Interrogators Don't Need to Torture; It Doesn't Work
By Robert Weiner and John Larmett
The Cleveland Plain Dealer

Friday 14 March 2008

The House vote this week was 225 to 188 - not enough to override President Bush's veto of legislation requiring the CIA to abide by the same interrogation rules that bar torture by the military.

Congress should pass new legislation and insist on "no torture" as universal U.S. policy. This should be a central presidential campaign issue.

Since the revelations of Abu Ghraib, President Bush has said repeatedly that "We do not torture."

Yet Gen. Michael Hayden, director of the Central Intelligence Agency, admitted in testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Feb. 5 that the CIA had used waterboarding on terror suspects three times in recent years.

Gen. David Petraeus, commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, said last year, "If we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy, that would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary."

Current law does not bind the CIA or other "national security" interrogators - the very ones who now have the exemption allowing "extreme methods." To bar it from those who don't do it, but allow it by those who do, is hypocritical at best. The use of electric shocks, sexual abuse and waterboarding are illegal under U.S. laws, but the president and even Sen. John McCain support the CIA's and their contractors' right to use them.

Last fall, McCain said that waterboarding "was used in the Spanish Inquisition, and there are reports it is being used against Buddhist monks today. It is torture."

However, on Feb. 13, McCain voted against the measure banning "harsh interrogation methods." (The measure passed in the Senate.) Claiming that the CIA should be differentiated from the Army Field Manual Guidelines, which McCain himself imposed, he said, "It is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to detain and interrogate terrorists."

With deference to his POW and hero status, it must be stated that McCain has placed himself on the wrong side of this issue.

The government admits to three cases of waterboarding, but it's doubtful that is the limit. Former Vice President Al Gore has asked just how 100 young, vigorous soldiers died in our custody in prison in Abu Ghraib; no autopsies were conducted on these soldiers. The CIA's admission of waterboarding three people is a disingenuous way of ignoring what the CIA's contractors, as opposed to the CIA itself, have done. There is virtually no legal oversight abroad of CIA contractors. Amnesty International has provided evidence of the "use of torture and ill-treatment against prisoners" at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan and Iraq. It turns out that the torturing was likely done by purposely unmonitored contractors.

Just how do we think the families, friends and colleagues of those who are tortured react when their loved ones finally get to tell the story? Torture is motivating terrorists.

On the Senate floor, Edward Kennedy gave some precision to torture techniques: "What constitutes unlawful and inhumane treatment of detainees are a wide range of abuses including death threats, beatings, broken bones, murder, exposure in elements, extreme forced physical exertion, hostage taking, stripping, sleep deprivation and degrading treatment."

The United States legally banned these techniques in dealing with the Japanese, Germans and Vietnamese in past wars and prosecuted perpetrators of those nations who used them.

Now that Americans know that the CIA destroyed at least two videotapes documenting waterboarding despite specific congressional warnings not to delete such tapes, the battle over who-covered-up-what is on. Questions include not just whether agency officials withheld information from Congress, the courts and the 9/11 commission, but who authorized the illegal behavior, and precisely what was done.

So far, all that we have gotten from the administration on these questions is tortured logic. "We do not torture" should mean, "We do not torture."

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Weiner, president of Robert Weiner Associates Public Affairs and Issues Strategies, was a public affairs director in the Clinton administration. Larmett is a senior policy analyst at Robert Weiner Associates.

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What good do these stupid laws do when we're the only ones following them? These fanatical Islamic SOB's want nothing more than to cut your head off because you're an American, or blow your children up while they're in school, or cut your fingers off and send them to your momma! These people do not understand the right way to act and they are indoctrinated at a young age to hate Americans. All they understand is violence and I say untie the military's hands and give it to 'em! While people like you are worried about water torture, these animals are killing your soldiers and my brothers and sisters and everybody else sent over there to try and help them! Freakin' Communist Idiot!

We shouldn't be there anyway. But the soldiers know what they do when they enroll, I hope, and nothing you said here justifies torture anyway.

Torture is not punishment for criminal acts by our laws. Torture is a form of illiciting information and it is illegal and should not be done, ever. I don't care what scum of the earth you are talking about. We are civilized, not animals and we should act as though we use our brain. Torture is not and should never be considered an option for us.

Yea we should just say "Please,with sugar on top!" Scary place in your mind there Dragon. Let me know if you have ever written to the terrorist and explained your position on beheading to them.

Tell me dragon, is it lonely in that little idealist world of yours. You have very skewed views on torture. Im not for every type of torture becouse I know where to draw the line. But when you think that being locked in a 8x8 cell is torture then you have no buisness discussing the topic. It also seems that when you think of torture you seem to automaticly think of physical torture. Some of the best torturers never have to touch the people being interogated. Yet when the police do the same thing to a murder suspect its called interagation not torture.

Hey, I find tickling being tortured. You can almost always get information out of someone if you tickle them enough. Apparently it works, though I guess me and everyone else who has ever tickled someone should be locked away forever.

RAWWK USA is Bad. RAWWK.

RAWWK Bush lied, kids died. RAWWK.

RAWWK Torture is wrong. RAWWK.

RAWWK Illegal war. Illegal war. RAWWK.

RAWWK Haliburton. RAWWK RAWWK Haliburton.

Okay, so torture doesn't work. That's your opinion and you are fully entitled to it.



Um...I'm sure you don't see any problem with those statements, but they made me laugh.

Well, if all of ya'll or any proponent of torture on here feels somehow justified. Remember, two wrongs don't make a write, just because others in the world do wrong does not mean we should lower ourselves to animals to compare to them, etc....

Hopefully all of those get the joy of experiencing torture they are so pround to be a proponent of/

One day you may be the enemy and I hope for your sake they are not torturing our enemies then.

Shame on anyone who believes torture is justified. What kind of thought processes go into being accepting of torture???

Being in favor of torture makes you NO BETTER AND JUST LIKE THE EXTREMISTS YOU CLAIM ARE THE SCUM OF THE EARTH!!!!!

I am a moral objectivist.

If a life could be saved by torturing someone with the information to save that life, it is a greater sin to NOT torture the guilty.

Still makes you no different than the extremists, so what are you saying that it is okay to be like them???? Then why are we fighting them???

It makes me completely different from the extremists. Your view that torture for fun = torture to save innocent lives is extremist, stupid and amoral.

NOT!!! But whatever you have to tell yourself to get through the day is okay with me. Torture is wrong, there is no way to make it right.

Worse "tortures" than what our government performs are done to pledges in Fraternities and sororities.

That makes it right????

There is no justification for torture, none, sorry.

Yes, it does.



To save the lives of innocents, that justifies torture.

Torture does work. Hussein's people, Al-Q would cut your head off in a minute. And, you defend these people? Sick.

Lindyy

There is absolutely no proof that torture saves innocent lives. What if the person would have told you anyway? Or better yet, tells you the wrong information and causes more lives to be lost??? Not even valid still.

Torture is not a civilized, intelligent thing to do. So if you want to wallow with the animals be my guest but I will take the high road. I will not wish on another human that which I would not want done to myself. Because I am human and intelligent.

You don't even makes sense most of the time. How am I suppose to address that???

Torture does not work, it is not intelligent, civilized, etc.... It is not proven to save lives, it is not even proven effective to illicit valid information.

As for what "they" would do, there are people walking our streets today who look and act just like us that would cut our heads off or worse. Criminals come in all backgrounds, races, religions, etc.... So what does that prove. Torture is not a legal punishment for crimes.

If you think it's righteious and just to torture those that you percieve as a threat, or withholding information, but against having your own side tortured or abused by those that have that same perception(enemies) you are a hypocrite...