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So go on...keep it up....and continue to try and make me look bad. It rolls off my shoulders. Because I know my heart. I know what I truly believe. I know when I am wrong. I always try and make it right when I do wrong. Kat I'm not trying to make you look bad... I'm trying to point out that you are trying to make others look bad ...this is a debating site so why are you gripping when people do it ... because some people on this site choose not to agree with your beliefs and choose to challenge them you are trying to make it like they are evil or arguing Funches: Where in this thread did I do that? I was simply stating that some here will not leave well enough alone and let sleeping dogs lie. And I never attack anyone. Where did I try and make someone look bad? Not that thing about Borack again? That is a dead issue. I have never ever spread that agian. I deleted that thing and reasponded with the correct measures to all that had received it from the one that sent it to me. I'm through with that wrong. It has been taken care of. Gone....poof....out of my mind as well as my pc. Leave it alone will ya? Have you never made a mistake? Have you ever been forgiven for it? For heavens sake man...let it go. Do I need to ask "you" for forgiveness? Okay then...funches, please forgive me my transgressions. I am fallable. I am not perfect. Kat Kat |
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I am human. I disagree with your beliefs but respect them. If I have questions concerning your beliefs I will ask them and then I will shut up and ponder your answers. I will not attack your beliefs..... I will simply agree to disagree The thing of it is, is that it’s not about individuals or what they think they believe. Christians will say things like “Jesus is the only way”, moreover they imply that anyone who refuses to accept this is, at best, spiritually lost, and at worst, actually choosing to side with demonic forces. That’s hardly an attitude of “Agreeing to disagree”. That’s an attitude of “We’re right and everyone else is wrong!” Moreover, when people preachthis idea that “Jesus saves, and is the God of Gods”, it’s only natural to point out the flaws associated with that myth. After all, the book is available to everyone, Christians don’t have exclusive rights to the book. If Christians are so bent on trying to convince everyone that the Bible is true, then everyone else has precisely the same right to explain why they fell the Bible can’t be true. It’s not about what individuals would like to believe. If they want to believe something let them believe it. As soon as they start posting those beliefs in an open public forum like as if they are absolute truths then everyone else has a right to post why they feel that doctrine has flaws. The whole argument that to point out flaws in an ancient doctrine is ‘bashing’ a religions or other people’s beliefs is an invalid argument. I post my concerns all the time, yet no one has every addressed them on a rational level. All they do is start screaming personal insult and injury. Clearly I make such good points that they can’t rebut them. So they use distraction tactics claiming personal foul, and injury. If they have rational reasonable answer they should just post them. All they keep coming back with it that it’s a matter of faith and no one can know God through logic. In other words, they are fully aware that their beliefs are unreasonable, yet they cling to them in spite of that fact. I never address the individual “Christians”, I always address the issues. It doesn’t matter what the individual “Christians” believe. If they don’t believe what the Bible says then they are kidding themselves. If they do believe what the Bible says then they should be able to explain why they believe it using reason. To just say, ‘It’s a matter of faith’ is to admit that it makes no sense to them either. No one can answer my questions,… Why were the original angels unhappy with God’s perfect heaven in the first place? Clearly they didn’t think it was so perfect. Is the very idea of perfection merely a subjective ideal? How could angels be unhappy with perfection? Also, why would a supposedly all-wise, and all-loving God need to have gruesome blood sacrifices made to him before he can forgive sins? That doesn’t even begin to make any reasonable sense to me. An all-wise and all-loving God could have surely come up with something less gruesome for man’s repentance. This whole story just reeks of the kinds of things that superstitious men would make up, and makes absolutely no sense at all with respect to a supposedly all-loving, all-wise, perfect God. I don’t see why anyone should be personally insulted by these very legitimate questions. Especially when they are so bent on proselytizing these superstitious beliefs onto others. Then try this on for size: If someone says something that you disagree with, discuss it with him/her. Do you argue about grocery prices with the mail man? Argue with a cop because you got a ticket from some other cop? You paint all Christians with the same narrow minded brush and it speaks volumes for your true intentions. 
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Not that thing about Borack again? That is a dead issue. Borack? ... sorry I didn't watch that movie Have you never made a mistake? Have you ever been forgiven for it? and that is why you shouldn't be on this site complaining ..this is a debating site ..anytime there is more than one point of view it will seem like an argument ...that is the nature of the forum and that is human nature ...which means if you don't want anyone to disagree with your beliefs then maybe you should think about not expressing them to anyone that you think may disagree with them |
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Edited by
scttrbrain
on
Sun 05/18/08 10:20 AM
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Not that thing about Borack again? That is a dead issue. Borack? ... sorry I didn't watch that movie Have you never made a mistake? Have you ever been forgiven for it? and that is why you shouldn't be on this site complaining ..this is a debating site ..anytime there is more than one point of view it will seem like an argument ...that is the nature of the forum and that is human nature ...which means if you don't want anyone to disagree with your beliefs then maybe you should think about not expressing them to anyone that you think may disagree with them Okay...so I spelled his name wrong. I thought I did from the beginning.So what... What was I complaining about funches?? I am trying to find it. I cannot even find anything remotely close to complaining in this thread except where I was referring to someone getting someone thrown off due to personal issues. By calling them out. When it comes to the religion threads I give my beliefs and my opinions as to why I believe and how I continue to support them. Where is that complaining or forcing my beliefes on anyone?? Excuse me?? I welcome all beliefs. I accept all for what they believe. Who they are. I have many friends that do not have my system in beliefs of the God kind. On this site as well. Doesn't keep me from loving them and trying to understand their ways. Or them mine. I do not try to make people believe as I do. I simply tell why I do. Does that make an argument? I don't think so. There several people on here that absolutely do not believe in God or the bible. And they are my friends. Kat |
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...get tired of debating on religion, and never come to any understanding. I'm one of the most passionate debaters on here (at least i feel it that way), but honestly I feel so tired. It's always going and going in circles without an ending. I need a little bit of time off. This might be the source of your headaches. You are a good guy, even though we disagree. You feel passionately about your beliefs and this forum isn't a game to you. You are one of the few who isn't here to offend or waste time. Enjoy your time off.  Why can't people just be happy with their beliefs? Why do they have to go around trying to convince others? Why do they hold on so tightly? Why are they afraid of asking the hard questions? What if everybody is completely wrong? JB  But I know I am right for me 
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Not that thing about Borack again? That is a dead issue. Borack? ... sorry I didn't watch that movie Have you never made a mistake? Have you ever been forgiven for it? and that is why you shouldn't be on this site complaining ..this is a debating site ..anytime there is more than one point of view it will seem like an argument ...that is the nature of the forum and that is human nature ...which means if you don't want anyone to disagree with your beliefs then maybe you should think about not expressing them to anyone that you think may disagree with them Okay...so I spelled his name wrong. I thought I did from the beginning.So what... What was I complaining about funches?? I am trying to find it. I cannot even find anything remotely close to complaining in this thread except where I was referring to someone getting someone thrown off due to personal issues. By calling them out. When it comes to the religion threads I give my beliefs and my opinions as to why I believe and how I continue to support them. Where is that complaining or forcing my beliefes on anyone?? Excuse me?? I welcome all beliefs. I accept all for what they believe. Who they are. I have many friends that do not have my system in beliefs of the God kind. On this site as well. Doesn't keep me from loving them and trying to understand their ways. Or them mine. I do not try to make people believe as I do. I simply tell why I do. Does that make an argument? I don't think so. There several people on here that absolutely do not believe in God or the bible. And they are my friends. Kat The only time I find myself getting antagonistic is when people threaten me with their hell. I don't like to be threatened. Other than that I can discuss it logically. That does not mean others will like my logic but I discuss logically. |
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Edited by
wouldee
on
Sun 05/18/08 11:01 AM
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Not that thing about Borack again? That is a dead issue. Borack? ... sorry I didn't watch that movie Have you never made a mistake? Have you ever been forgiven for it? and that is why you shouldn't be on this site complaining ..this is a debating site ..anytime there is more than one point of view it will seem like an argument ...that is the nature of the forum and that is human nature ...which means if you don't want anyone to disagree with your beliefs then maybe you should think about not expressing them to anyone that you think may disagree with them funches. this is a forum for many religious discussions. It is not a debating site, per se. Granted, any is free to adopt any premise for involving oneself in any discussion in this particular forum. But the prerequisite of consistent contrarian and argumentative displays by any one user is always annoying to many other users of any personal persuasion. Without reducing this to a semantical contrivance, it is an open forum which can be entertained as a supportive and affirming venue for those so embracing such a hope for this forum platform and venue. It would be welcome to many that overt and covert agendas meant to debilitate an affirmation or expression of joy be met with silence and restraint from those so inclined to interject their contempt of other points of view. Many, if not all, topics in these threads can be uplifting and instructive and articulate in their premise without the attendant strife and contention from differing viewpoints that find necessity for being in maligning focus and momentum in a contrarian light for the very ease and liberty of such a stance as the ones intended to be disruptive by their very tenor do tend to display of themselves. I find that there is a prevalent demeanor present in these threads to be deliberately disruptive and argumentative that is not necessarily productive for espousing and deseminating constructive thought. Mutual respect and dignity is not afforded its due at all times; Nor shall it find itself being the case permanently. Self governance issues are inclusively relevant to the heart of religious endeavor and benevolence is a constructive means for forwarding such affirmations. But then, that is the rub. Impositions of personal will wear a path easily marking the trail of the destination travelled to, (this way and that), by each . This forum need not be sequestered and narrowly confine itself to incessant debate. Even so, the prevalence of such discourses as debate is inescapably incumbent upon the prejudices we all hold. But exclusively so? Even the belly rejoices in a well balanced diet. learn, grow and be at peace.  
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Edited by
Jeanniebean
on
Sun 05/18/08 11:27 AM
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if you are tired of debating then what the heck are you doing in a debating forum ...do you also go to the grocery store to complain that they sell groceries ...and people wonder why I use the word delusional I have to agree with Funches on this point. If people don't want to debate religion why do they bother going to a religion discussion forum in the first place? It seems silly to me. Like he says, it would be like going to a grocery store and complaining that you're sick and tired of the fact that they sell groceries. It's utterly ridiculous. the problem James is when the groceries are rotten. so rethink your concept of utterly ridiculous/ People just can't take the heat of a debate or argument and then it degrades to insults. You can't expect everyone to play nice nice happy happy joy joy all the time. I prefer honest. I don't take things so personal. I understand people get passionate about things. That doesn't bother me. I would just like to get to know the them for who they are not for how nice they can pretend to be. That is their fake persona. I don't like fake persona's, they aren't real. People just need to be real and try to maintain their calm. JB Therein lies a portion of the problem JB. Do you find people incapable of being genuinely nice? **************************************************** No I don't. In fact I think Feralcatlady and Morningsong are very nice. We have agreed to disagree. I have no problem with them although we don't share the same beliefs. **************************************************** Your cynical view of Christians will not allow you to see the good in people, mainly Christians, as I don't see you disagreeing with anyone so vehemently with anyone but them. *********************************************** I have no problems with Christians. They are people. I have a problem with the doctrine of Christianity which is varied, confusing and very possibly fraudulent. That is what I argue and question. I debate assertions and statements of fact that I believe are false an I present my reasons. I don't bash people. I challenge what I believe is false doctrines especially when they are in my face all the time and peddled as truth. I have debated with both non-Christians and Christians, so you are wrong in suggesting that I only argue with Christians. ***************************************************** In fact I don't see you demeaning anyone else's thoughts. You simply cannot agree to disagree with Christians. I am real. I am human. I disagree with your beliefs but respect them. If I have questions concerning your beliefs I will ask them and then I will shut up and ponder your answers. I will not attack your beliefs..... I will simply agree to disagree. ************************************************ I have agreed to disagree with many people on these forums, so you don't know what you are talking about. I will however, debate assertions and lies for what they are when they are given to me as truth or fact, and I will ask hard questions. ***************************************************** I will read your entire post and respond in toto if needed but will not quote one single sentence in order to bolster my continual bashing while patting myself on the back as some do here to make themselves feel superior to others. If they have a Napoleon complex it is their issue and I have pity for them. Too many people here ask questions not for the views of others but to demean their answers when they are given. ******************************************************* I ask questions to see if anyone really has any reasonable answers to support what they boldly proclaim as truth. So far, I have found that no one does. Now, Star-tin, I don't know why you have a beef with me, I don't recall ever getting into any debate with you. If I did, please refresh my memory. I keep running across posts where you seem to be personally accusing me of things that simply are not true. What would you have me do? Stop posting in the religion thread altogether? Stop questioning? Just let me know what you would have me do. I have made peace with several Christians on this club, and I do my best to state my case and my questions clearly and politely. If I have offended you please tell me or quote where that happened and I will see if I can figure out what is bothering you. JB |
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funches. this is a forum for many religious discussions. It is not a debating site, per se. "per se" is a term people used instead of saying that they just lied also in case you didn't know "wouldee" having a religious discussion mean having a religious debate ...or do you want to debate that fact....oops I meant discuss that fact Granted, any is free to adopt any premise for involving oneself in any discussion in this particular forum. well one wouldn't think that if they entered into this forum But the prerequisite of consistent contrarian and argumentative displays by any one user is always annoying to many other users of any personal persuasion. you mean something like what you are doing right now This forum need not be sequestered and narrowly confine itself to incessant debate. so how many minutes do we get to have incessant debates oh great wouldee the forum god?...or do we have to e-mail our posts to you so you can read and edit the amount of "incessant" in them before we post them "wouldee" stop trying to make more trouble before I tell Jesus on you |
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He already knows, my friend.
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Funches, you are hilarious to me.
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He already knows, my friend. then "wouldee" show Jesus some love ...by not trying to silence others as others tried to silence him ... |
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((((Funches))))
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You paint all Christians with the same narrow minded brush and it speaks volumes for your true intentions. I don't paint any Christians with any brush. That's where you are totally mistaken. I address an ancient mythology that is written in a book. I’m open to all interpretations and explanation. However, if people start saying things like, “It’s just a matter of having faith”, or “You can’t get to God through logic” then I totally dismiss those comments as they offer nothing knew. I’m only interested in reason. If people have no reason for why they believe something other than it’s because they choose to believe it, then they may as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster as far as I’m concerned. I ask specific question, and a approach the topic from a rational point of view. I’m a scientist and I don’t mind pointing that out. If I wanted to believe things on pure faith perhaps I would have become a preacher instead. I believe that God is reasonable. If other people want to believe that God is unreasonable more power to them. Just don’t try to expect me to believe that on faith alone without any reasons to back it up. So, yes, if dismissing unreasonable people is being narrow-minded then I’ll gladly confess that I am very narrow-minded. If you can’t explain yourself via reason then you have no explanation to offer as far as I’m concerned. The point is that if proselytizers expect to sell, then they better be able to back up their product with reason, otherwise I just continue to explain why I’m not buying. I look at the entire picture from a purely pragmatic point of view. If these people want to be humored and given a pat on the back they should go to a church forum where like-minded people will support the myth without asking the tough questions. There are plenty of those sites around. |
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uhhhh yes...I agree! The reason for my absence in these threads for many months ... ..er...."artgurl" are you sure it's not because "creativesoul" left the forum He didn't leave the forum ... he was away and now he is too busy with the move ... he'll be back when he gets settled I am sure ...I haven't posted much here for many months funches the point is how many times were you complaining about arguing when creativesoul was having his battle royales with "JennieBean" and "Feralcatlady" And what exactly is your point Funches? I was pretty much out of the religion threads by the time creative started posting. What your comment has to do with my support of the OP is unclear. Nice red herring though
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if you are tired of debating then what the heck are you doing in a debating forum ...do you also go to the grocery store to complain that they sell groceries ...and people wonder why I use the word delusional I have to agree with Funches on this point. If people don't want to debate religion why do they bother going to a religion discussion forum in the first place? It seems silly to me. Like he says, it would be like going to a grocery store and complaining that you're sick and tired of the fact that they sell groceries. It's utterly ridiculous. the problem James is when the groceries are rotten. so rethink your concept of utterly ridiculous/ People just can't take the heat of a debate or argument and then it degrades to insults. You can't expect everyone to play nice nice happy happy joy joy all the time. I prefer honest. I don't take things so personal. I understand people get passionate about things. That doesn't bother me. I would just like to get to know the them for who they are not for how nice they can pretend to be. That is their fake persona. I don't like fake persona's, they aren't real. People just need to be real and try to maintain their calm. JB Therein lies a portion of the problem JB. Do you find people incapable of being genuinely nice? **************************************************** No I don't. In fact I think Feralcatlady and Morningsong are very nice. We have agreed to disagree. I have no problem with them although we don't share the same beliefs. **************************************************** Your cynical view of Christians will not allow you to see the good in people, mainly Christians, as I don't see you disagreeing with anyone so vehemently with anyone but them. *********************************************** I have no problems with Christians. They are people. I have a problem with the doctrine of Christianity which is varied, confusing and very possibly fraudulent. That is what I argue and question. I debate assertions and statements of fact that I believe are false an I present my reasons. I don't bash people. I challenge what I believe is false doctrines especially when they are in my face all the time and peddled as truth. I have debated with both non-Christians and Christians, so you are wrong in suggesting that I only argue with Christians. ***************************************************** In fact I don't see you demeaning anyone else's thoughts. You simply cannot agree to disagree with Christians. I am real. I am human. I disagree with your beliefs but respect them. If I have questions concerning your beliefs I will ask them and then I will shut up and ponder your answers. I will not attack your beliefs..... I will simply agree to disagree. ************************************************ I have agreed to disagree with many people on these forums, so you don't know what you are talking about. I will however, debate assertions and lies for what they are when they are given to me as truth or fact, and I will ask hard questions. ***************************************************** I will read your entire post and respond in toto if needed but will not quote one single sentence in order to bolster my continual bashing while patting myself on the back as some do here to make themselves feel superior to others. If they have a Napoleon complex it is their issue and I have pity for them. Too many people here ask questions not for the views of others but to demean their answers when they are given. ******************************************************* I ask questions to see if anyone really has any reasonable answers to support what they boldly proclaim as truth. So far, I have found that no one does. Now, Star-tin, I don't know why you have a beef with me, I don't recall ever getting into any debate with you. If I did, please refresh my memory. I keep running across posts where you seem to be personally accusing me of things that simply are not true. What would you have me do? Stop posting in the religion thread altogether? Stop questioning? Just let me know what you would have me do. I have made peace with several Christians on this club, and I do my best to state my case and my questions clearly and politely. If I have offended you please tell me or quote where that happened and I will see if I can figure out what is bothering you. JB I don't have a beef with you JB. I was speaking of people in general. Sorry if you read it any other way. The initial part of my comments pertained to you. Yes, one can hold the banner high while screaming "I am fair and balanced" but if it doesn't work for FOX News either. I am simply pointing out the wolf in sheep's clothing in your delivery. My comment concerning agree to disagree pertained to you. The remainder was directed to others but if you feel the need to jump in with them then so be it. I would love to stick around on a Sunday and chew the fat with you all but my son and his fiancee are waiting at the theater. Happy happy joy joy.
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Edited by
star_tin_gover
on
Sun 05/18/08 12:34 PM
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You paint all Christians with the same narrow minded brush and it speaks volumes for your true intentions. I don't paint any Christians with any brush. That's where you are totally mistaken. I address an ancient mythology that is written in a book. I’m open to all interpretations and explanation. However, if people start saying things like, “It’s just a matter of having faith”, or “You can’t get to God through logic” then I totally dismiss those comments as they offer nothing knew. I’m only interested in reason. If people have no reason for why they believe something other than it’s because they choose to believe it, then they may as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster as far as I’m concerned. I ask specific question, and a approach the topic from a rational point of view. I’m a scientist and I don’t mind pointing that out. If I wanted to believe things on pure faith perhaps I would have become a preacher instead. I believe that God is reasonable. If other people want to believe that God is unreasonable more power to them. Just don’t try to expect me to believe that on faith alone without any reasons to back it up. So, yes, if dismissing unreasonable people is being narrow-minded then I’ll gladly confess that I am very narrow-minded. If you can’t explain yourself via reason then you have no explanation to offer as far as I’m concerned. The point is that if proselytizers expect to sell, then they better be able to back up their product with reason, otherwise I just continue to explain why I’m not buying. I look at the entire picture from a purely pragmatic point of view. If these people want to be humored and given a pat on the back they should go to a church forum where like-minded people will support the myth without asking the tough questions. There are plenty of those sites around. Bull Sh!t.  I can't believe I just wasted a few moments of my life reading that.
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Edited by
star_tin_gover
on
Sun 05/18/08 12:39 PM
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Sorry abra. That wasn't the kind Christian thing to say. What I really meant to say was....
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