A lot of great opinions here, so I'm throwing mine in.

Just based on my own personal experience and observations. Women don't want a "nice guy." They want a "bad-boy," that they can turn into a nice guy.

Nice guys are boring. Anyone can get one of those.

Of course, it is just a generalization and does not apply to EVERY woman.

It seems the girls want a good bad guy just like the guy's want a good bad girl

I would ask you out for a date in a minute. But alas, we live so far away from each other!

They say that the squeaky wheel gets the oil. Is the wheel that's rusted motionless... incapable of a noisy roll, any less deserving of a few drops of lube?

As msharmony astutely suggested, sometimes introverts, and those who are shy or socially awkward mischaracterize themselves simply as being 'nice'. I don't think that 'nice guys/gals' expect someone to fall in love with them by virtue of their niceness. Mostly I think they want to be acknowledged, and to connect with someone who looks deeply enough to see, and appreciate their qualities. Long term loneliness due to feeling socially incompetent, understandably, can cause a persons spirit to plummet into a period of self-pity.

Hi DavidM616.

With regard to what you said about women articulating that they want a nice guy, it's time that we all realise that people are looking for a lot more qualities than what they bother to state out loud ,because they assume these unspoken things are universally known. Here a few of those unspoken needs.

eg. Most women are looking for a man...

1. with a job that allows them to pay their share of the bills and enjoy a few luxuries as well like going out for dinner occasionally or travelling

2. who is above average in bed

3. Who is consistent in action and temperament but not overly predictable (which translates into boring a lot of the time.)

4. who is nice , but capable of being assertive setting boundaries with others when necessary

5. who grooms himself in a way that makes the most of looks ie wearing clothes that match and fit the body no matter what size or height it is, having a hairstyle that flatters the individual, trimming wild facial and nose hair etc . (Im sorry , but presentation matters in the dating world. )

And let's face it , men have their list of things they want, which they seldom state out loud eg a woman with a hot body, who is PHENOMENAL in bed, who doesn't nag, allows them lots of space to hang with their friends etc.

Secondly, with regard to your point about women not giving nice guys a chance romantically,it is a fact that some of the "nice guys" with average looks actually seek out more "hot/ glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities.

And that comes down to preference, which every person is entitled to regardless of their looks, age, gender, personality etc.

But my point is this.

If a "nice guy" with average looks feels entitled to seek out the "hot and glamorous" women out there, and reject the more "average looking " women with great personalities, then why are they so surprised and critical of the "hot/glamorous" women who reject the "nice guy" with average looks in favor of the "hot alpha" male. Is it not the same principle of PREFERENCE at play?

And can I make a side note here? I have often hear of "nice" men accusing women of choosing a "hot " jerk over an average looking nice guy , and the characterisation of jerk is based solely on the stereotype that all good looking men are brainless or heartless, which is not always the case. I have met many "hot" men and women who go against that stereotype , and who also happened to be kind, intelligent and talented. So when guys assume that it was only looks the woman was going for, they might be surprised to learn that the woman was also captivated by other qualities eg the man's confidence, assertiveness, lack of clingyness, etc. Im not saying that a nice guy with average looks can't have those qualities. Im just saying that the stereotype of the hot guy being a jerk is just as unfair as the stereotype that the nice guy is incapable of being passionate, spontaneous and assertive.

That being said, I appreciate your point that the nice guys are not always given the chance they deserve, but then again. Sometimes nice girls suffer the same fate as well at the hands ofthe nice guys.

how ridiculous to make this kind of generalization

perhaps it needs to be defined

what is a "bad boy" anyhow?


for me it does not bring to mind someone I would want to know

more like

criminal

cruel

manipulative

user

bum

loser

Any one who calls himself a nice guy has something else going on IMHO.
I think some of these self proclaimed nice guy gentleman types are different behind closed doors.

Good guys finish last is perhaps the most stupid statement ever.
Shouldn't others decide if your nice or not.

I think it's also linguistics... The English lingo doesn't have a word to properly describe "nice".
In this context it sounds too much like Okay, Boring, Friend-material, Uninteresting.

The other option would be Great or Wonderful which would be interpreted as arrogant.

The Dutch word for "nice" doesn't have that 'boring-f@rt' feeling to it, nor the arrogant one, and is often used on dating sites.
So it really is at least partially a linguistic problem... In Dutch I could easily state "I'm a nice woman", in English it just doesn't convey the same message.

That's exctly how I conceptualise a "bad boy " Tmom, and I am NEVER attracted to that kind of guy and I think the women who are emotionally balance avoid that kind of guy like the plague.

The traits I am attracted to that are commonly associated with the bad boy, are confidence, assertiveness, adventure, passion, but as it turns out , Ive been loky to find that in men who I would label mice and multi-faceted.

I think men want a hot version of June Cleaver, that turns into a dirty whore in the bedroom.

sometimes we are just too much for men to handle... too much of life.. of energy... of love... just too much... but it is good this way..

I'm with Joe on this, you ARE nice when people tell you, you are... It's not some kind of badge you can just pull out and show others as proof of your niceness because someone told you this once. It doesn't work that way.

You are absolutely right Peggy, those who play the "nice" card to get what they want are manipulating the recipients, that's not very nice IMO. When I said being nice works, I didn't mean it works at getting what you want, I meant, being nice works at living a better and more fulfilling life that attracts like minded people in general. That's the indirect reward.

True niceness is how you treat others who can do nothing for you, no advantages, no benefits. True niceness is how you behave when no one is watching. It's not an act, it's your go to, by default. plain & simple.

As for me, I'll be the first to biotch slap some mofo who is out of line but I'll also be the first to go out of my way to help. I know it doesn't completely qualify as being nice even though people tell me that, they're just not aware, I'm more authentic than "Nice".

And still wearing her pearls.

I suggest taking an extra step back from this ancient subject, and look at it more generically:

people commonly look for certainty in their lives. For ways of doing things, which they are reasonably confident will give them the results they seek.

When we want clean dishes, we usually use soap and hot water, because that seems to work a lot of the time. At least, that's what most people tell others who ask about how to arrange to eat off of clean plates.

In relationships, and pursuit of reliable mates, the same desire exists amongst EVERYONE, for a way to make sure we find someone who we can count on, AND for a list of ways for each of us to behave, so as to be our most attractive.

That's where this ultimately comes from. Women look for ways to pretend to be, which will attract the men they desire, and men look for ways to pretend to be, which will attract the women they desire.

Both men and women end up annoyed with each other for faking everything. Women are annoyed with men who pretend to be "nice" to bribe them, and men are annoyed with women who pretend to be "wildly sexual," or "ditzy," or whatever other fantasy version of "what men want" that women fool themselves into believing.

The men who play "nice" get an extra bad rap, simply because being "nice" is a bad gambit. If the "fake slut" approach fails for a women, she's unlikely to suffer general setbacks in her life because of it. If a man plays the "fake nice" game, fellow males will ostracize him, laugh at him, and any woman who isn't fooled by it, will put him in the "extreme rejection" bin, for being a liar, and even worse for being WEAK.

But anyway, I digress. Bottom line, the answer to why any males TRY the "nice guy" routine, is simply because it is one of the prominently listed suggestions in the massive "how to fool women in to letting you in their knickers" encyclopedia.

Likely my response to this...

Freek

Hello Peggy. :)
I like the way you think. You obviously have a good head on your shoulders. (Where do you live again? Anywhere near Plainfield, Indiana? )

I agree that no one generally rattles off a laundry list of everything he/she is looking for every time the topic is discussed.Certainly there are some presumptions about it. And, as another poster said, we are all basically looking for a very similar set of qualities in a lover, regardless of our gender or sexual orientation.

I was just sharing my experience in order to offer you one man's perspective on your question. And, in fact, while we're talking about my experience, I can offer you a personal anecdote that supports some of your statements in your OP:
Over the course of my last relationship, my ex told me at different times that I met every one of your bullet points above. Particularly number two. (No brag. Just fact.) And, we got along really well, and had a lot of fun together. Yet, she ended up breaking up with me. When she ended the relationship, she told me: "You're a wonderful guy. You've been nothing but good to me, and I'll always love you as a friend. But...you're just not the ONE. And, I'm not willing to settle for second best."
Obviously, I was heartbroken. I was devastated. But, I got it. It's just like you said, there are so many complex factors that go into making a lasting relationship; so many personality traits (For instance.) that must be compatible. And, of course, there has to be that spark.
So, yeah, there is a whole lot more to it than just being a "nice guy."

Still, even though I get that, it is sometimes befuddling to have a woman tell me that she's looking for a guy who very much sounds like her description of me, yet she won't even give me a chance! ;)

But,don't think I'm picking on women here, for I agree with you that men do the same thing. I don't deny that for a minute. I've seen it too many times! I think we can all think of examples of guys we have known who have a female friend that he really likes, maybe even really loves, and she is a really loving, compassionate, Top Notch lady, yet he just can't seem to bring himself to make a commitment to her because he is too busy chasing after every big-boobed blonde bimbo that crosses his field of vision. (*See footnote.)

I think that what we are demonstrating here is that all of us, women or men:
1. Want the best that we can get in everything.
2. Don't always use sound judgement, particularly when it comes to relationships.
3. Finding another individual human being, regardless of gender, who is compatible enough with oneself in order to forge a life-long relationship, makes finding the proverbial needle-in-a-haystack stunningly easy by comparison.

Again, I like the way you think, and I don't disagree with you. I was just trying to offer at least a partial answer to your question. :-)

*Footnote-
1.I'm not saying that all blondes with big boobs are bimbos. (Like you said, many beautiful people are wonderful people.) But, some are.
2. Please forgive my goofy tangent here, but it's just the way my mind works. When I read the phrase "big-boobed blonde bimbo," I immediately think that it sounds like a page out of the Dr. Seuss's ABC Book for Adults.
"Big B...Little b. What begins with b? Big-boobed blonde bimbo. B,b,B."