as soon as Afghanistan is pacified, they'll just break out somewhere else like Somalia or Sudan or Yemen. Hopefully not Indonesia. That is the largest muslim population by far and if they go fundamental we have real problems

Hypothetically, with all the conflicts and military commitments, if China and Africa were to have a falling out, do you think China invading Russia for oil would be an option they would take?