Topic: First Cause
zevp's photo
Sat 05/27/17 12:42 PM
So, we've all heard the argument from first cause.
Typically it goes something like this, "x causes y, y causes z, ad infinitum".
The objection now is "what causes x?" to which one can either answer "x causes itself, it is God" or "x was caused by another force we don't know of, presumably matter".

Both conclusions don't escape the problem.
Simply giving x a new name, or stating that there is no paradox does not give an answer!

So, we must rethink this issue.

We must ask, can God be equated to x?
The answer is demonstrably, no! God, whatever it may be, is immaterial, if we hold that God had a causal connection with matter, then we hold God to be another object in the chain of objects, the only special attribute (which is not in the essence of the object but only in its relation) is that it is first.
So, if God is not an object in causality, how can it cause?

I remember as a child, my father used to say, "God is prior to all, he is not a body and he does not have a body".
Working with this definition, God is immaterial (has no body, as we already concluded) and he is also prior to causality itself.
We might think of a person, a person is rational, that is what causes it to be a person and not an animal, it is also living, but even before it living it must exist. Existence is prior to all causal relations of the subject, being is primordial.
You can apply this to all things, for a thing to exist it must first "be", a subject which predicates (being, predicating living, predicating rationality, which then contains man).
Now, we might want to go even further, and abstract this principle of being to be something that is present in all things, and therefore also the cause of all things, a complete, simple, unity. "Nothing to something." We might call this, Being, substance, nothing, tao or God, all which hold the same meaning.

For those of you who are familiar with the history of philosophy, this might sound similar to neo platonism, or Islamic theology, indeed this is not from my own intellect but it has been acquired from authors from these movements. Particularly, al-Kindi. This is not a belief I hold dear, merely a thought I found interesting.

Tom4Uhere's photo
Sat 05/27/17 03:06 PM
x is baseline energy, the fabric of reality. The essence of existence.
Ultimately everything that has resulted from energy will return to energy (all matter is energy).

What we define as energy is merely its current form. Before it was movement (heat) and duration it was something else that we cannot describe because it is not the prevalent state and we have no reference or evidence.

Eventually, when all matter has been reverted to energy and that energy has had time to disperse, slow down, cool off and freeze, a new state of existence will prevail.

At that moment the properties of existence will be too different for us to fathom. All we know is an existence based on energy.

arlow11's photo
Wed 05/31/17 07:12 PM


You erred. You state x then y then z and then added God. why do you need God to explain x y z

no photo
Wed 05/31/17 07:19 PM
This does not make sense.

IgorFrankensteen's photo
Sat 06/17/17 07:02 PM
I decided something a while back now. It is the result of the most rigorous application of both observation and logic I could muster.

I noticed in my studies of history, that a certain mistake has been made many times, and that it has always impeded the progress of enlightenment, of discovery and of understanding, every time it has been made.

That mistake is, to insist on drawing, and committing to a firm conclusion, when large areas of information and knowledge are yet to be recognized.

The idea of "first cause" is a classic example of where people have made the same repeated mistake of declaring certainty when they have nothing to go on but wishes or fantasies.

Here's the most important thing to decide about, even before worrying about things like first cause, or gods, or any other similar Great Question:

WE DON'T HAVE TO DECIDE THE ANSWER TO THIS NOW.

The only reason to MAKE a decision about something like this, is if we functionally need to, in order to proceed from where we are.

In the mean time, we can entertain a variety of possibilities, and wait for further information.