actually thats incorrect because i have health insurance so i'm not a good example! Your missing the point i'm not saying opt out of health coverage! Opt out of government imposed healthcare and not pay any taxes into it!

Actually you are incorrect unemployment originally paid no money at all and years later they incorporated handing out checks and the argument then was to keep the economy from from freezing up like in the thirties. It was never proposed as or designed as a safety net for the employee. I hate to say it but you are actually often factually incorrct! You really need to create your own thought!

I don't understand why people hate this woman i personally like her. Politically i loathe her though.....She is not a statesperson IMO. She can do great at the state level or below, but federal politics is out of her league i think.

I think the symbolism of this healthcare vote better not be all these tea partiers bring! I want real fundamnetal change and if they don't start firing government employees and shutting down government agencies wholesale they won't last! Americans want results and no more brass cows! If you want social programs fine show results or get the axe! Reach across the aisle and make some consessions with the democrats and say you want programs fine but we want results! The rhetoric needs to stop on both sides and the politicians need to realize americans are getting smarter and starting to pay attention. Just blocking attempts for the president to get business done for the american people is bad business and the democrats need to learn people are not buying there rhetoric anymore. You want money for programs step up and put a plan in place that shows results for the money we invest! Not the current system like the department of education! The divide is huge and they better get to work and start solving problems or they are just as bad in my opinion!

yeah actually i had no intention on refering to the whole bin laden thing. I was only commenting on there was no other argument... Not that i care about the sarcasm just not very good language in a debate if you want to enlighten others!

Have to say I am a conservative but i do not agree with Government intrusion! We currently house 10's of thousands of inmates for merely possesing drugs, they fill our court systems and cost us billions. I beleive in the greater good argument and know drugs do harm to our communities but our focus should be on the pushers not the users.

Very simply msharmony by taxation! The size of the U.S. GDP last i looked was at 16 trillion annually! This is about twice the chinese and far more than any other country! Yet the american Governmant tells us they need to increase taxes just to pay the bills! The bills are the problem! Now 1/6 of that total figure needs to be handed to the U.S. government just for americans can afford basic services is the ideal right? The government will then have control of a large portion of the GDP overnight! The leap of faith and i will grant for sake of argument it is a leap of faith to a point. The leap of faith is that Government can not handle that kind of power! I contend this is what our founders did not want and their fears of governmental control is coming true. In my opinion the very essence of Freedom comes from small unintrusive government! I see this as a form of socialism just packaged nicely to get it thru then the true intent of this bill will slide down the slope into true socialized medicine in years to come. I disagree with it as an american and want it repealed along with the education system, IRS and many other government agencies that are bloated and out of control! But it's time we take back the taxes and start shutting the doors on government agencies! Lets fire government! I can give you a perfect example, the department of education. Do we really need them anymore? I mean beyond the school house what do all those people do in that huge building filled with employees? 1,000's of workers doing what? do they educate 1 child? why do we need them? the list goes on and on!

I am gonna try and make an example of real world issues for the misinformed and uninformed to understand! As i disagree with how we ran the Iraq war and such many Americans miss the point! If i was a business man that did business locally in my community i would have many patrons and contracts and such. My goal is to bring money home to my family! Well America does the same worldwide yet there are many contributing factors and backroom deals! American investment into other countries for raw material is an everyday business to keep our country strong! So if you think that we will let other countries take our investments away from us your uninformed! Iraq was not playing ball! They attempted to block oil coming from kuwait into America as well as other economic sabotage. The same as me collecting a debt from a customer that refuses to pay! America is involved in other countries because we have interest in those countries! Politicians never openly admit this becuase it's bad for there political career. But the bottom line is in a global economy every country in the world must play ball! If America did not do this dirty work we would pay a price cause trust me russia and china would. So before sitting on a high horse understand what your trully saying "isolationism" Because if you beleive we can play the game of world diplomacy honestly you have your head in the sand! We can play by a set of rules and then enforce those rules behind the scenes which i think America does quite well! SO is the war about oil? Ofcourse it is but if the truth be told this is an evil that is a reality within world politics today! We have no choice but to play in this game of world politics and i may not agree with every decision i do want my diplomats to win this war of global economics ! So all saddam had to do was set up trade with the world and play by the rules. He chose not to and sold oil under the table to china, russia, even france got in on it. The french disallowed american planes to fly over remember? I wonder why??? These type tatics continued and continued! Hurting the American people economically! Ofcourse America as well uses tatics to hurt other countries economically, so it's not like we don't do it! ALl countries do it, just depends which team your on, and i'm on the american team so give em hell America!

Well i see your point however i am not a chinese citizen and yes i am for my team "America"! The chinese have been running a trade deficit for how many years? I am a conservative but i part ways when it comes to china! We need to do more to balance trade with china and bring manufacturing back to America!

lol....tax breaks to the rich? You act like your entitled to the rich mans money! Tax breaks to all americans rich and poor! Tax cuts across the board and shrink government! They take enough money from the rich or upper class! I don't think a rich man is a bad man, on the contrary they are usually very honest, hard working and compassionate people! I don't beleive the lie that because your rich your a bad person and you should have to pay far more in taxes!

Actually i made a very clear argument in this post! When facts hit the table you just repeat the same old thing! Dont you care about the poor little babies? If you don't give me a gazillion dollars to spend on my new jet how will the babies get healthcare! The facts remain clear, government anything is an utter failure and always will be!

%Different governments today use a variety of government systems, communism, democracy, monarchy etc.... Does this mean there is a monopoly on thought? I don't think because Obama meets with one idealogical thinker he prescribes to every principal of thought that man beleives. This works in reverse as well so when you try and use guilt by association it's ignorant! The cheif reason for gridlock today as well partisan politics! We need solutions and good ideas come from both sides of the aisle, just 94% from the right!

actually it was eisenhowser and every pres since has had their hands in it! So your off by about 5 presidents and clinton used ssa funds to give the perception of a balnaced budget which was a farse. But you bring up exactly my point! ssa could have worked had they followed the rules right? WHat makes you think they are telling the truth this time with heathcare? They are not and it is a farse like every other social program, just a money grab by greedy politicians! The entire point of realists! The reason for federalism early in our founding was exactly for this reason. Government is inherently evil and always will be! Man can not be trusted with this kind of power and with healthcare representing about 3 trillion plus it is far beyond the ability of government to be trusted with! It goes directly against the founding principals of America and if you actually study history this is not even debatable. The only thing an honest historian can debate is if our founders where correct! The principal founders studied the different forms of government of the previous centuries and devolped a hybrid Republic system that has worked better than any system known to man! Those principals have slowly been taken away from our governmental system due to power grabs! We resemble a democracy more and more each year and the reason the founders where against a democracy was they beleived in rights all men should posses regardless of majority opinion and political manipulation! Reading the constitution, bill of rights and so forth without digging into history leaves you at a great disadvantage! Our founders knew that checks and balances had to be put in place for the growth of our country and the chief thought in mind in my opinion is "how do you create a system that can withtand corruption and the power remain in the peoples hand"! Well you see social security is a perfect example! This idea by FDR went against the principal's of small government and as the founders predicted failed miserably! It's the idea that's the issue it is the balance of power that must remain in effect or government will gain so much power liberty will no longer exsist. So now we are deeply in debt and governemnt is huge beyond compare! Then i actually hear Americans tell me healthcare is the solution? The healthcare bill represents the nail in the coffin of a American dream! If we do not repeal it Americans will no longer be free and completely reliant on government! Please try and look at the big picture! Try to think with your mind and not your emotions!

Jeez you missed the point again! The point was "conjur"! I did not conjur anything based on media! My opinion of failed government is based on history, My opinion of this bill infringing on my liberties is because it does! democrats quoting "it's a start" insinuating that with time we will get government healthcare is why i conjur. refering to other countries with government healthcare as examples is another reason i conjur! nah! nah! this is not scare mongering this is a democratic agenda with a track record that i have seen with my own two eyes! So this article can double speak all it wants and say the repubs framed the message to say "government takeover" but the last i checked social security is not an option and it's broke! Now you want to sell me government healthcare? Not this time Buddy!

uhhhhh really! WOW!


ECONOMICS 101



Term: Unfunded Liabilities

definition: liabilities not yet funded.

LMAO!

Expenditures + unfunded liabilities = Oh crap we are Trillions in the red!

SS tax or as you said " Income" - Expenditures = 190 billion toward 1 gazillion in unfunded liabilities = oh crap we are short a gazillion dollars!

Geez the lack of understanding is incredible!

Okay this was laughable! Did you say ss turns a profit? Come on! Really? Is it even possible someone can actually beleive a government agency turns a profit? They have community colleges that teach economics and basic economics would be of great help to you!

Again pure idealology and not based upon real world conditions, as well as history! We tried this remember the 1980's and ronald reagan? It only incouraged more illegal immigration! The issue is a corrupt Mexican government and slack American law enforcement! Why the American governmnt has failed to act is on both sides of the aisle on this issue. A right wing "pro farmers that want cheap labor" and a left wing "we feel bad for poor mexicans so lets exploit them for votes" kinda deal going on! The loser is an exploited mexican illegal without true citizenship and the American worker flipping the bill! It is a bad idea and will not work! All we need to do is begin arresting people who employ illegals and deporting the ones we find breaking the law with stringent diplomacy with Mexico on the issue of corruption and aide! Not a problem that will be solved over night but remove the incentive and they will leave on their own!

At first i wondered why the left wingers called us tea-baggers and then i figured it out! I was watching my son play a video game and it was one of those war games. Well after he killed one of the other players he actually got his character to tea-bag the dead player. Then it came to me! Liberals feel this way! They feel as if we are mounted over them grinding our junk in their face....lol wow what a demoralizing feeling! So if i am a tea-bagger, i guess it's better than being the tea-baggee...poor liberals! So if you are a liberal I tea-bagged i'm sorry! Next time i will try and be gentle!

First off, makes me sick that california sucks off the fed too, I have said it in other posts! Doesn't mean all californians suck off the system and assuming all californians do is bigoted and inaccuarate!!!

I make good money as well, have great health insurance and your missing the point! Just because i am against a system that promises healthcare to the poor doesn't mean i am wrong! Oh yes, your rhetoric makes it seem this way but the reality is this sir! The promise won't be kept! Do you get that? I mean really do you get that? Can't i beleive that it's another lie by breuracrats to suck money into and endless pit that will be nothing but dysfunction? Can't you see that it's not about helping the poor? Really think about it! These programs fail because as nobal as your intentions may be sir that history and reality dictate otherwise! It's rhetoric! They don't give a damn about the poor and will only put in place a front and the problem will not be solved! That's the opinion of the realist! Not that we don't want to help, just that we know from years of getting it in the blank with no grease that its all rhetoric and the people won't receive what promised! Not evreything is a right left issue there is a reality to politics! It's a farse and the American people know it! Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

Be grateful for what I have? Really sir? Your damn right i'm grateful, grateful for having free speech! And when politicians and their drones tell me shut up and sit down I say hell no! I'm not bitching about helping others, i'm bitching about a farse that is sold as helping the poor that is really a money grab for a failed idealolgy! Don't you get that communism doesn't work? Does not history show this? Ofcourse it does and nationalized healthcare no matter how you slice it is a form of communism and that's only half the problem! It is also being handed to an overbloated, dysfuntional, failed, pathetic beauracracy! So understand the point when people speak it! Utopia although a great idea, it remains just that, an "idea" and in the real world where i live promises from government to help the poor little women and children is just a ploy on my sympathy to get me in the prone position and ready to spread my cheeks! So yes, your damn right i demand my liberty cause i know it is my god given right and i'm not saying sorry for it! I know with liberty I have a check and balance on government and i'm not willing to trade it for a promise of free healthcare! And giving a crackhead free crack is not humane! Throwing money at problems does not work! IF you want to trully help the poor your gonna have to get your hands dirty! Thinking that throwing five bucks in the hat is a fix is absurd! The programs out there that trully work come with money yes but in addition they have tough love and if your honest about this you will see that! Government does not acomplish that task and it never will because of the size of it! these things must be acomplished at the local level period!


So before casting judgements at people about their views on an issue understand there is a goal to be acheived right? I may not be against the goal just how you go about acheiving it! I do not beleive Government is the way to acheive healthcare reform! Can you understand that? So assuming i'm not for helping the poor is offensive and inaccurate! I'm not for helping the lazy labeled the poor thru an overbloated beuracracy! Now if i beleived Obama was a saint sent by god and politicians only had the peoples interst in mind then maybe????? LMAO! Always a strawman argument! Sheeeessshhh!

I think many are missing the point here! Point one was liberty! How is it right for some citizens to impose their will upon others? If i have no option it is not American! Second is how will government fix it? One person said people against obamacare are uninformed. Really? But they phrased Obamacare as "healthcare reform". Look no one is against healthcare reform, just the current version of it in the form of Obamacare. Healthcare reform can come thru regulation without making it government healthcare! One more point, to refer to democracies or socialist sytems as an example is inaccurate We are a Republic, if you want a different form of government go there! As long as we are a republic i have rights that can not be voted away! You can try but in the end the supreme court has the last say! So when you force me to opt into a system i disagree it is another errosion of my civil liberties! The only argument the so called "INFORMED" person as stated can make is for the better good. To do so i think you need eveidence and supporting facts it is just that! I do not feel the democrats made their case for that at all! On the contrary the republicans have proved the math doesn't add up and this bill infringes on my civil liberties! So agree or disagree if you are informed you need to make your argument make sense! So please if your going to state uninformed know your stuff!