What would come of a topic, should someone... anyone... open up their own "belief system" for all to ask questions and or try to pick apart... just to see how well it stands up to "reason"?

It is already done...sorta... I mean, there are always debates... but, would the atmosphere be more "conducive" to a level-headed "lobbing" of notions back and forth, without all the unsubstantiated absolutes?...if the understanding was such from the "get go"?

There are some very logical minded people here... and perhaps it would provide quite a stimulating conversation... as long as everyone does not take anything personally...

Whatchoo think?

im intrigued...it mite even help me establish what i might actually believe in...

hmmmm... how does one define, the union, between self and the natural order?

How does one define a sense of collective conscious that doesn't require defining and labelling?

I truly believe there are good sources for furthering one's understanding everywhere...

many teachers...

many lessons...

all of which should add up to inner peace...

Besides that...... I just love learning!!!

Jess...

That is a great question...

Ummmmmmm....

Ummmmm....

Ummm....

God?

Living vicariously as a brute beast with propogation in season and torment at all.

Quite natural, don't you think?

I don't think you'd like that Jess.

Others will.

I wonder how many more amazing souls will cross my path in life,,,

Hugs to you (((( Michael )))))

Blessed be

LaMom:

Hugs shared with you.... always...

When Blatant a while back said that there are no absolutes that has helped me. It has helped to be in the here and now better when I communicate with someone in the real world.

Hiya hillfolk...

I have come to believe that Bl8ant is brilliant...

I know she is missed by many here...

There are many teachers and many students all of us are both of which...

I miss the ant!!!

Never had enough time to really get to know her.

Sad state of affairs that her liberties are so misconstrued.

I’m not exactly sure what you’re suggesting here.

As you know, I have a ‘pantheistic’ view of life. And I even hate to use that word because I’ve had people look the word up and come back at me with definitions of the word that I don’t agree with. Instead of asking me more details about what I mean, they just told me that I don’t even know what I believe.

This is why many people won’t even associate a word with their belief because someone else may define that word different from what they intended to represent by it.

My basic ‘belief’ is that the universe is god. I use a lowercase ‘g’ specifically to show that I’m not using this as a personal pronoun. I don’t think of god as being person-like.

I think people completely misunderstand the concept of man being created in the ‘image’ of god. I think they take the word ‘image’ too literal. Like in ‘mirror image’.

I think of it more along the lines of the ocean creating waves in its ‘image’. A wave doesn’t look anything at all like the ocean. It’s not a miniature ocean. It’s something totally distinct and differnet from the ocean, yet it’s made in the ‘image’ of the ocean.

This is more the way that I think of god. God is the ocean of the cosmos and we are the waves in the cosmic ocean.

Up to that point I don’t see how anyone could ‘pick apart’ this vision of our essence.

About the only thing left for them to ‘pick apart’ would be the actual notion of the universe being god (or god being the universe). They might ask things like, “What do you mean by god?”, and then if I go into a detailed answer they might try to pick those details apart.

But I don’t worry about trying to go into a detailed answer at that point. I don’t claim to know all of god’s secrets. Whatever god is god is, Que Sara Sara.

So that basically puts an end to the ‘picking apart’ right there. There’s nothing to pick apart.

It’s a ‘belief’. If it were a well-understood fact, with detailed evidence to support it, then it would be a science. But it’s not a science, it’s a belief.

There’s also no book that comes with it to be ‘picked apart’.

Religions that come with books provide tons of things to be 'picked apart'. The books say things and therefore we can ask whether the things the book say are consistent with nature. We can also ask whether the books are consistent with their own proclamations. There’s something to be ‘picked apart’ in religions that come with a book.

Religions that have no books are pretty hard to ‘pick apart’.

I might also add that I'm not trying to sell my belief system to anyone else. So I have no need to 'defend' it.

If someone doesn't want to believe it that's fine with me.

Ah Abra...

What you have expressed is so simply true... in regards to books and picking them apart..

Perhaps it is the expressed purpose(s) of religion(s) that stands as the source of all my questioning... and the general principles contained therein... that should stand up to knowledge and or reason... the test of "time" as it were...

In all that I have asked... throughout every discussion on religion that I can remember... I believe that the notion of purpose comes into play...

I would not despise one who questioned my belief system... I actually would welcome it... although I am not in "the norm" either...

None-the-less... I also would agree that there different truthes which are no less valid than others... on an indiviual basis...

I mean no harm... as you well know...

I am not here to tear down anyone's belief system... and if my methods of search offends others, it is not the intention of the source... that source being me...

Ah, the purpose of religion,…

That can be viewed from two differnet perspectives. From the perspective of a religious organization,… or from the perspective of the individual who would like to know truth.

Obliviously religious organizations can have a multitude of agendas. Many of them can be political in nature (i.e. wanting to make people behave in certain ways). This can be from an authoritarian point of view, or even from the point of view of extremely bigoted and prejudiced individuals who simply want other people to conform to their belief system so as not to burst their own bubble.

I’m not the slightest bit concerned about the organizational perspectives of religions.

~~~

As far as personal purposes there can be many. In fact, many people seem to turn to religion for their moral needs. Although, in all honestly I think most of the people who do that do so simply because they were taught the there is a judgmental God so they had better listen up!

I don’t turn to religion for moral values. I’m completely happy with my own thoughts on that and I will hold them up to any judgmental God that might exist. Que Sara Sara. My thoughts on this is that any judgmental God must surely be more compassionate, more intelligent, and more forgiving them me. As long as this is true, then I’m safe. If God isn’t as nice as me then we’re all in big trouble!

I feel the same way as Einstein on the topic of morals.,..

“A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death” – Albert Einstein

The other thing people turn to religion for is becausethey simply can’t handle not knowing things. So they imagine an all-knowing God to do their thinking for them!

I’m not troubled by what I don’t know, and I feel much the same way as Richard Feynman on this,…

"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." – Richard Feynman

Finally, some people feel that somehow a religion will bring them closer to god. I have never believed that. I have always believed that if god exists then god exists within each and every one of us. God exists in nature. For me, god is nature.

Again I’d like to share the words of Richard Feynman who has eloquently stated how I feel,…

“You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts. I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something.” – Richard Feynman

Replace ‘the bird’ with ‘god’ and this is how I feel.

The universe is god. Look at her and see what she’s doing.

This is the best way to get to know god. Up close and personal.

If you guys get too bored here's some more reading material for you.

http://www.pocm.info/index.html

Thanks for the link War,

The site is very well done.

So it's actually "Mediterranean Mythology” instead of “Middle Eastern Mythology”.

Gotcha!

War:

Ditto the thanks...

There is definitely a case being made, huh?

Curiously interesting...

This man's point of view, and the evidence he presented...

Mythology parallels... the evolution of extrapolation...

I wonder how accurate the info on the Mediterranean Mythology is?

Abra,

In response to your post at 1:36pm, titled "Ah, the purpose of religion.."

I find myself in perfect agreement exclusive of your remarks in the last three sentences.

There does remain one thing that I would find as inclusive to religions' kaleidescope.

Namely, truth is where you find it...presently.

I love that word....idolatrously so.......

This isn't the first time I have heard of these coincidences The first one I heard was a lady at work was actually doing research (a year or so ago) on stories from the Bible and stories from the Sumerians and from what she told me and what I have read about this it seems yet again we have more similar stories.