It seems to me that as we get older we see dreams as a movie, a full production. Unexpected story lines, unexpected endings (if we are not jolted out of it by some clock alarms).

We have all been hearing about brain mapping - compartments where functions are clustered; like the famous speech center: Broca's Brain.

There's some recent insights from John Hopkins. It appears that Broca's area is a speech 'planner' and 'adjuster'.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/brocas_area_is_the_brains_scriptwriter_shaping_speech_study_finds

So it may not be wrong to presume that during our dream state Broca's Area is active. If so, like the dialogue deliverer, there must be an image planner. The visuals that cascade so smoothly in our dreams.

And coordinating these two centers must be a director; synchronizing dialogs and visuals to some story line. Call it the Hitchcock center.

The moment i wake up, the dream gets trivialized. This leads me to think that a Hitchcock Center exists, and he hijacks my brain while i sleep.

Am i wrong?

the screen for our dreams could be the same area where our real world visuals are re-projected. i.e., back of the head.

as a layman, here's what i got from the net

Perhaps it is the other way around. Perhaps dreams generate the mind.

Good point A.B. The Hippocampus is the part of the brain you might be talking about. But I think dreams are a combination of many parts of the mind. The Id, The super Id. Some people belive dreams are the subconscious mind, cleansing itself of doubt, suspicion and fear. For some more liberated spiritual types. The dream state acts as a portal through which ones inner spirit can move out of the body to experience the breakdown of constructs established by society. Or something like that...

I think you'll slip very rapidly into having to deal with what the nature of MIND itself is, to address this.

Suggestion for the pondering part: take into account, the temptation to try to adjust your vision or understanding of what dreaming is, to fit another theory of mind that someone has already persuaded you about.

I'm thinking here of the whole "Id/Ego" concept of mind, as well as the more recent attempts to describe mind as being an entirely physiological phenomenon.

As for me, I've had all kinds of dreams. Everything from simple replays of the days events, to attempts to get my way in situations that I already lost in, to obviously trying to fool myself into ignoring my alarm clock, to genuine albeit inexplicable predictions of the future. The only thing I'm reasonably sure of, is that they all come from me.

The only question is, what "me" means.

hanging around on the beach with you,
with a brain already melted to puddle..?

||| couldn't find the medical term for such conditions |||

I agree, but that's after the dream is constructed.

Although for most of you the following is elementary,
for the record, dreams are not only assembled in 'patches' and
'fragments' but it's also revised. I believe Dr. Freud calls it the
Secondary Revision.



what's amazing is 'Secondary Revision' in my sleep( effortlessly)
in daylight; the effort would involve cups of coffee & cigarettes

there obviously are two ways to think. The dream way (free flow) and
2) the ponderous, step by step way - during daylight / reality.

An example, with Blondey's permission (in the interest of science)

i could close my eyes and conjure up a beach & Blondey beside
but the script would have a premeditated intent

on the other hand, in a dream,
i might be quite astonished by what B has to say
(have experienced characters delivering dialogues quite alien to
my nature or to the extent i had knowledge on such characters.
That has left me wondering just where did it come from?)
so in a dream, the characters play out their role with unexpected
results!!

May be the experience of deja vu could be from some dreams in the past.

--xx--

Now if we stay with the dream factory portion of our brain..


So from Wiki..we learn about 3 functions of h_campus


Hippocampus may not be contributing say more than 10% and here's
the reasoning.

1. During a dream, i'm not in control; so there's 'no slamming in the brakes' function.

2. Memory: memory of scenarios are, i believe distributed all over the cortex. If it were in Hippocampus it would remain for the long term(?)

3. Space: Spatial memory does not appear as a dominant feature
in dreams. Yes, we have 3D scenes but 'navigating' through them
(which is what is proscribed as the 3rd function of H_campus)
does not appear critical to many dreams.

--xx--

all this leads to a theory that during sleep, for some distressing to occur; each compartment of the brain 'gives up' some fragment of
information it is holding. But that sounds like junk clearance.

ok, may be some junk removal is necessary before coherent dreams can occur. It's also supported by the fact that the more coherent dreams
seem to occur just before we wake up. So after junk is removed we are left with probably our stronger desires
(repressed wishes as per Dr. F)

--xx--

Assuming we now have the motive for our dream plot ready,
and assuming there is a natural tendency for the brain to realize
it (as per Dr. F)

the question now refines to: who or where is the 'Action / Direction' commandeered from?

Even if it is 'id' running the show with Ego under sleep;
(as seems to be the suggestion from Igor)
where is id located? One would presume that clinical science would have located id by now considering the routine measures of brain activities they take on patients in sleep.

it appears to me like Dad assigning his kid the lawn mover while he takes a nap. So either we find out which parts of the brain is 'napping' while the dream is going on
or
which parts are hyperactive during sleep.

-- long post -- thinking aloud.
---xxx-----

aah, running back to the beach with my melting brain.
Blondey, wait!!

aha, a sisterly rejection.

"..on a beach after nuclear fallout."

priceless.

--xx--

alright, we got sidetracked with 'deja vu'



if it is dysfunction it still gives us a window on its capabilities.
--xx--

now here's an example of dysfunction: "hallucinations" w/o drugs

about 14 years ago (2002) i was living 'alone' in a 100 acre project
site planning it's revival. The power company had cut our lights.

at night, while going to sleep, the opposite wall would dissolve
and a scene from some stone age would appear,
a family of 4; a man, wife & two young kids around a cooking fire
they would all be looking towards me, expectantly like family,
waiting for me to join them for a 'mid-day' meal.

it was tempting to attempt & cross the threshold to 'their time'
something stopped me.

used to happened almost every night, 'same scenario';
so to get some sleep; i started to drinking.

much later i found out this was normal for prisoners confined in
solitude. a form of hallucination.

for me the experience was real; & may be it was a 'time mismatch'.

But to suggest dreams in similar category of dysfunctions...
--xx--

now consider musicians or scientists at work cutting off any interruptions as it would break their flow of 'creativity'
dreams come closer to this 'creative category'
only diff. is they are not predictable!!

--xx--

science may not yet have tools for precise investigations
but i think there's enough info for 'clinical' analysis & 'hypothesis'

question is no longer why do we dream.
it's how do we do it.
This is distinct from how we 'apply effort or force of will'
to imagine or visualize solutions for scientific or other problems

on second take it appears to me that AB is suggesting external input;
dreams emanating from a vision perhaps.

at some hazard to my standing as a budding rationalist in M2 community, howsoever prickly my prose,
i must admit to having experienced a life enhancing mystic experience.

a bit ashamed i didn't record it and so can only submit details as
a guinea pig.

further, i didn't take the experience forward,
may be cause i was young, or conditioned by routine life, newspapers and so on.

but i think, we need to explore this subject / theme and i'm particularly interested in what my friends, MightyMoe and Metalwing
have to say. Sassy's and other friends comments would be a bonus.

if Msharmony would share, double bonus.
thanks yew all for patience in this otherwise difficult thread.

.. begins to squeeze his Kleenex box very tightly...ohh la la.

Dreams are something else...the brain is so amazing...it's funny how with a daydream a person can control its outcome but when your asleep your brain just does its own thing that only waking up can decide its fate...where dreams come from and what they represent I guess depends on who is analyzing them...but dang...I have some wild ones...

"Dreams are something else..." (ah, a fellow rationalist)

all the more reason we study there generation
'or degeneration' as the sunshine girl suggested

before embarking on AI & such areas..

--xx--
if we rule out those 'descending from heavens' - mystical experiences

then there is within: a dream creator?

a maverick Id?
who when Ego is "asleep your brain just does its own thing"

as i'm not familiar with id / ego but assume they are

then the conclusions would be: we are two of us in one.

the id guy driving the brain and contriving dreams

and the ego guy controlling the mind.

then there must be some healthy technique to switch between the two
without drinking or dreaming.