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| Topic: All We Are Saying, Is Give Peace A Chance | |
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Dancere: We are so protected on this land, no wars here in any living generation's lives... Sorry, but your so naive! Have you already forgotten 9/11 -- just 8 years ago??? * * * * * * * * * * * * *And there's no 100% garantee it won't happen again -- the greatest mass murder in the US history! ! ! ! ! ! ! ****************************** We are so protected? WHO ARE YOU KIDDING???  (yourself?!!) Yes, a tragic DAY in US history, indeed! You are trying to compare a tragic mass murder, and single day's event, to a protracted war of years on a society's homeland turf? Are you??? Please reach for the smelling salts ... You are far past kidding yourself! The attitude you're airing makes me truly wonder ... Perhaps more history lessons, and TIME actually spent in war torn countries would well serve here. Then, we can compare notes ... We can agree to disagree, I'm beyound confuddled and lost on your take ... Certainly, I might've exaggerated . But let me take it to the extreme: IS THERE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "a protracted war of years" AND "A DAILY (OR WEEKLY, OR MONTHLY) ACTS OF TERRORIZM? ? ? NB: I'm quite familiar with the history lessons, and TIME actually spent in war torn countries -- more than you can imagine... |
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For me there is a big difference, yes, as stated already!
That in no way means that I don't find terrorism deplorable! I do, of course, and lived w/ it for years on a daily basis. It is whole 'nother branch of warfare than that I was detailing. I find no need to reiterate my already very clear post and position, nor do I care to, thanx! Just speakin' to the OP about the opinions accruing in her thread as regarded the topic. Your position is valid to you, and means more to me when you state that there is 'some' historical frame of reference for your case. I detailed my vantage point and can only speak from that view by definition, of course! |
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Tue 12/22/09 11:57 PM
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I agree with you completely -- there's no reason of making a big argument out of nothing -- let's put an end to it...
As you (J.Lennon) correctly noted, "And in the end? The love you take, is equal to the love that you make ... " |
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Exactly! ... Now, you're talkin' in my good ear ...
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tudtTcE2Jz4 ... Two, one two three four Ev'rybody's talking about Bagism, Madism, Dragism, Shagism, Ragism, Tagism This-ism, that-ism ism ism ism All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance its goin' great Everybody's talkin' bout'ministers, sinisters, banisters and canisters, bishops and fishops and rabbis and pop eyes, and byebye, byebyes all we are saying is give peace a chance, all we are saying is give peace a chance, let me tell you now Ev'rybody's talking about Revolution, evolution, masturbation, flagellation, regulation, integrations, meditations, United Nations, Congratulations. All we are saying [keep talking] is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance Oh Lets stick to it Ev'rybody's talking about John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Tayor, Norman Mailer, Allen Ginsberg, Hare Krishna, Hare Hare Krishna All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance |
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Thanx for reminding me.... (I can see we have similar ears!)
_____________________ Always remember: When you find yourself in times of trouble, Let ma'am Marry come to thee Speaking words of wisdom -- LET IT BE... |
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Edited by
climber83
on
Wed 12/23/09 02:05 AM
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I agree, but I think its also the nature of man to rape, to seize food by force when hungry, to pee and defecate a soon as discomfort is experienced (if not in danger). Its the nature of man to form groups, and to fear and hate outsiders. I definitely agree with you massagetrade, our nature and habits obviously evolve. Philosophy and religion evolve as well. Even though our population is growing, the technological age(not sure if that's right) broadens communication and it is more likely that we can find common grounds. JaneStar1, you may be right, if we find a big enough distraction like space exploration, or serious immediate danger to the planet, the process of unity would definitely speed up. I control my dog's aggression by keeping him busy with a stick, lol |
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Exactly! ... Now, you're talkin' in my good ear ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tudtTcE2Jz4 ... Two, one two three four Ev'rybody's talking about Bagism, Madism, Dragism, Shagism, Ragism, Tagism This-ism, that-ism ism ism ism All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance its goin' great Everybody's talkin' bout'ministers, sinisters, banisters and canisters, bishops and fishops and rabbis and pop eyes, and byebye, byebyes all we are saying is give peace a chance, all we are saying is give peace a chance, let me tell you now Ev'rybody's talking about Revolution, evolution, masturbation, flagellation, regulation, integrations, meditations, United Nations, Congratulations. All we are saying [keep talking] is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance Oh Lets stick to it Ev'rybody's talking about John and Yoko, Timmy Leary, Rosemary, Tommy smothers, Bobby Dylan, Tommy Cooper, Derek Tayor, Norman Mailer, Allen Ginsberg, Hare Krishna, Hare Hare Krishna All we are saying is give peace a chance All we are saying is give peace a chance Nice
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War...
So… A quantum measurement of an event. Quantum – all of reality. Quantum link – war. Quantum event – the battle of Cain and Able. (First recorded war re the Torah.). The earth is an oblate spheroid with a mobile atmosphere. Anything that creates a disturbance within that spheroid will follow patterns (in the world of reality). In the Quantum of the spirit, war creates a negative disturbance that will also bounce about the spheroid (spiritual gravity exists). Perhaps the stories are right… We are paying for the sins of the first two fathers of man. Big difference is… The most damage they could do to the earth was a three inch gash with a rock. We however can push a button and stand what amounts to an abomination of desolation upon the earth… Wouldn’t you say its time to put childish things behind us? I ain’t quite ready for the end times. Got a whole universe to experience. |
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 ... The flutter of a butterfly's wings ... 
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There is too much profit in war for it to stop. The Federal government would have to be dissolved for this.
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There is too much profit in war for it to stop. The Federal government would have to be dissolved for this. Most governments would have to be dissolved for peace to happen... People like peace... Governments thrive off of strife. |
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I do not believe that a psychologically healthy person is striving for war, killing, raping, observing blood of one’s friends, being violently killed or tortured. Dissemination of such belief is nothing else, but pre-war propaganda. In days of peace it is a nice game to be cynical and express bizarre opinions. There are cases when the war is unavoidable, but those are much less than 50% in the human history. Social Darwinism was Gebels’ effective propaganda tool and nothing else. Napoleon killed 3 million young Frenchmen; Hitler – 9 million of Germans plus 6 million of Jews. Are you saying we are all that type? I am not.
"Fuhrer, we are on the march! Victorious Italian troops crossed the Greco-Albanian frontier at dawn today!" Benito Mussolini - (to Adolf Hitler) 28th October 1940 "A gigantic fleet... has massed in Pearl Harbor. This fleet will be utterly crushed with one blow at the very beginning of hostilities...Heaven will bear witness to the righteousness of our struggle." Rear-Admiral Ito - Chief of Staff of the Combined Fleet - November 1941 "The fruits of victory are tumbling into our mouths too quickly." Emperor Hirohito (On his Birthday) - 29th April 1942 Bumper stickers: Thoughtless war statements, propaganda or both? http://media.www.collegian.com/media/storage/paper864/news/2009/02/27/Opinion/Bumper.Stickers.Thoughtless.War.Statements.Propaganda.Or.Both-3652112.shtml |
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There is too much profit in war for it to stop. The Federal government would have to be dissolved for this. All things are possible...maybe the government won't always have the final say. We will, then we can make changes and we can start now just by vibrating at higher levels... We do ultimately control our lives, no matter what it SEEMS to be now. 
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 ... ((((((((All things are possible))))))))... ...  ...  ... ...
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Thu 12/24/09 04:18 PM
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Ladylid2012: we can make changes and we can start now just by vibrating at higher levels... We do ultimately control our lives, no matter what it SEEMS to be now. I second that... Unfortunately, my Vibrator is already set at max! (although I'm the only one controlling it -- no matter what it SEEMS to be)
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Ladylid2012: we can make changes and we can start now just by vibrating at higher levels... We do ultimately control our lives, no matter what it SEEMS to be now. I second that... Unfortunately, my Vibrator is already set at max! (although I'm the only one controlling it -- no matter what it SEEMS to be) My vibrator is shot...wore it out..my vibration however is rising and rising.. I know we only have so much control over things..still we must continue to attempt to better things. As an "older" person I have a responsibility to spread the love..teach through example. It is the younger people who will fight the good fight. Times are changing, there is a shift, more are becoming conscious and awake. That is a start, and a good sign... Can we ever really stop war? I'm not sure..I will continue to strive for that, if not for myself for the future generations, my children's children. |
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Sat 12/26/09 02:17 AM
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Well, how do you treat a neighbour who acts irresponsibly,
who disturbs the peace, who repeatedly breaks and violates all social rules of conduct, who beats up his wife and kids, etc. wtc. etc. Certainly, initially, you give him the bnefit of a doubt, you try to reason with him, and try all possible peaceful measures to engage the culprit in negotiation. Finally, your patience is over and you file an official complain... And yet, the neighbour continues in his evil ways... *Then you ask your husband to talk some sense into that neighbour... But your husband returns home with a broken hand! *Then you assemble[/ a group of concerned residents and, together, the group is trying to reason with the neighbour... Yet, all of the attempts appear to pass in vain. *Only after that you hire a group of tough guys who beat the S... (i.e.hell) out of that neighbour!!! The same happens in politics, althoughthe politicians are not as patient as you are... As I mentioned, war is the failure of diplomacy -- though, often, not your own!!! |
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Well, how do you treat a neighbour who acts irresponsibly, who disturbs the peace, who repeatedly breaks and violates all social rules of conduct, who beats up his wife and kids, etc. wtc. etc. Certainly, initially, you give him the bnefit of a doubt, you try to reason with him, and try all possible peaceful measures to engage the culprit in negotiation. Finally, your patience is over and you file an official complain... And yet, the neighbour continues in his evil ways... *Then you ask your husband to talk some sense into that neighbour... But your husband returns home with a broken hand! *Then you assemble[/ a group of concerned residents and, together, the group is trying to reason with the neighbour... Yet, all of the attempts appear to pass in vain. *Only after that you hire a group of tough guys who beat the S... (i.e.hell) out of that neighbour!!! The same happens in politics, althoughthe politicians are not as patient as you are... As I mentioned, war is the failure of diplomacy -- though, often, not your own!!! Well, I cannot agree more with that. How do neighbors treat a drunken sailor who shoots them because “he can” (i.e., the sailor has a gun and the neighbors do not)? -- Neighbors unite, and buy guns, and eventually shoot down the drunken sailor. [Germany and Japan were such “sailors” in the WWII.] In addition, military over-expenditures are not healthy for national economy: it either requires people’s economic sacrifices (which Americans willingly accepted during the WWII, because the war defended our country) or leads to an economy crisis. Any nation has two sectors of its national economy: (1) the War Economy funded via taxation and government borrowings and (2) the Value Creating Economy that provides Supply matching Demand from population and private businesses. The Value Creating Economy pays taxes to the government and does not consume tax money. If the War Economy exceeds certain proportion of the Value Creating Economy, this disproportion will break normal economic relations. For example, price bulbs (like overpriced real estate) burst (and we observe massive foreclosures); expectations of corporate profitability become moot and stocks (including pension savings) go down. [To be fair we must say that the reasonably proportionate War Economy prevents the crisis of overproduction (like the one in 1920’s-1930’s). Also if products of the War Economy are sold overseas, such sales contribute to the Value Creating Economy.] |
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Edited by
JaneStar1
on
Sat 12/26/09 06:53 PM
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JaneStar1: Well, how do you treat a neighbour who acts irresponsibly, who disturbs the peace, who repeatedly breaks and violates all social rules of conduct, who beats up his wife and kids, etc. wtc. etc. Certainly, initially, you give him the bnefit of a doubt, you try to reason with him, and try all possible peaceful measures to engage the culprit in negotiation. Finally, your patience is over and you file an official complain... And yet, the neighbour continues in his evil ways... *Then you ask your husband to talk some sense into that neighbour... But your husband returns home with a broken hand! *Then you assemble[/ a group of concerned residents and, together, the group is trying to reason with the neighbour... Yet, all of the attempts appear to pass in vain. *Only after that you hire a group of tough guys who beat the S... (i.e.hell) out of that neighbour!!! The same happens in politics, although the politicians are not as patient as you are... As I mentioned, war is the failure of diplomacy -- though, often, not your own!!! *--- LavishV1200: Well, I cannot agree more with that. How do neighbors treat a drunken sailor who shoots them because “he can” (i.e., the sailor has a gun and the neighbors do not)? -- Neighbors unite, and buy guns, and eventually shoot down the drunken sailor. [Germany and Japan were such “sailors” in the WWII.] In addition, military over-expenditures are not healthy for national economy: it either requires people’s economic sacrifices (which Americans willingly accepted during the WWII, because the war defended our country) or leads to an economy crisis. Any nation has two sectors of its national economy: (1) the War Economy funded via taxation and government borrowings and (2) the Value Creating Economy that provides Supply matching Demand from population and private businesses. The Value Creating Economy pays taxes to the government and does not consume tax money. If the War Economy exceeds certain proportion of the Value Creating Economy, this disproportion will break normal economic relations. For example, price bulbs (like overpriced real estate) burst (and we observe massive foreclosures); expectations of corporate profitability become moot and stocks (including pension savings) go down. [To be fair we must say that the reasonably proportionate War Economy prevents the crisis of overproduction (like the one in 1920’s-1930’s). Also if products of the War Economy are sold overseas, such sales contribute to the Value Creating Economy.] Then, in general, you seem to agree with me regarding the necessity of war -- at least in certain cases)! I that case, I don't comprehend what was the useless rhetoric of your previous message -- the one that preceded my example about neighbours -- where you stated (like a real peacenic): I do not believe that a psychologically healthy person is striving for war, killing, raping, observing blood of one’s friends, being violently killed or tortured. Dissemination of such belief is nothing else, but pre-war propaganda. In days of peace it is a nice game to be cynical and express bizarre opinions. There are cases when the war is unavoidable, but those are much less than 50% in the human history. Social Darwinism was Gebels’ effective propaganda tool and nothing else. **************** I do not intend to advocate for war! Nevertheless, until the world progressed to another (higher) stage of conscience, a war (or all sorts of mass "artificial" epidemies) would remain the most widely used remedies for world's ills... 
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I said, “There are cases when the war is unavoidable,” for example defending our country, defending interests of our country, protecting those who need and ask for help. At the same time, if anybody starts a war w/o any reason, that person is a psychopathic criminal. What part of the above you do not understand?
I would prefer to sound like a “peacenic” than a belligerent sociopath. You say you “do not intend to advocate for war!” and … until the world progressed to another (higher) stage of conscience, a war (or all sorts of mass "artificial" epidemies) would remain the most widely used remedies for world's ills... Are you saying that we all are apes incapable to determine our destiny? [Sometimes results of our presidential elections support such statement.] “Higher stage of our conscience” depends on us now and always. It is our choice either (1) to think logically, independently, and wisely or (2) fall in mental slavery of repeating propaganda that slave masters has cooked. Democracy’s prerequisite is smart people; otherwise Democracy is useless. There are peoples who prefer living in prison camps. -- That is not the American way. If you refer to the problem of overpopulation, the remedies for it are contraceptives and education (not wars). |
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