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| Topic: How much influence do we really have? | |
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Subject #1 When it comes to my family’s example; my parents relationship, the religious influence I was raised under, I would say that I kept the good and ditched the bad.
There was much to admire in the sacrifices my parent made for us in terms of providing their children a safe home, a good education and a comfortable lifestyle. There were also plenty of examples, most behavioral, that showed me what does NOT result in a happy, healthy and supportive partnership. When it came to religion, I’m glad for the thorough education, as without it I may have never realized the contradictions, irrationalities and political drive I see behind them (religions) all. Yeah, that one backfired on them. Anyway, ALL those influences, good or bad have played a huge part in the paths I’ve chosen and the manner in which I now lead my life. Because of them, I am free of the cages of irrational dogmas, and have never experienced a bad relationship. Subject #2 I chose my relationships very, very carefully, with the priority of only allowing good influences into my life. Hopefully, I have influenced, in as positive a manner, the men I’ve partnered with as much as they have me. While I don’t always agree or understand all of their opinions or beliefs, they have known and respected me enough not to try to coerce me to their thinking on issues we differ greatly. Likewise, to each their own, I don’t expect a partner to be my clone of mind, and rather enjoy the experiences their differences bring to the relationship. So, influenced, yes....forced to bend to another’s will...no. So, the influences I take from one relationship only make a wiser and more rounded next relationship. |
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? interesting thoughts athena. on subject #1; i do try and live by the principals my parents and their generation lived by, after all they did create strong family bonds and more often than not, lasted a lifetime. they created a sense of pride and personal responsibilities which, as i see it, does not seem to be happening with the current generations. they knew thing would not always be easy ( for better or worse ) and were willing to stick with it out of commitment and love for each other. on subject #2; with the ever increasing divorce rate ( or relationship break ups ) it seems very little. to me it seems like a constant battle, my way or the highway syndrome. people now a days think it is always suppose to be easy and when the least bit of difficulties arise, they head for the door. in both subject matters, you will have the exceptions from time to time, kind of like the exception to the rules thing. I love how you describe your families history, as these are the way things used to be... and I am curious to discover if very many people carry on their family traditions, or let them fall by the wayside in our modern times... So, what I think I hear you saying is that there is no room for compromise anymore... now that women expect to be treated equally in all things, neither partner is willing to give in and take the lesser position of follower? So a stand off can eventually lead to break ups... yes, it does seem compromise has become a dirty 4 letter word .... lol i don't think it can, could or should be blamed all on equality since equality is a good thing and was ( is ) much needed in a fair society. the term " individuality " is more of the culprit the way i see this issue and couple that with equality we now see people unable, unwilling to form lasting bonds as couples. maybe it is a learning curve several generations will have to endure before we are able to become long term couples again where compromising isn't seen as being the weaker person but as a way to be a loving couple striving towards common goals and future ?!? also, maybe more time in the " courting " stage, learning about each others wants, needs and beliefs, before trying to forge long term goals ?!?! might be difficult in our time of " instant " gratification .... idk I really don't see a few generations being able to repair the loss of gender identity... if for no other reason than the Scriptures tells us that "in the last days "true love will wax cold"... if you give credence to that theory... and yes I agree, the "courting stage" is vital in its ability to help us make healthier personal decisions... you may be right on that, maybe a few hundred generations .... lol but you do not have to " lose " your gender identity to achieve equality although it does seem some so called " thinkers " are trying to make things gender neutral by eliminating certain words for our vocabulary and long standing behaviors that seem more natural than of a nurtured variety. ( in Europe more so than here but coming to a city near you if things continue ) we could easily embrace our natural difference while achieving equality. at least i believe so, imho ! not going to get into the religious aspects of this. I'm more of an agnostic/spiritual type, raised catholic person. i will say, there are many scriptures that do seem to be baring fruit. like they say, " there are no atheist's on their death beds " ... lol When you say natural difference, do you refer to my handing you the jar of mayonnaise to open because my amount of strength couldn't break the seal? |
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I wish I had a real answer for you on this one. I'm not certain I do, but I can relate a tale: Question #1 While the influence of my parent wasn't ever a problem, my mother was always just happy to see me dating someone, I do remember the influence of my grandfather taking sway once. I had brought home the young lady I was dating my sophomore year in college to meet the family. She was a nice enough person, and to this day we are still friends and speak at least three times a year, so I can say I had some affection for this lovely young lady. Grandpa though, he saw something else. I say this because he pulled me aside and told me that I really shouldn't keep stringing along a girl I didn't love. That "an affair is alright when your young," but that I should find someone I "really loved." I took his advice, and broke off the romance shortly after, though I will admit that she made it easy to do when I found her in bed with another man, but in truth he was right - I was just content to be with someone, anyone, at the time. Question #2 I really don't feel I have the "real world experience" to answer this question with any certainty. For starters, I'm a throwback to a by-gone era when a man did whatever was necessary to make his partner happy. I've often felt that I've been lucky, on the few occasions when I had someone in my life, that we seemed to have the same desires and our actions rarely conflicted. However, when they did, I swallowed my pride, curbed my own wishes and opted to do as my significant other desired. I'm sure she did the same for me, but just in unspoken ways as well. Isn't sacrificing the desires of the self to put the desires of another ahead of yours what it's all about? oh yes, when a young man is serious about a woman he brings her home to get the hand of, or the finger, from his family...  so I'm glad your grandfather softened the blow for you before your friend decided to find another partner... just curious... did you ever reveal your grandfather's advice to your girlfriend before she cheated on you? To me, yes... genuine love naturally evokes a genuine and willing sacrifice, with a happy heart...  No, that conversation was just between my grandfather and I... well and of course you good people here, but I trust you won't say anything.  Never, my lips are sealed.. no one will ever get anything out of me... no matter the form of torture... 
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? #1 - I chose contrast as they were abusive. Knowing how it felt I could not do that to my children. #2 - I try to please my partner. That is my greatest happiness, knowing I made my partner happy. |
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Subject #1 When it comes to my family’s example; my parents relationship, the religious influence I was raised under, I would say that I kept the good and ditched the bad. There was much to admire in the sacrifices my parent made for us in terms of providing their children a safe home, a good education and a comfortable lifestyle. There were also plenty of examples, most behavioral, that showed me what does NOT result in a happy, healthy and supportive partnership. When it came to religion, I’m glad for the thorough education, as without it I may have never realized the contradictions, irrationalities and political drive I see behind them (religions) all. Yeah, that one backfired on them. Anyway, ALL those influences, good or bad have played a huge part in the paths I’ve chosen and the manner in which I now lead my life. Because of them, I am free of the cages of irrational dogmas, and have never experienced a bad relationship. Subject #2 I chose my relationships very, very carefully, with the priority of only allowing good influences into my life. Hopefully, I have influenced, in as positive a manner, the men I’ve partnered with as much as they have me. While I don’t always agree or understand all of their opinions or beliefs, they have known and respected me enough not to try to coerce me to their thinking on issues we differ greatly. Likewise, to each their own, I don’t expect a partner to be my clone of mind, and rather enjoy the experiences their differences bring to the relationship. So, influenced, yes....forced to bend to another’s will...no. So, the influences I take from one relationship only make a wiser and more rounded next relationship. Regarding #1.. I can truly appreciate your closing statement... as this is the trend that I see each new generation taking... out with the old, in with the new... Regarding #2... I completely agree with the transference of influence... and the ability to grow more enlightened by the acceptance of our differences... you're a delight to read, Cynderella. thank you for sharing with us... 
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? #1 - I chose contrast as they were abusive. Knowing how it felt I could not do that to my children. #2 - I try to please my partner. That is my greatest happiness, knowing I made my partner happy. I understand... and thank you for sharing, hippie... I enjoy getting to know you better...
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I have just started controlling everyone on this planet!!!  sweety you need to come up out of the basement lab now and again.... 
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? well. I am not part of a couple, but when I was I usually listened to my partner, but I made my own decisions. Some of my values were influenced by that relationship at the time as it was rather long term but mostly now I've become much more my own person. my mother is deceased and my father is remarried. my parents were very influential of course. Someone who is raised at home by their parents will be influenced. That's natural. Nonetheless, probably because of the culture of a small Quaker college town, I was an independent thinker from an early age. I was also a kid in the late 60s early 70s and heavily influenced by the anti war movement (in a college town rememebr), and by the civil rights movement before that. Both of my parents were deeply involved in our church and the civil rights movement. This part of them has stayed with me in terms of becoming a strong core value that I am proud of and feel deeply indebted to them for. My mom was a teacher, a drama coach and an actress in Little Theatre. As a teacher her favorite students were the ones who were a little different who she could bring a different way of thinking to with her english lit. classes. this influenced me profoundly as thru her I learned to value difference, that it is OK to be different, and we do not have to be cookie cutter copies of each other to "belong." We did not always get along. She vallued difference in everyone else but me. That influenced me also and in a strange way I thank her for it because I have vowed to accept my children "as is," and I always have. Her kindness and charity to others, mostly thru church was also very influential. My dad was very influential. He taught me a sense of responsilbility and right and wrong. He taught to stand up and fight for what I believe in. He taught me that no person should be judged by the color of their skin, their gender, or their socio economic status. My work ethic and core values come from him. My love of music comes principally from my dad and I will always be grateful. He was a fan of lower east side rebop and jazz & swing. How many kids got to grow up listening to Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald and Dave Brubeck, June Christy. We also did not get along that well. he did not take well to my involvement in counter culture mvmnt of the 60s. Again in a way I thank him because it made me more determined to stay close to my kids, and I have mostly suceeded with that. this is probably my longest post on record anywhere, but I have really enjoyed this athenarose. thankyou for the opportunity to ponder these things!
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Yes my parents hold sway; they were married for 43 years until my mother passed away and my father became a widower. Our family was very close and I know what a loving family life is.
When I grew up, I wanted this for my life. I still believe in Love first! I have known couples that have very good marriages, partnerships and loving friendships. I believe when a man and woman become a "couple" they should always respect one another. Love and Respect holds a couple together.
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I have just started controlling everyone on this planet!!! sweety you need to come up out of the basement lab now and again.... 
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Edited by
AthenaRose2
on
Wed 02/27/13 12:47 PM
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? well. I am not part of a couple, but when I was I usually listened to my partner, but I made my own decisions. Some of my values were influenced by that relationship at the time as it was rather long term but mostly now I've become much more my own person. my mother is deceased and my father is remarried. my parents were very influential of course. Someone who is raised at home by their parents will be influenced. That's natural. Nonetheless, probably because of the culture of a small Quaker college town, I was an independent thinker from an early age. I was also a kid in the late 60s early 70s and heavily influenced by the anti war movement (in a college town rememebr), and by the civil rights movement before that. Both of my parents were deeply involved in our church and the civil rights movement. This part of them has stayed with me in terms of becoming a strong core value that I am proud of and feel deeply indebted to them for. My mom was a teacher, a drama coach and an actress in Little Theatre. As a teacher her favorite students were the ones who were a little different who she could bring a different way of thinking to with her english lit. classes. this influenced me profoundly as thru her I learned to value difference, that it is OK to be different, and we do not have to be cookie cutter copies of each other to "belong." We did not always get along. She vallued difference in everyone else but me. That influenced me also and in a strange way I thank her for it because I have vowed to accept my children "as is," and I always have. Her kindness and charity to others, mostly thru church was also very influential. My dad was very influential. He taught me a sense of responsilbility and right and wrong. He taught to stand up and fight for what I believe in. He taught me that no person should be judged by the color of their skin, their gender, or their socio economic status. My work ethic and core values come from him. My love of music comes principally from my dad and I will always be grateful. He was a fan of lower east side rebop and jazz & swing. How many kids got to grow up listening to Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald and Dave Brubeck, June Christy. We also did not get along that well. he did not take well to my involvement in counter culture mvmnt of the 60s. Again in a way I thank him because it made me more determined to stay close to my kids, and I have mostly suceeded with that. this is probably my longest post on record anywhere, but I have really enjoyed this athenarose. thankyou for the opportunity to ponder these things! Sweetestgirl… coming to know you through your family history takes me back to my own… and how you remind me about what, and by whom I was most influenced too, and the journey you’ve taken in life allows me to see that my own wasn’t so vastly different… I’m the one who is honored that you feel comfortable enough to take this opportunity to open up and share your self with us in this way… your willingness to speak illuminatingly is to be admired… 
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Edited by
AthenaRose2
on
Wed 02/27/13 12:52 PM
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Yes my parents hold sway; they were married for 43 years until my mother passed away and my father became a widower. Our family was very close and I know what a loving family life is. When I grew up, I wanted this for my life. I still believe in Love first! I have known couples that have very good marriages, partnerships and loving friendships. I believe when a man and woman become a "couple" they should always respect one another. Love and Respect holds a couple together. 43 years.. wow... I agree that love and respect are the key to making a relationship work smoothly...
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? well. I am not part of a couple, but when I was I usually listened to my partner, but I made my own decisions. Some of my values were influenced by that relationship at the time as it was rather long term but mostly now I've become much more my own person. my mother is deceased and my father is remarried. my parents were very influential of course. Someone who is raised at home by their parents will be influenced. That's natural. Nonetheless, probably because of the culture of a small Quaker college town, I was an independent thinker from an early age. I was also a kid in the late 60s early 70s and heavily influenced by the anti war movement (in a college town rememebr), and by the civil rights movement before that. Both of my parents were deeply involved in our church and the civil rights movement. This part of them has stayed with me in terms of becoming a strong core value that I am proud of and feel deeply indebted to them for. My mom was a teacher, a drama coach and an actress in Little Theatre. As a teacher her favorite students were the ones who were a little different who she could bring a different way of thinking to with her english lit. classes. this influenced me profoundly as thru her I learned to value difference, that it is OK to be different, and we do not have to be cookie cutter copies of each other to "belong." We did not always get along. She vallued difference in everyone else but me. That influenced me also and in a strange way I thank her for it because I have vowed to accept my children "as is," and I always have. Her kindness and charity to others, mostly thru church was also very influential. My dad was very influential. He taught me a sense of responsilbility and right and wrong. He taught to stand up and fight for what I believe in. He taught me that no person should be judged by the color of their skin, their gender, or their socio economic status. My work ethic and core values come from him. My love of music comes principally from my dad and I will always be grateful. He was a fan of lower east side rebop and jazz & swing. How many kids got to grow up listening to Benny Goodman, Ella Fitzgerald and Dave Brubeck, June Christy. We also did not get along that well. he did not take well to my involvement in counter culture mvmnt of the 60s. Again in a way I thank him because it made me more determined to stay close to my kids, and I have mostly suceeded with that. this is probably my longest post on record anywhere, but I have really enjoyed this athenarose. thankyou for the opportunity to ponder these things! Sweetestgirl… coming to know you through your family history takes me back to my own… and how you remind me about what, and by whom I was most influenced too, and the journey you’ve taken in life allows me to see that my own wasn’t so vastly different… I’m the one who is honored that you feel comfortable enough to take this opportunity to open up and share your self with us in this way… your willingness to speak illuminatingly is to be admired… thank you. |
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I think my parents would have been shocked and upset and disappointed and even worried if I ended-up in a traditional marriage...It would have seemed foreign to them since they enjoyed being best friends and "equals." (In their marriage.)...If a did end-up playing a passive role in my marriage I'm sure my parents would have encouraged me to develop more "guts" and "gumption."...But I didn't go the "traditional route" because it just wasn't in my nature...My parents tried to help one of my cousins become more assertive with her husband. She was shy and lacked confidence and had trouble "speaking-up" for herself...In the end my cousin's husband left her (and their 4 kids) for a younger woman...My parents tried to help my cousin get back on her "feet" and come into her "own." (With or without a man in her life.)
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? Athena again, I like you. You think deeply which is both a good thing and bad. IMHO our parents have/had a great percentage of sway in regards to how we are in relationships. At the end of the day, we make our own choices, but I still feel that the influence is there somewhere. I think it boils down to who we are as people. Essentially, my moms raised me and I have several feminine traits which will either rub you right or rub you wrong. My wife's Mom is a "controller" and it is obvious that those traits were magically passed down. Our relationship was that of contrast in nearly every way. A bad way mostly. Other couples definitely have influence as well - for example - if you hang out with a womanizer, you WILL pick up some of those qualities, mannerisms, and mindset - to some degree. That same goes for women. My wife's best friend was without a doubt "in control" of most aspects (99%) of her marriage. I think my wife wanted that. She didn't and will never get that here. I am in the varying-50 camp which means that most things should be decided 50-50 other than those things were perceived expertise is at play. When it is time to get new tires, that is more my call; when it's time for new clothes, all her. Either way discussion should always be a part most of the time. The relationship will eventually crumble otherwise...mine did but oh-well! |
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? Of course our parents hold sway...They provide our first exposure to how relationships work and what is required (or not required) of us when we enter into our own committed relationship...As far as respecting their wishes, after I became emancipated, my parents did not impose their wishes upon me,,,they trusted my judgement... In a committed relationship built upon love, trust, and respect, the degree of influence couples have over each other trumps that of any other.....As to "living in contrast" ...Not sure what you mean...Some couples can do this by mutual agreement, but it is rare....Why would you want to live in contrast with your significant other?...Makes no sense to me...Why not just stay single and self absorbed.... |
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Leigh, I think "contrast" refers to the opposite of always being in agreement. I know many couples like this, and it just works for them. To some degree, being in contrast is human nature and is born out of individuality. Now when you enter a relationship with someone, this me/you-ness should automagically minimize, but not everyone's does.
Think of a Christmas: "I think we should put white lights on the tree, and colored bulbs on the house" = you either agree or disagree, then you choose to either say something & stand-up for your opinion or you don't. Your significant other then concedes and agrees or they don't. What's next? So many variables...but communications is always the key! |
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Leigh, I think "contrast" refers to the opposite of always being in agreement. I know many couples like this, and it just works for them. To some degree, being in contrast is human nature and is born out of individuality. Now when you enter a relationship with someone, this me/you-ness should automagically minimize, but not everyone's does. Think of a Christmas: "I think we should put white lights on the tree, and colored bulbs on the house" = you either agree or disagree, then you choose to either say something & stand-up for your opinion or you don't. Your significant other then concedes and agrees or they don't. What's next? So many variables...but communications is always the key! Hey Head Doc...Yeah, I see where you're going with this...and I agree opposites can and do attract. but the OP's wording sounded like she was saying, "do we respect our partners wishes or ignore them by living in contrast"....Just the way I read it...As for what color lights...My response would be..."Decorate it anyway you like baby...When your done, we will turn off all the other lights and make passionate love in the soft light of our beautiful Christmas tree.... 
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Due to our vast cultural, educational, fiscal, social, spiritual… differences… (just to name a few)… it’s sometimes difficult to relate to others not from our similar environments… So……. Subject #1… Do our parents hold sway? To what degree of influence did/do our parents’ practices have over us, and the choices we make about who we bring home to meet them as a possible life partner? And… do we always respect their wishes, or do as we choose in contrast to them? Subject #2… Do couples hold sway? Likewise... To what degree of influence do couples have over the mindset and actions of each other? And… do we always respect the others wishes, or do we choose to live in contrast to them? Athena again, I like you. You think deeply which is both a good thing and bad. IMHO our parents have/had a great percentage of sway in regards to how we are in relationships. At the end of the day, we make our own choices, but I still feel that the influence is there somewhere. I think it boils down to who we are as people. Essentially, my moms raised me and I have several feminine traits which will either rub you right or rub you wrong. My wife's Mom is a "controller" and it is obvious that those traits were magically passed down. Our relationship was that of contrast in nearly every way. A bad way mostly. Other couples definitely have influence as well - for example - if you hang out with a womanizer, you WILL pick up some of those qualities, mannerisms, and mindset - to some degree. That same goes for women. My wife's best friend was without a doubt "in control" of most aspects (99%) of her marriage. I think my wife wanted that. She didn't and will never get that here. I am in the varying-50 camp which means that most things should be decided 50-50 other than those things were perceived expertise is at play. When it is time to get new tires, that is more my call; when it's time for new clothes, all her. Either way discussion should always be a part most of the time. The relationship will eventually crumble otherwise...mine did but oh-well! |
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I think my parents would have been shocked and upset and disappointed and even worried if I ended-up in a traditional marriage...It would have seemed foreign to them since they enjoyed being best friends and "equals." (In their marriage.)...If a did end-up playing a passive role in my marriage I'm sure my parents would have encouraged me to develop more "guts" and "gumption."...But I didn't go the "traditional route" because it just wasn't in my nature...My parents tried to help one of my cousins become more assertive with her husband. She was shy and lacked confidence and had trouble "speaking-up" for herself...In the end my cousin's husband left her (and their 4 kids) for a younger woman...My parents tried to help my cousin get back on her "feet" and come into her "own." (With or without a man in her life.) what a sad story about your cousin... |
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