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| Topic: Bank bailouts will net taxpayers 19.5 billion | |
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What everybody seems to be missing is the banks have been taxing the American people on the front end with credit card rates and fees! They never paid the American people back the American people paid themselves back! Not to mention when all the big banks where gobbling up the samll banks for pennies on the dollar they received their assets at a bargain and now have our housing market held hostage! The bailout was wrong and the banks should have failed and when they did they would have never been able to recover the money owed to them! The money owed to them by the American people by in large! bailing them out only gave them the money to go after us and they have in full force! The banks get a free ride on the backs of the American tax payers! We paid to bail out our own creditors to collect on a good debt and we paid to clean up their bad debt! We had the banks on the ropes and all the suckers including those damn republicans that i voted for sold us down the river! Had they allowed the banks to fail the FDIC could have cleaned up the mess and what couldnt be cleaned up would have been foriegn investors losing their money or other investors!!!! But nnoooooooooooo we can't let the chinese and saudi's and wealthy lose their money so we put it on the backs of the american tax payer! Such a farse by all politicians! Almost every single one of them was in on this scandal! One only has to look at what the government allowing Lehman Brothers to fail caused. Letting Bank of America and Citigroup fail would have shut down the whole world basically.. It would have been real nasty for the American people. The FDIC would have had no clue as to where to start to clean up the mess. Foreign nations would no longer do business with the US. You don't have to use a credit card....no one forced you to sign the agreement but yourself. Free markets don't work that way... If they had allowed BofA and Citigroup (two branches of the same network) to fail... Someone else would have elbowed their way in and took over their market... Life would have gone on with a small hic-up instead of a HUGH crash that we are STILL in. So... The panic caused mistakes. The mistakes will cause another panic as the next ledge gives way a plumets the economy yet again. they saved a burning house by putting gasoline in the basement had sprinkling water on the burning timbers... What happens when the embers finaly hit the basement. I will never believe that....Wall Streeters say otherwise too. More like the New Orleans scenerio during Katrina where no one had answers. Then answer this for me: What did the financial industry learn from all of this? What was their punishment? I can guarantee the free market is far less forgiving of those that fail. The financial industry learned a lot about who they gave credit too.....and how not to make the same mistakes in the future....that's why credit is still not flowing like before and won't for a long time. Weren't the banks mainly in trouble because they were forced to carry losses on the books when actual losses on home loans due to falling real estate values had not been realized because the propetty had not been sold or foreclosed on? And certainly, the free market is far less forgiving of those that fail. However, credit and the expectation of repayment with interest is what makes the world go round. The quick repayment of the tarp funds speaks to what the banks learned about government punishment. |
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there are aprox. 90,000,000 homes at an average value of 300,000.
So lets say the mortgage on those assets is 50% borrowed money. 45,000,000 x 300,000 = 13,500,000,000,000 So thats 13.5 trillion So now the banks are holding those notes on leveraged money! So when the housing prices drop and the forclosures start hitting the bank is over stretched and they went under right? If they wanted the money from the American people why not right down the 13.5 trillion dollar investment? The actual money owed by americans? I will tell you why, because big business will not allow us off the hook! Even though they made the bad investment we have to flip the bill! They never paid the tarp money back and never will! They just increased banking costs to the American people to make up the difference! Now look at those figures once more and realize that our debt currently stands at 12 trillion and we have to pay that back and no one is gonna bail us out??????? If we had to bail them out because they where too big to fail and they really paid all the tarp money back, how about the banks take on some of that debt after all they are responsible for a portion of it due to their mismanagement! If they can pay tarp back so fast as they claim let them take on the debt! Its all a farse, kinda strange how they paid back billions and there is no money anywhere! |
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I don't see your example as being representative of the loans that got the banks in trouble. Real Estate is constantly changing hands and banks loan on market value. If the market value goes down 30% and the customer defaults the bank has already paid the money to the previous owner. The bank losses are then the decrease in value less any payments made if they can sell the property for the diminished value. The banks had far too many of these scenerios and were also being forced to carry other losses on the books that were not actual because the property hadn't been sold or foreclosed on.
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The government is losing more than $30 billion on lifelines extended to insurance giant American International Group Inc., according to Treasury data released Wednesday in an audit by the Government Accountability Office. It also is losing more than $30 billion on rescues of struggling automakers Chrysler and General Motors. Treasury says the losses are offset in part by profits earned from bank bailouts. It says the bank bailouts will net taxpayers $19.5 billion. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091209/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bailout_extension Looks like that if the Treasury had left the original intent of the bailout for bank relief only, that the taxpayers would actually made 19.5 billion dollars before expenses of administrating the program.....when has that ever happened.... It's a shame Chrysler and GM was structured as a give away from the taxpayers and not like the banks. Do you remember all the reports about the bailouts costing the taxpayers trillions in the end.....and now just three months ago the government even estimated total losses at over 350 billion and now recently states it's 200 billion less than that. How could u be that far off in three months???? Government couldn't estimate the number of eggs in a dozen..... uhmm.... it's not as simple as counting 12 objects... how would you do it? Easy to criticize when you are not doing the work.... *sigh*... $.02 
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there are aprox. 90,000,000 homes at an average value of 300,000. So lets say the mortgage on those assets is 50% borrowed money. 45,000,000 x 300,000 = 13,500,000,000,000 So thats 13.5 trillion So now the banks are holding those notes on leveraged money! So when the housing prices drop and the forclosures start hitting the bank is over stretched and they went under right? If they wanted the money from the American people why not right down the 13.5 trillion dollar investment? The actual money owed by americans? I will tell you why, because big business will not allow us off the hook! Even though they made the bad investment we have to flip the bill! They never paid the tarp money back and never will! They just increased banking costs to the American people to make up the difference! Now look at those figures once more and realize that our debt currently stands at 12 trillion and we have to pay that back and no one is gonna bail us out??????? If we had to bail them out because they where too big to fail and they really paid all the tarp money back, how about the banks take on some of that debt after all they are responsible for a portion of it due to their mismanagement! If they can pay tarp back so fast as they claim let them take on the debt! Its all a farse, kinda strange how they paid back billions and there is no money anywhere! The investments were made in good faith, the problem is people borrowed more than they could pay. I blame mortguage de-regulation that allowed "zero down" "interest only" loans. The republicans wanted to claim "more home ownership has taken place under George Bush than at any other time in american history" -- problem is, they ware not paying for them... Ultimately - people did not pay - bottom line. $.02
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there are aprox. 90,000,000 homes at an average value of 300,000. So lets say the mortgage on those assets is 50% borrowed money. 45,000,000 x 300,000 = 13,500,000,000,000 So thats 13.5 trillion So now the banks are holding those notes on leveraged money! So when the housing prices drop and the forclosures start hitting the bank is over stretched and they went under right? If they wanted the money from the American people why not right down the 13.5 trillion dollar investment? The actual money owed by americans? I will tell you why, because big business will not allow us off the hook! Even though they made the bad investment we have to flip the bill! They never paid the tarp money back and never will! They just increased banking costs to the American people to make up the difference! Now look at those figures once more and realize that our debt currently stands at 12 trillion and we have to pay that back and no one is gonna bail us out??????? If we had to bail them out because they where too big to fail and they really paid all the tarp money back, how about the banks take on some of that debt after all they are responsible for a portion of it due to their mismanagement! If they can pay tarp back so fast as they claim let them take on the debt! Its all a farse, kinda strange how they paid back billions and there is no money anywhere! The investments were made in good faith, the problem is people borrowed more than they could pay. I blame mortguage de-regulation that allowed "zero down" "interest only" loans. The republicans wanted to claim "more home ownership has taken place under George Bush than at any other time in american history" -- problem is, they ware not paying for them... Ultimately - people did not pay - bottom line. $.02 first off i agree with you about mortgage deregulation but that legislation was democrat regulation and yep not vetoed by Bush! Second of all the bank melt down that people say is so complicated is not as complicated as they say! It's quite simple in principal really! Leveraged money and assets that devalued leading to a bank collapse. the question is when the investors came to collect who should pay them? Not the American people thats who! The thought that the entire world would have collapsed is just not accurate! The monetary system is based on leveraged money thats where the real problem lies and if thats the sytem we plan on using investors need to accept their risk! So now you pay taxes to china and saudi arabia as well! They claim it to be too complicated because big business is running the show! |
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I don't see your example as being representative of the loans that got the banks in trouble. Real Estate is constantly changing hands and banks loan on market value. If the market value goes down 30% and the customer defaults the bank has already paid the money to the previous owner. The bank losses are then the decrease in value less any payments made if they can sell the property for the diminished value. The banks had far too many of these scenerios and were also being forced to carry other losses on the books that were not actual because the property hadn't been sold or foreclosed on. Some banks run what they call a credit line and run mortgages thru them and sell on the secondary market. Many other banks keep and service the debt. The purchase and selling of paper happens within hours! When everyone realized the paper was bad there where no buyers and banks where left with full credit lines and deminished assets Once this happens and they have to balance their books they end up in the red! Now they have no money, investors want their money and they cant sell the assets and can not get credit! Now credit is gridlocked cause banks are broke with nothing left to leverage! So why do the American people have to buy those assets at full price was the point! The bad loans could have been removed from their books and the money returned to their credit line! So the bank takes a loss and the government could have hired a third entity to step in and service the debt! But no we pay top dollar for the toxic assets and watch the banks raise prices on banking to make up the short fall! plus the credit is still gridlocked! We got screwed! We had the banks on the ropes and could have completely dictated terms for the american people, instead they are the ones dictating! |
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there are aprox. 90,000,000 homes at an average value of 300,000. So lets say the mortgage on those assets is 50% borrowed money. 45,000,000 x 300,000 = 13,500,000,000,000 So thats 13.5 trillion So now the banks are holding those notes on leveraged money! So when the housing prices drop and the forclosures start hitting the bank is over stretched and they went under right? If they wanted the money from the American people why not right down the 13.5 trillion dollar investment? The actual money owed by americans? I will tell you why, because big business will not allow us off the hook! Even though they made the bad investment we have to flip the bill! They never paid the tarp money back and never will! They just increased banking costs to the American people to make up the difference! Now look at those figures once more and realize that our debt currently stands at 12 trillion and we have to pay that back and no one is gonna bail us out??????? If we had to bail them out because they where too big to fail and they really paid all the tarp money back, how about the banks take on some of that debt after all they are responsible for a portion of it due to their mismanagement! If they can pay tarp back so fast as they claim let them take on the debt! Its all a farse, kinda strange how they paid back billions and there is no money anywhere! The investments were made in good faith, the problem is people borrowed more than they could pay. I blame mortguage de-regulation that allowed "zero down" "interest only" loans. The republicans wanted to claim "more home ownership has taken place under George Bush than at any other time in american history" -- problem is, they ware not paying for them... Ultimately - people did not pay - bottom line. $.02 I blame the politics involved. The housing push started under Clinton's administration where they wanted to get everyone into a home. That is what started the subprime lending. It was political pressure from both sides to lend to those that had no right in owning a home in the first place. If anything, de-regulation has made a lot of things worse. Everyone just throws that term around like they know exactly what it means and it's totally evil. Regulations have two downfalls: they are not preemptive and they greaten the void between the haves and have nots. regulation follows failure. This largely happens because when you regulate the hell out of something, you simply make it so those that know the system can game it and those that do not are left in the dark. That is how all these games get played and go around the back of regulations. By putting up a fence, you simply inspire people to look for a way around it because they know that once the find it, they'll be the only one to grab the opportunities on the other side. |
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