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| Topic: Spank or no Spank? happier children or smarter children? | |
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Check out these two 'studies' meant to give parents some more one size fits all advice of how to raise children
1)Study: Spanked Children Happier, More Successful A study of 2,600 people conducted by psychology professor Marjorie Gunnoe of Calvin College, Michigan, has found that people spanked as young children are happier, more likely to volunteer, do well in school, and go to university. Politicians and children's groups in the UK have claimed that smacking is abuse and have tried to criminalise it due to alleged long term harm. Gunnoe found that clear behavioural problems only seem to develop if spanking continues into adolescence. "The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data. I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool," said Gunnoe. 2)Study: Spanking Can Lower IQ NBC Newschannel Published: September 25, 2009 Spanking your children may do more than just sting their bottom, according to a new study. A University of New Hampshire professor says his research shows children who are spanked have lower IQ’s. The study tested the IQ’s of a group of 806 children ages 2 to 4 and 704 children ages 5 to 9. Both groups were retested four years later. The kids who were spanked had IQ’s that were 3 to 5 points lower than kids who weren’t spanked. More frequent spanking was associated with lower IQ’s. The professor also believes spanking can become a stress point for some children that causes an increase in post-traumatic-stress-like symptoms So what say you,, would you rather raise children to be happy adults or smart kids? or would you rather people stop enforcing some idea that there is a one size fits all way to raise children.... |
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Edited by
msharmony
on
Wed 03/03/10 12:01 AM
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This was my reply
I was spanked, I had no iq issues. Spanking taught me consequences. I was given the rules ahead of time and the consequences for each broken rule. I was taught a strong sense of CHOICE and consequence for choice and as an Adult I feel it did wonders to prepare me for the world. For example, If I lied to my parents, i was gonna get a spanking. So on the occasion that i lied,, guess what happened? I was reminded that I had made the choice(which I had) and I remembered after that to not make that choice again. My parents were consistent and I learned I could trust what they said. The balance of this was, when I got straight A's I could pick my favorite restaurant to go to. Each grading period, my parents followed through and took me where I wanted to go. They were consistent,,whether my choices were good or bad and I learned to make more and more good choices and fewer and fewer bad. As to the common argument that you cant spank an adult,,,so what. We also are not allowed to confine an adult to a room against their will, its called kidnapping. With children its called being grounded. We are not allowed to discipline adults in any way actually, only the law can and they sometimes beat, imprison or even kill as a consequence for broken laws. As a child there were laws of the house and consequences for breaking them, just like in society. The more UNDESIRABLE the consequence the less likely the offense, just like in society. There is a difference between parents with their children and adults with other adults and the difference is WE are responsible for what our kids do and what happens to them and adults are responsible for themself. We are the ‘justice’ system of our home. We need to provide real incentive and reward for good choices and real undesirable consequences for bad ones. As long as there is the balance of both discipline and positive reinforcement,and love, there is no reason for children not to do just fine. On a sidenote, spanking is not for every child, some respond to other forms of discipline much better. I wouldnt look down on those who find other ways to discipline children which work for them and have the equal wish that others dont look down on what works in MY family. |
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Edited by
IndigoIllusions
on
Wed 03/03/10 12:10 AM
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Well, I consistantly had torment and abuse as a kid,
and I retained an IQ of mid 140's, raised three happy, beautiful, wonderful children, own my own business, it made me know what NOT to do and make sure that they always felt loved, needed, and appreciated. You hear a lot of individuals taking themselves from a bad/difficult childhood into a happy, productive, well-adjusted, successful adult life. Then there are the ones that came from the "don't look at them wrong" side that wind up as screwed up as possible, so I say it's a personal choice for each individual, but know the lines and don't cross them. There is a BIG difference between punishment and abuse. They need rules, guidelines, and consequences...but they also need love, encouragement, and shownhow to grow in a positive environment that they can pass on. |
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so true, life is all about balance...
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eye waz spancked whin I wasa child And I has dids goood ins scool.I haz hihg IQ
 
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that people spanked as young children are happier, more likely to volunteer, do well in school, and go to university More frequent spanking was associated with lower IQ’s. I'm just making an observation here, but these two studies do not contradict each other. Its easy to imagine data sets which would fit both of these criteria, and even fit a trend in which 'having lower IQs' means doing less well in school and not going to the university. |
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that people spanked as young children are happier, more likely to volunteer, do well in school, and go to university More frequent spanking was associated with lower IQ’s. I'm just making an observation here, but these two studies do not contradict each other. Its easy to imagine data sets which would fit both of these criteria, and even fit a trend in which 'having lower IQs' means doing less well in school and not going to the university. oh I know they dont contradict each other they just focus on different characteristics. One is a study, apparently, on spanking and future happiness in life. The other is a study on spanking and childhood IQ. Kind of implies that if you spank children they will grow up happier but they will not be as smart in school as the other children. So what is the better endorsement: The pro spanking study suggesting it creates happier adults or the anti spanking study suggesting it lowers a child's IQ? |
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Edited by
redonkulous
on
Wed 03/03/10 05:15 PM
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I have not read these studies, I do not know what controls where put in place, I do not know the sample size, nor really anything about these studies.
But let me say that studies based on complex issues are linear in nature and do not capture the truth in and of themselves. For complex topics it takes many well designed studies and then a meta analysis must be done to merge the data, or a few very large studies with strict controls in place. There is NO ethical way to create such a large and well controlled trial on human beings. That being said, my personal anecdote follows. My parents tried to discipline me, but I was far too strong willed to give a crap about a little swat. At age 10 I was 5'9 150 ilbs and my dad was smart enough to know that I would take whatever punishment was coming and continue to do what I wanted, when I wanted. My parents are very intelligent people, they knew spanking was not going to work to discipline me nor my brother, even at really young ages, 3,4,5,6 we where more likely to pretend and then find a way to do what we wanted (I still remember every year of my early life me and my brother getting together before Christmas to go on a gift hunt and find our presents stash point, open them and then hide the evidence). We where tuff and savvy kids and it would have taken near death by beating or worse to change our behavior through physical punishments. So instead they appealed to our intelligence and our fierce strong willed determination. They set many small goals we could achieve to receive rewards that we wanted. Failure to achieve the goals set you back on getting what you wanted. I worked for my dads company from age 12, and worked hard to get the things I wanted, paid for with my own sweat. THESE where the things that shaped us into good kids, no threat of violence could do for us what respect and reward created. Honestly this has created in me the idea that only the ignorant, emotionally incapable and unimaginative resort to physical violence when a situation is not already physical in nature. (Dont get me wrong I deserved the slaps I got, but I think those where only the points of frustration where my parents could not control their emotions, it was not the moments where good parenting happened, it achieved nothing and only set back progress they had made with more intellectual approaches.) Edit: I also train dogs for a living, and I think resorting to physical punishment is completely counter productive. _X_ |
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I have not read these studies, I do not know what controls where put in place, I do not know the sample size, nor really anything about these studies. But let me say that studies based on complex issues are linear in nature and do not capture the truth in and of themselves. For complex topics it takes many well designed studies and then a meta analysis must be done to merge the data, or a few very large studies with strict controls in place. There is NO ethical way to create such a large and well controlled trial on human beings. That being said, my personal anecdote follows. My parents tried to discipline me, but I was far too strong willed to give a crap about a little swat. At age 10 I was 5'9 150 ilbs and my dad was smart enough to know that I would take whatever punishment was coming and continue to do what I wanted, when I wanted. My parents are very intelligent people, they knew spanking was not going to work to discipline me nor my brother, even at really young ages, 3,4,5,6 we where more likely to pretend and then find a way to do what we wanted (I still remember every year of my early life me and my brother getting together before Christmas to go on a gift hunt and find our presents stash point, open them and then hide the evidence). We where tuff and savvy kids and it would have taken near death by beating or worse to change our behavior through physical punishments. So instead they appealed to our intelligence and our fierce strong willed determination. They set many small goals we could achieve to receive rewards that we wanted. Failure to achieve the goals set you back on getting what you wanted. I worked for my dads company from age 12, and worked hard to get the things I wanted, paid for with my own sweat. THESE where the things that shaped us into good kids, no threat of violence could do for us what respect and reward created. Honestly this has created in me the idea that only the ignorant, emotionally incapable and unimaginative resort to physical violence when a situation is not already physical in nature. (Dont get me wrong I deserved the slaps I got, but I think those where only the points of frustration where my parents could not control their emotions, it was not the moments where good parenting happened, it achieved nothing and only set back progress they had made with more intellectual approaches.) Edit: I also train dogs for a living, and I think resorting to physical punishment is completely counter productive. _X_ It worked so it was good. For us, spanking worked and it was good. |
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This keeps coming up and people keep justifying hitting their children...it's bullshiit! And we wonder why we are such a violent society and children fight at school.
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This keeps coming up and people keep justifying hitting their children...it's bullshiit! And we wonder why we are such a violent society and children fight at school. I would never advocate hitting a child, just as I would never advocate forcing an adult to stay in a room against their will. I only advocate for Discipline of children in ways that work to teach them the lessons they need in life. When I speak of spankings, My parents never hit me anywhere as one would hit an adult, never punched me or slapped me either. What I got were swats on a well padded behind that didnt even leave bruises besides the ones on my ego which mended pretty quickly. |
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I have not read these studies, I do not know what controls where put in place, I do not know the sample size, nor really anything about these studies. But let me say that studies based on complex issues are linear in nature and do not capture the truth in and of themselves. For complex topics it takes many well designed studies and then a meta analysis must be done to merge the data, or a few very large studies with strict controls in place. There is NO ethical way to create such a large and well controlled trial on human beings. That being said, my personal anecdote follows. My parents tried to discipline me, but I was far too strong willed to give a crap about a little swat. At age 10 I was 5'9 150 ilbs and my dad was smart enough to know that I would take whatever punishment was coming and continue to do what I wanted, when I wanted. I'm confused. Your profile says that you are 5'5". |
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This keeps coming up and people keep justifying hitting their children...it's bullshiit! And we wonder why we are such a violent society and children fight at school. I would never advocate hitting a child, just as I would never advocate forcing an adult to stay in a room against their will. I only advocate for Discipline of children in ways that work to teach them the lessons they need in life. When I speak of spankings, My parents never hit me anywhere as one would hit an adult, never punched me or slapped me either. What I got were swats on a well padded behind that didnt even leave bruises besides the ones on my ego which mended pretty quickly. I know. This has come up before. I am aware of your views on this subject...hitting it hitting, the reason for it matters not to the one being hit. My view on this is that there is never a reason for a bigger, stronger person to hit a smaller, weaker person...period! I'll gracefully remove myself from this banter..nothing anyone will say here will change my feelings on this matter. |
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Respect and peace. I am grateful to my parents for the balance of discipline and love I was given. I dont know if there is ever a reason to handcuff a person or lock them in a room against their will but this is the justice of the real world,,it aint pretty. I learned that consequences involve more than a stern talking to and I feel I was well prepared for the world because of it. The thought of losing freedoms (being incarcerated) is a deterrent for many adults and the thought of my hide being tanned was a deterrent for me(mixed with the thought of dissapointing my parents).
I dont think its a one size fits all,,but I do think there is a big difference between hitting and spanking, its like the difference between suffocating and hugging,,same actions with much less intensity and much different motivations. |
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After a coupla spankings.(and I turned out MORE than fine!)
all pops had to do was.. Gimme that look (and I got plenty of em boy)... And Tammy straightened her act up REAL fast!!!! I LOVE YOU POPS. RIP DADDY!!!! 
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After a coupla spankings.(and I turned out MORE than fine!) all pops had to do was.. Gimme that look (and I got plenty of em boy)... And Tammy straightened her act up REAL fast!!!! I LOVE YOU POPS. RIP DADDY!!!! my father passed too, I second your sentiment. I can count on one hand how many spankings I had, but they were effective in teaching me about choices and following instructions. If people are spanking kids their whole lives, they miss the point and it isnt working. Once that initial respect was there, like you, all that was necessary was the 'look' and I knew the folks meant business and my choice was to straighten up right quick or deal with the very negative consequence... |
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oh I know they dont contradict each other they just focus on different characteristics. I didn't mean to imply otherwise - my comment wasn't intended for any context other than itself. Kind of implies that if you spank children they will grow up happier but they will not be as smart in school as the other children. Well I don't really believe we can generalize meaningfully from these studies. But if I was given a choice between being smarter or happier, I would choose happier. This is also what I would choose for my loved ones. This is not an endorsement of spanking, since I don't have confidence in the studies. |
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My daughter knows a lot for her age. Whenever she does something wrong, I spank her. It makes me sad, but it is how children learn right from wrong. I personally think spanking has nothing to do with how smart they are. Spanking HELPS them learn.
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My daughter knows a lot for her age. Whenever she does something wrong, I spank her. It makes me sad, but it is how children learn right from wrong. I personally think spanking has nothing to do with how smart they are. Spanking HELPS them learn. It helped me and my siblings, but I dont think it is the ONLY way. My strong belief is there is not a one size fits all discipline for children,, different children respond to different things. Grounding me would have never worked because I always enjoyed my own company and had a good imagination. Same thing with taking away toys or privileges. What I DID respond to was physical discomfort,,lol,, so for me spanking worked quite well. |
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I've seen what hitting children can do, and none of it is positive.
It turns a lot of them into angry, abusive adults. JMO |
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