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Community > Posts By > thinkingaboutit09
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I think it is the last place we need to cut, our children are FAILING and as cliche as it is they really are our future. Cut their source of funding and protection and you cut our future place in the world. so long as we keep health care repeal, the medicare is not an issue as they will or should already have their own health insurance. If the 50 percent cut includes salaries, its not deal, otherwise it all sounds peachy well healthcare repeal is another issue in which i want more consessions for, the 50% comes in forms of jobs not salary cuts. cut DOE jobs! |
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I have a question?
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? I agree msharmony but there are two issues regarding this one healthcare will be a 3 plus trillion dollar tax. Yes we already pau for healthcare so it's transfer money really but with governmental control. second i don't agree with previous taxes so just cause i have to pay them doesn't mean i agree with them understandable and thats probably the core issue. How much, at all, of an investment (tax) citizens should expect to pay into keeping their country going......IM willing to pay at least as much as other western countries who have a higher standard of living and/or qulity of life |
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I think it is the last place we need to cut, our children are FAILING and as cliche as it is they really are our future. Cut their source of funding and protection and you cut our future place in the world. |
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A Glimmer of Hope
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%Different governments today use a variety of government systems, communism, democracy, monarchy etc.... Does this mean there is a monopoly on thought? I don't think because Obama meets with one idealogical thinker he prescribes to every principal of thought that man beleives. This works in reverse as well so when you try and use guilt by association it's ignorant! The cheif reason for gridlock today as well partisan politics! We need solutions and good ideas come from both sides of the aisle, just 94% from the right!  lol....tax breaks to the rich? You act like your entitled to the rich mans money! Tax breaks to all americans rich and poor! Tax cuts across the board and shrink government! They take enough money from the rich or upper class! I don't think a rich man is a bad man, on the contrary they are usually very honest, hard working and compassionate people! I don't beleive the lie that because your rich your a bad person and you should have to pay far more in taxes! |
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Well i see your point however i am not a chinese citizen and yes i am for my team "America"! The chinese have been running a trade deficit for how many years? I am a conservative but i part ways when it comes to china! We need to do more to balance trade with china and bring manufacturing back to America! Bringing back manufacturing means more jobs for the lower and middle classes. It also means more jobs for the undereducated. Strengthen the bottom sector of the population (meaning those that work), and it translates into more tax revenue and more consumer buying power. It can even give them the chance to become more educated rather than having to work three jobs just to pay the bills. Let's face it, not everyone is cut out to be part of a "service-oriented economy". A good chunk of our working population is being alienated by the lack of manufacturing jobs and by an increased need for advanced education in the work place. You realize that if we brought manufacturing back to America that prices would drastically increase for all those products. Not to mention its not just people in china taking these kinds of jobs its also robotics. Assembly lines used to be done all by hand and now many are automated. Its just the progression of technology and people are going to need to start getting educated or find themselves with smaller and smaller job opportunities. Well on the face i can agree but the reality is how did we get to this point? Illegal labor and cheap goods from china outsourcing jobs did stimulate our economy but many economist's argued that it was a temp fix and frankly those people where on the left. So just because the republicans say it is so doesn't make it the case. I would much rather be dealing with inflation today than inflation with no jobs! Now when it comes to global trade we can use foriegn labor but here at home we need tariffs and tax law to protect American manufacturing! We can use technology also to compete and have for a century and it worked. I am conservative but it makes no sense to transfer our manufacturing overseas for cheaper goods. Over the long haul it will only hurt our economy because like it or not there are people in America that need low skill jobs with decent pay. The unions also have been a problem in this arena by artificially raising wages and benefits beyond a manageable amount. So yeah 8 bucks an hour or 40 bucks an hour for a non skilled job will not work! If we can get some non-partisan legislation maybe we can solve this problem?????????? big ???? |
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What do we all here about social security in the media? The general premise is it is in trouble and thus must be poorly run. Well, it is in trouble, but not because of the way it is run. Instead, the program is underfunded and holds a ton of IOUs from a group that is just about the least credible creditor on the planet - the United States Government! It all comes down to the surplus issue. Social security has been running out of money because it spends more than it takes in, right? No. The opposite is true. The program has nearly always brought in tens to hundreds of billion dollars more a year than it has expended. One needs only look to the 2006 year when it brought in just over $100 billion more than it spend. Given all these surpluses, the program should literally have trillions of dollars built up in its trust account. It does not. So, where did all the money go? Most people know they are in trouble when they have to borrow from one credit card to pay another. Well, our government never really learned the lesson. It has been borrowing the social security surplus for years and using it to pay the interest on the national debt. Talk about a shell game! Well, it worked so long as there was a surplus. That no longer is the case. If they had kept their hands off it there would be plenty. They should have never been allowed to borrow from it in the first place. I think it was Reagan who first started putting in the IOU s. actually it was eisenhowser and every pres since has had their hands in it! So your off by about 5 presidents and clinton used ssa funds to give the perception of a balnaced budget which was a farse. But you bring up exactly my point! ssa could have worked had they followed the rules right? WHat makes you think they are telling the truth this time with heathcare? They are not and it is a farse like every other social program, just a money grab by greedy politicians! The entire point of realists! The reason for federalism early in our founding was exactly for this reason. Government is inherently evil and always will be! Man can not be trusted with this kind of power and with healthcare representing about 3 trillion plus it is far beyond the ability of government to be trusted with! It goes directly against the founding principals of America and if you actually study history this is not even debatable. The only thing an honest historian can debate is if our founders where correct! The principal founders studied the different forms of government of the previous centuries and devolped a hybrid Republic system that has worked better than any system known to man! Those principals have slowly been taken away from our governmental system due to power grabs! We resemble a democracy more and more each year and the reason the founders where against a democracy was they beleived in rights all men should posses regardless of majority opinion and political manipulation! Reading the constitution, bill of rights and so forth without digging into history leaves you at a great disadvantage! Our founders knew that checks and balances had to be put in place for the growth of our country and the chief thought in mind in my opinion is "how do you create a system that can withtand corruption and the power remain in the peoples hand"! Well you see social security is a perfect example! This idea by FDR went against the principal's of small government and as the founders predicted failed miserably! It's the idea that's the issue it is the balance of power that must remain in effect or government will gain so much power liberty will no longer exsist. So now we are deeply in debt and governemnt is huge beyond compare! Then i actually hear Americans tell me healthcare is the solution? The healthcare bill represents the nail in the coffin of a American dream! If we do not repeal it Americans will no longer be free and completely reliant on government! Please try and look at the big picture! Try to think with your mind and not your emotions! how does buying health insurance make me any less free than I was before I had insurance? Im not getting the leap ,,,,,, Very simply msharmony by taxation! The size of the U.S. GDP last i looked was at 16 trillion annually! This is about twice the chinese and far more than any other country! Yet the american Governmant tells us they need to increase taxes just to pay the bills! The bills are the problem! Now 1/6 of that total figure needs to be handed to the U.S. government just for americans can afford basic services is the ideal right? The government will then have control of a large portion of the GDP overnight! The leap of faith and i will grant for sake of argument it is a leap of faith to a point. The leap of faith is that Government can not handle that kind of power! I contend this is what our founders did not want and their fears of governmental control is coming true. In my opinion the very essence of Freedom comes from small unintrusive government! I see this as a form of socialism just packaged nicely to get it thru then the true intent of this bill will slide down the slope into true socialized medicine in years to come. I disagree with it as an american and want it repealed along with the education system, IRS and many other government agencies that are bloated and out of control! But it's time we take back the taxes and start shutting the doors on government agencies! Lets fire government! I can give you a perfect example, the department of education. Do we really need them anymore? I mean beyond the school house what do all those people do in that huge building filled with employees? 1,000's of workers doing what? do they educate 1 child? why do we need them? the list goes on and on! we need them for overseeing and managing the policies and procedures that impact our childrens education and for the funding and resources to keep up with the rest of the global market You know i beleive the accomplishments of the department of education must be noted, such as the civil rights era in the 1960's. I agree with your point and am all for tweaking the system to say cutting by 90%. I know that may seem extreme but in my opinion it is that far out of whack! I beleive we need to return the money to the local schools and shut down the overseers. the size of it has made it completely ineffective and a money drain on american taxes. It just has no bang for the buck! Now if our education was top notch i could agree but i think the department of education today is the problem no longer the solution! |
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I have a question?
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I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff! we kind of already OPT into a taxed democracy, we all pitch in a share for the 'privilege' of living with the privileges and luxuries offered here compared to other places My tax money already goes to God knows what, as does yours,, there has never been a guarantee of where your tax money will go exactly so why is it a problem all of a sudden that some will be invested in healthcare? I agree msharmony but there are two issues regarding this one healthcare will be a 3 plus trillion dollar tax. Yes we already pau for healthcare so it's transfer money really but with governmental control. second i don't agree with previous taxes so just cause i have to pay them doesn't mean i agree with them |
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I have a question?
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure.  The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! If it were fact we could discuss it. But it ain't fact or correct for that matter. we never get anywhere....look don't want to argue but unemployment was sold on the principal of economics. the argument was in the thirties when jobs dried up it created a snowball effect and business after business closed down. By handing out checks to the unemployed it would keep local business' a float during hard times. That's why we have unemployment today and yes politicians talk about getting them checks to the people but it is all rhetoric. look up edd and read the history it will explain it all to you. The reasoning behind unemployment checks is about the big picture to keep business going during hard times, this is why the checks have always been small and have grown over time. Sorry but it is fact and if you look it up you will see i am correct! Unemployment is a safety net for workers and it paid into by the employers. What you are talking about doesn't change that fact. okay whatever you think but this was your quote and is unfactual and i proved otherwise sorry you just have to accept it dragoness you really need to do your homework! Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. |
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I have a question?
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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very  I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, there is not a single person in this country not paying taxes! We are taxed at every turn and income taxes are only a percentage of what we pay in taxes! I have never in my life got more back than i paid in so not sure where you live but not the people i know! Federal taxes are the income taxes. All other taxes for the most part are state taxes. Healthcare will be a federal tax bill. Making those who pay federal taxes and get them refunded back not even paying into healthcare. Making them scream about something that is none of their problem. I dont think you ever concede lol....sorry but i think you got it backwards! The ones paying at tax time are people like me that pay income taxes. i think the ones not paying taxes are on your side of the fence! but there are many federal taxes! many! |
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I have a question?
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Look i don't know even know where to start! It gets daunting explaining things poeple should learn in high school! First of i said Government imposed healthcare big difference. Second it's about idealology cant you see that? Communism at it's best even under a trusting government fails because it kills the spirit! Read about collectivism and this is what your refering to and it fails because people stop trying....the first pioneers learned this the hard way! history shows this to be correct! Capitolism i agree is not pretty but it works! So i admit i lose on the idealological front and i trully wish that the utopia you desire could come true but i'm a realist and the facts bare it out capitolism works! So it may not be nice but for the greater good people must be forced on their own two feet or they just won't! I accept the above. If hard work is needed, then the best to do is do that hard work. I have no problem with that. I however have problem with your idea that hard work will be avoided if people are helped. The pioneers helped each other. They gave each other meat to eat when one family got famished. They clothed the Injuns who came to get Baptized, those Injuns got beads for it. The pioneers helped each other scale up the mountains, and scale down on the other side. You can't say that helping each other will diminish our strength. In fact, the opposite is true. A society is always stronger than an individual, and the society -- with a local government even -- will protect its members and helpt them. Each member in the US society gives back. The fear is that some members will get something and not give back. And this will lead to thinking "hey, I work, he don't, I get money, he do too." On one hand, this is true ideology; on the other hand, the governemnt -- yes, the BIG goverment -- does not let this happen. If you don't work, you won't need to starve to death, but just about. People on welfare are not living in luxury. They live better than many people in other parts of the world, true, but way below the standard for an Upright US citizen. -------- I admit you were right above, but healthcare is not a part of this "help till he loses the skill and the will to survive". You are already part of a healthcare. The government just wants to make it different. You said originally, that you don't like it, because they want you to pay for them (the lazy ones.) Those "them" are just as hard-working as you, generally; you are already a part of "you vs. them" in your insurance company. The set-up will stay the same, no change will be made in the system of insurance, which you already bought into. I really can't see why on earth you want to avoid a system that is better for everyone, and for those few for whom it would be 10% more to pay, why those are so bitter about helping their fellow Americans to survive, to get better, and get back to work. In fact, you say the system would be good, but it's the "hidden" and unneeded taxes that will destroy the system; well, that is not the fault of the system, and that will happen anyway. It's none of my beezwax what you say and how you will vote. I just say that your reasons for not going for it are either selfish, or they don't make sense. you see wux we aren't too far off in beleifs and if we can get politicians to reach across the aisle and come up with good ideas maybe we could solve these problems. So i tell you what i will vote for nationaized healthcare but i want checks and balances in place to insure it is ran properly! So how do we get there? Well we have to start by tough love! If democrats want to reach across the aisle and say we are gonna stop the fraud and freeloaders i will reach across the aisle and say lets help! Cause i have no problem helping if it is trully helping but thats not what we have today and be honest you know thats true! The money going out could cover the true need by ten fold! But wux until then i have to stick to reality and vote against another government handout! |
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I have a question?
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Sorry Dragon but just because you get a refund doesn't mean you don't pay taxes it just means you over paid your taxes or you had some deductions. When I got a 3k refund for my taxes it didn't mean I didn't pay taxes because you paid about 13k. I just got 3k of that back so I paid 10k. Oh and very very I guess I am stupid, right? Thats a good question if you think paying 10k in taxes is not paying taxes. Except it ain't true. Your pulling my leg as the saying goes. What? Have you ever filed taxes? You see you can choose to claim deductions before you are taxed or not. I choose to claim no deductions. Therefore I am taxed at the most the government can tax me. Then when tax season rolls around I claim my deductions on my tax form. It then shows how the government "over taxed me". I am refunded from the amount they over taxed. so I paid 13k but I should have only paid 10k so they give me 3k back. I do it this way because its a kind of forced savings. Then I usually spend that money for a vacation or something. so you are out of college now? Well, if true, you are one of the exceptions not the rule when it comes to all those screaming about their taxes and they don't pay any They all get refunds of their taxes plus more usually. Almost half of the eligible tax payers pay no income taxes in this country. But they will be the first to scream about the taxes they don't pay, there is not a single person in this country not paying taxes! We are taxed at every turn and income taxes are only a percentage of what we pay in taxes! I have never in my life got more back than i paid in so not sure where you live but not the people i know! |
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I have a question?
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! If it were fact we could discuss it. But it ain't fact or correct for that matter. we never get anywhere....look don't want to argue but unemployment was sold on the principal of economics. the argument was in the thirties when jobs dried up it created a snowball effect and business after business closed down. By handing out checks to the unemployed it would keep local business' a float during hard times. That's why we have unemployment today and yes politicians talk about getting them checks to the people but it is all rhetoric. look up edd and read the history it will explain it all to you. The reasoning behind unemployment checks is about the big picture to keep business going during hard times, this is why the checks have always been small and have grown over time. Sorry but it is fact and if you look it up you will see i am correct! |
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i can tell you why it will double cause the money won't go to healthcare, it will be robbed by every pet project that comes down the pike! So in therory i'm sure your math was not off by 50% the problem is in your therory you can trust politicians! thats where we part ways sir and ssa is a perfect example of why i beleive this! Wow. The money won't go to healthcare. Let's say that's true. Let's say that's true. But then your tax dollars that pay are not PAID for healthcare. You are saying that the government will say it's healthcare that you pay for, but it won't be JUST healthcare. Here you are actually admitting to the fact that it's a good idea to have universal national healthcare, you just don't trust the government. So... okay. We reject the healthcare because we know it will be just one more plot for the government to ask us for money. So let's not pass that bill. But the government will still need to finance its pet projects and programmes. So we will be taxed more, the amount of healthcare, without having actual healthcare. And since the government will introduce the pet-project tax hidden, as piggy-backing on some other new taxes, they always do that you say, so you will be getting no healthcare, but winding up paying double the healthcare tax anyways, eventually. This is very smart. I mean, I am very smart to see through your reasoning for rejecting the healtcare. It was good reasoning, but unfortunately it could be attached to any tax, so rejecting the healthcare to avoid an evil which will happen anyway, is smart to see that it is a stupid rejection. okay we are getting closer and i completely agree with you but the size of healthcare is an issue....three trillion on the conservative side leaves way too much room for scandal and second i want change in other ways! You say lets get something cause we are getting scrwed anyways i say the change in government needs to come by stopping it! Not to mention i won't get anything but another bill so not very fair for me huh? |
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lol if that was true i would "buy" the problem is it is completely inaccurate! The cost will double and i will pay $100.00 and if i wanted communism i could move to Cuba they actually have good healthcare. It's not a point of helping others it's the point of free enterprise and living in a republic! SO call me a baby killer all you want but you know what the capitolist system is far more charitable because it works and the failed idelology of socialism is far less charitable cause it fails! So even though your rhetoric may sound more humane in the real world and history shows it is actually far less humane! If you think it's communist to offer health insurance to all, then you already support the subversives, by being part of one insurance-company-communist-manifesto plot and Bolshevik red brigade. Stop paying your insurance premiums, if you are sure you are anti-communist honest, republic-supportive American Already!!! All you said was health insurance = communism. I don't think that's true at all. All you said was health insurance = communism. Look i don't know even know where to start! It gets daunting explaining things poeple should learn in high school! First of i said Government imposed healthcare big difference. Second it's about idealology cant you see that? Communism at it's best even under a trusting government fails because it kills the spirit! Read about collectivism and this is what your refering to and it fails because people stop trying....the first pioneers learned this the hard way! history shows this to be correct! Capitolism i agree is not pretty but it works! So i admit i lose on the idealological front and i trully wish that the utopia you desire could come true but i'm a realist and the facts bare it out capitolism works! So it may not be nice but for the greater good people must be forced on their own two feet or they just won't! |
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Why not... allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! Not really... if you get sick, the other people pay for you. I mean, you make it sound like the gov is putting a gun into your mouth, and they say "buddy, you are paying for everyone else's medical costs, and that's that. They won't pay for yours." Is it how you imagine it's going to be? You see, 10% of Americans are bankrupted by medical bills. Beyond bankrupt. If everyone pays 10$ more taxes, not anybody will go bankrupt for medical reasons. well i dont know where u get your math but it is far from credible even if they did as they promised! They wont come thru just like social security! Point one is we have a right to say no, point two is it's far more than you say even the dems are admiting that now, point three is they won't deliver and have no credibilty! And the beauty is that anyone can go bankrupt at the current system; only 10% do, coz they get really expensive illnesses. The beauty of the policy is that NOBODY KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME WHO GET THE EXPENSIVE SICKNESS. As easy as doing no. 2. in bed. If you say I don't know the math, then I say you don't know the math. If you don't trust anyone, then you are doing the wrong thing living in a society. Sure there are some crooked politicians and lazy public servants. Some. We don't know how many. But there are more crooked CEOs of insurance companies, and more useless workers (who may still work hard, but their work useless) in insurance companies. |
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lol if that was true i would "buy" the problem is it is completely inaccurate! The cost will double and i will pay $100.00 and if i wanted communism i could move to Cuba they actually have good healthcare. It's not a point of helping others it's the point of free enterprise and living in a republic! SO call me a baby killer all you want but you know what the capitolist system is far more charitable because it works and the failed idelology of socialism is far less charitable cause it fails! So even though your rhetoric may sound more humane in the real world and history shows it is actually far less humane! Ah. The old Communist defence. Did you know that it was "communists" who brought in vodka to Chicago during the prohibition? That it's the "communists" in the 12th century in Western Europe, who established the first hospitals there? Did you know it's the "communists" who opened soup kitchens during the depression? Did yuo know it was the "communists" who give the most generously at church? If your taxes would double, due to this communist plot to bankrupt the country, and laugh at us, yes. But smart mathematicians, smarter than you and me, say it won't double. And think about it: Why would the taxes double? The OVERALL healthcare costs won't increase; they will stay the same. So why would the same cost let a country flourish, and the same cost lead a contry into bankruptcy, just because the payment system is switched from one insurance company to another? And the other insurance company is universal? Much like the monks of Vaduz and Gobbelin were not communists, the Government won't be communist by making healthcare availabel to all in the nation. i can tell you why it will double cause the money won't go to healthcare, it will be robbed by every pet project that comes down the pike! So in therory i'm sure your math was not off by 50% the problem is in your therory you can trust politicians! thats where we part ways sir and ssa is a perfect example of why i beleive this! |
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Why is it okay to take money from others by force? I mean healthcare a right? I won't get nothing but a bill, my healthcare won't change except maybe get worse! Why is it people don't understand working people pay the bills of government and there is no free lunch for us! What happens when we have had enough and refuse to pay your bills anymore! I don't get the thought of freeloading! Do Americans even have pride anymore or are they just all waiting in line with their hand out? Look if you want government healthcare why not just send your money to the government and let them care for you, and allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! You want free healthcare for you and double priced heathcare for me right? yeah that's the truth and nobody wants to admit it! Unless you actually beleive the government will make it cheaper! But I can't beleive anyone buys that lie! So which is it? Do you beleive government will make it cheaper or do you want other citizens to pay your share? It makes me sick to hear someone from Calif talk this way. There are 49 other states whose citizens already carry your bill on our taxes. How many bail outs has Calif received from the Fed government anyway? I make good money and have great insurance. I say HC is a right of all humans. Not just Americans but all humans, but then I am not self centered and have humanity. If you have a job and good health quit your bitching. A lot of people have neither. Be grateful for what you do have and get a little humanity in your soul. First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!! I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period! Here's the thing too, with a lot of these government level charities and stuff, how do you know where your money is going? How do you know all that money is going where they say it is? You don't. Take the various cancer charities for example, they've been asking for money year after year after year forever to find a "cure", yet where is it? I don't see one do you? Really there are already things in nature that can cure it but they'll never tell you because then they'd lose all their money in donations and treatment costs every year. It's all about the money, and that's what a lot of these charities tend to boil down to. It's one of the biggest scams out there, they pull on the heartstrings, make it seem like they care about this or that, and then pocket the money from the gullible who fall for it while the problems still persist. You want to make change? Do it on a local grassroots level, where you can see where your money is going, where your time is going, where you can feel the difference you are making. That's where real change is gonna come from, from us, not from them. Further, part of the problem we have right now with the economic system is we tend to reward those who do nothing to help themselves, more so than those that actually do. It stifles creativity and hard work, when you can get more from unemployment benefits then you can get from an actual job. They want us reliant on them, don't you see this? Considering that our government does not reward those who do nothing more than those who do stuff. Unemployment is paid into for the very reason that people end up having times of unemployment. It is a safety net for those WHO WORK go figure. The attitude of some in this country that the poor are poor by their own making is one of our countries greatest disappointments. Many many people go from welfare/foodstamps/etc... to upstanding citizens who give back to this country. There are some on these very boards. It is a very ugly generalization in my opinion. Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought! You need to review what you wrote because it didn't make any sense. Unemployment is a safety net for working people. Employers pay into it for that reason. sorry that is incorrect! it is an imposed tax upon employers but it was not designed as a safety net for the employee it's a safety net for the employer! but no use pionting out facts i guess! |
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Why not... allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! Not really... if you get sick, the other people pay for you. actually thats incorrect because i have health insurance so i'm not a good example! Your missing the point i'm not saying opt out of health coverage! Opt out of government imposed healthcare and not pay any taxes into it! So you are already part of such a system. You pay 40% extra to keep the big insurance company pay its employees, and make the shareholders rich. If you and everyone else switched to the government healthcare, then the overall percent of savings will be 40% for the nation. Since you say you already pay about 50% of the national average, then you'll have to pay another extra 10%. That means, if your monthly health insurance bill is $50, then you will start paying $55 from here on. That's bad, I guess, that extra $5 to ensure everyone in your contry and community gets a good deal. If you paid that extra $5 a month, you would stop needing to ask yourself for a while, "Ask myself what I can do for my country." lol if that was true i would "buy" the problem is it is completely inaccurate! The cost will double and i will pay $100.00 and if i wanted communism i could move to Cuba they actually have good healthcare. It's not a point of helping others it's the point of free enterprise and living in a republic! SO call me a baby killer all you want but you know what the capitolist system is far more charitable because it works and the failed idelology of socialism is far less charitable cause it fails! So even though your rhetoric may sound more humane in the real world and history shows it is actually far less humane! |
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Why not... allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! Not really... if you get sick, the other people pay for you. I mean, you make it sound like the gov is putting a gun into your mouth, and they say "buddy, you are paying for everyone else's medical costs, and that's that. They won't pay for yours." Is it how you imagine it's going to be? You see, 10% of Americans are bankrupted by medical bills, in a given period. Beyond bankrupt. If everyone pays 10% more taxes in the same period, not anybody will go bankrupt for medical reasons. And the beauty is that anyone can go bankrupt at the current system; only 10% do, coz they get really expensive illnesses. The beauty of the policy is that NOBODY KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME WHO GET THE EXPENSIVE SICKNESS. As easy as doing no. 2. in bed. LMAO no your right no one will go bankrupt for medical bills the entire country will! 
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Why not... allow me to opt out? I tell you why cause you want me to pay for you! That's what this is really about! Not really... if you get sick, the other people pay for you. I mean, you make it sound like the gov is putting a gun into your mouth, and they say "buddy, you are paying for everyone else's medical costs, and that's that. They won't pay for yours." Is it how you imagine it's going to be? You see, 10% of Americans are bankrupted by medical bills. Beyond bankrupt. If everyone pays 10$ more taxes, not anybody will go bankrupt for medical reasons. well i dont know where u get your math but it is far from credible even if they did as they promised! They wont come thru just like social security! Point one is we have a right to say no, point two is it's far more than you say even the dems are admiting that now, point three is they won't deliver and have no credibilty! And the beauty is that anyone can go bankrupt at the current system; only 10% do, coz they get really expensive illnesses. The beauty of the policy is that NOBODY KNOWS AHEAD OF TIME WHO GET THE EXPENSIVE SICKNESS. As easy as doing no. 2. in bed. |
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